[xwiki-devs] Edit Modes vs. Editors
Hi devs, While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors. An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is. An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor. The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties. If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors. What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor. So I think we should go in the following direction: * Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences * The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences) We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there. WDYT? Thanks, Marius
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu: Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form … So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”. There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this: * Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages) * Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain. So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile. I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though. WDYT? Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
Hi Marius, I globally agree with your vision, which is definitely more in line with the actual possibilities we have. However, if we follow it straight, we gonna have one feature dropped that I am pretty sure many users will miss. Currently, we have a special notion for contents, which is to edit it in WYSIWYG mode or Text Mode. This does not change your vision IMO, it just add one more concept, the editor kind: some editors are plain text oriented (wiki, WebIDE, ...), and others are WYSIWYG oriented (GWT, CK, ...). My vision would be to keep that kind as significant about editors, so that what you said so far about a single editors set would be true for two kind of editors set. So that I can choose in my profile my default plain text editor, my default WYSIWYG editor, and my default editor kind (the actual setting we have already). And in the edit menu, the proposal from Vincent could be reduced to providing a single direct link for your default kind of editor so to the default editor you have for that kind, but if for example you hold “shift” or “option/alt”, you would get the menu switched to the other kind and therefore your other default editor. This method will not work a touch/mobile device, but I doubt that it will be an issue. Other alternative to the menu switch, the menu always goes to your defaults, but you can switch between editor kinds from the editor page without losing information. This looks like the “source” tab of the GWT WYSIWYG, but using the true wiki editor in it and having the ability to start with it without load the WYSIWYG (I have never really understand why we had that hybrid source tab which compete with the wiki editor in the mind of a basic user). WDYT ? On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu:
Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form …
So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”.
There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this: * Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages) * Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain.
So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile.
I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO
+1 in general to the proposal with refinements from Vincent and Denis Going a bit more into details I would like that we associated those "Property Editors" extension points to xwiki-commons properties descriptors which essentially means associate to Java Type (and associated the existing xclass and xdocument fields to corresponding properties, for example we could use XDOM as the Type for document content and textarea allowing wiki content) so that we can start using them easily for the growing number of properties based modules (wiki macros parameters, filters parameters and in general anything that want to expose extensions parameters should use that probably). We will also need the corresponding extension system for "Property Displayers" (view side) for consistency (I think it's cleaner to separate edit and display and let an extension implement both if wanted). On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
I globally agree with your vision, which is definitely more in line with the actual possibilities we have. However, if we follow it straight, we gonna have one feature dropped that I am pretty sure many users will miss. Currently, we have a special notion for contents, which is to edit it in WYSIWYG mode or Text Mode.
This does not change your vision IMO, it just add one more concept, the editor kind: some editors are plain text oriented (wiki, WebIDE, ...), and others are WYSIWYG oriented (GWT, CK, ...).
My vision would be to keep that kind as significant about editors, so that what you said so far about a single editors set would be true for two kind of editors set. So that I can choose in my profile my default plain text editor, my default WYSIWYG editor, and my default editor kind (the actual setting we have already). And in the edit menu, the proposal from Vincent could be reduced to providing a single direct link for your default kind of editor so to the default editor you have for that kind, but if for example you hold “shift” or “option/alt”, you would get the menu switched to the other kind and therefore your other default editor. This method will not work a touch/mobile device, but I doubt that it will be an issue.
Other alternative to the menu switch, the menu always goes to your defaults, but you can switch between editor kinds from the editor page without losing information. This looks like the “source” tab of the GWT WYSIWYG, but using the true wiki editor in it and having the ability to start with it without load the WYSIWYG (I have never really understand why we had that hybrid source tab which compete with the wiki editor in the mind of a basic user).
WDYT ?
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu:
Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form …
So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”.
There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this: * Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages) * Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain.
So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile.
I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
To give a very simple example: * an extension provide a component with role PropertyEditor<org.xwiki.contrib.mymodule.MyClass> and default hint A little less simple example: * each editor that propose to deal with date implement PropertyEditor<java.util.Date> role with a unique hint * a configurable "default" PropertyEditor<java.util.Date> implementation is looking in your profile (then wiki configuration, etc) to see which editor you want to use and call it (at the end fallback on the first one found) And here is how we could implement what Denis wants: * a configurable "default" PropertyEditor<org.xwiki.rendering.block.XDOM> editor which allow the following ** choose the kind of editor you want * a configurable "wysiwyg" PropertyEditor<org.xwiki.rendering.block.XDOM> editor which allow the following ** choose the exact WYSIWYG editor you want * a configurable "text" PropertyEditor<org.xwiki.rendering.block.XDOM> editor which allow the following ** choose the exact text editor you want * have the following kind of structure for the hints of the actual XDOM editors: <kind>|<uniquehint>. Here are some examples: ** wysiwyg|CKEditor ** wysiwyg|GWT ** text|plain ** text|highlighted * it's easy to introduce any other kind of editor (voice ?) On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
+1 in general to the proposal with refinements from Vincent and Denis
Going a bit more into details I would like that we associated those "Property Editors" extension points to xwiki-commons properties descriptors which essentially means associate to Java Type (and associated the existing xclass and xdocument fields to corresponding properties, for example we could use XDOM as the Type for document content and textarea allowing wiki content) so that we can start using them easily for the growing number of properties based modules (wiki macros parameters, filters parameters and in general anything that want to expose extensions parameters should use that probably).
We will also need the corresponding extension system for "Property Displayers" (view side) for consistency (I think it's cleaner to separate edit and display and let an extension implement both if wanted).
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
I globally agree with your vision, which is definitely more in line with the actual possibilities we have. However, if we follow it straight, we gonna have one feature dropped that I am pretty sure many users will miss. Currently, we have a special notion for contents, which is to edit it in WYSIWYG mode or Text Mode.
This does not change your vision IMO, it just add one more concept, the editor kind: some editors are plain text oriented (wiki, WebIDE, ...), and others are WYSIWYG oriented (GWT, CK, ...).
My vision would be to keep that kind as significant about editors, so that what you said so far about a single editors set would be true for two kind of editors set. So that I can choose in my profile my default plain text editor, my default WYSIWYG editor, and my default editor kind (the actual setting we have already). And in the edit menu, the proposal from Vincent could be reduced to providing a single direct link for your default kind of editor so to the default editor you have for that kind, but if for example you hold “shift” or “option/alt”, you would get the menu switched to the other kind and therefore your other default editor. This method will not work a touch/mobile device, but I doubt that it will be an issue.
Other alternative to the menu switch, the menu always goes to your defaults, but you can switch between editor kinds from the editor page without losing information. This looks like the “source” tab of the GWT WYSIWYG, but using the true wiki editor in it and having the ability to start with it without load the WYSIWYG (I have never really understand why we had that hybrid source tab which compete with the wiki editor in the mind of a basic user).
WDYT ?
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu:
Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form …
So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”.
There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this: * Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages) * Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain.
So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile.
I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
Hi, I would make a distinction between these edit modes: 1. text/syntax/development modes and 2. user/visual modes. 1. is the "?editor=wiki" (we could rename it syntax/source/code). In the future we could replace the current one with an editor that has syntax highlight and other code enhancements. This mode would satisfy Vincent's use case for development. The customization should be done from User Profile / Administration. This will be available just for Advanced/Technical users in the 'Edit' submenu. 2. is the "?editor=wysiwyg" (we could rename it visual/content). In this category are all rich text editors intended for normal users: WYSIWYG, CKEditor, Realtime, etc. This should be the default of edit mode. This needs to have a separate configuration from the wiki mode (1). So the Edit menu would be: - "Edit" (default) - "Inline" - "Syntax" - "Objects" - "Class" I don't believe listing all visual editors is scalable and desirable by end-users. I believe the administration configuration is enough. But I agree we need an edit mode dedicated for development. So in User Profile, we would have: - User type: Simple (User) | Advanced (Developer) - Default Visual editor to use: WYSIWYG, CKEditor, etc. (with an extension point) - Default Syntax editor to use: Tiny MCE, Wiki (Default), etc. So my idea is keeping the distinction of development / visual modes (with better names) and having separate configurations for them. Thanks, Caty On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
To give a very simple example: * an extension provide a component with role PropertyEditor<org.xwiki.contrib.mymodule.MyClass> and default hint
A little less simple example: * each editor that propose to deal with date implement PropertyEditor<java.util.Date> role with a unique hint * a configurable "default" PropertyEditor<java.util.Date> implementation is looking in your profile (then wiki configuration, etc) to see which editor you want to use and call it (at the end fallback on the first one found)
And here is how we could implement what Denis wants: * a configurable "default" PropertyEditor<org.xwiki.rendering.block.XDOM> editor which allow the following ** choose the kind of editor you want * a configurable "wysiwyg" PropertyEditor<org.xwiki.rendering.block.XDOM> editor which allow the following ** choose the exact WYSIWYG editor you want * a configurable "text" PropertyEditor<org.xwiki.rendering.block.XDOM> editor which allow the following ** choose the exact text editor you want * have the following kind of structure for the hints of the actual XDOM editors: <kind>|<uniquehint>. Here are some examples: ** wysiwyg|CKEditor ** wysiwyg|GWT ** text|plain ** text|highlighted * it's easy to introduce any other kind of editor (voice ?)
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
+1 in general to the proposal with refinements from Vincent and Denis
Going a bit more into details I would like that we associated those "Property Editors" extension points to xwiki-commons properties descriptors which essentially means associate to Java Type (and associated the existing xclass and xdocument fields to corresponding properties, for example we could use XDOM as the Type for document content and textarea allowing wiki content) so that we can start using them easily for the growing number of properties based modules (wiki macros parameters, filters parameters and in general anything that want to expose extensions parameters should use that probably).
We will also need the corresponding extension system for "Property Displayers" (view side) for consistency (I think it's cleaner to separate edit and display and let an extension implement both if wanted).
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
I globally agree with your vision, which is definitely more in line with the actual possibilities we have. However, if we follow it straight, we gonna have one feature dropped that I am pretty sure many users will miss. Currently, we have a special notion for contents, which is to edit it in WYSIWYG mode or Text Mode.
This does not change your vision IMO, it just add one more concept, the editor kind: some editors are plain text oriented (wiki, WebIDE, ...), and others are WYSIWYG oriented (GWT, CK, ...).
My vision would be to keep that kind as significant about editors, so that what you said so far about a single editors set would be true for two kind of editors set. So that I can choose in my profile my default plain text editor, my default WYSIWYG editor, and my default editor kind (the actual setting we have already). And in the edit menu, the proposal from Vincent could be reduced to providing a single direct link for your default kind of editor so to the default editor you have for that kind, but if for example you hold “shift” or “option/alt”, you would get the menu switched to the other kind and therefore your other default editor. This method will not work a touch/mobile device, but I doubt that it will be an issue.
Other alternative to the menu switch, the menu always goes to your defaults, but you can switch between editor kinds from the editor page without losing information. This looks like the “source” tab of the GWT WYSIWYG, but using the true wiki editor in it and having the ability to start with it without load the WYSIWYG (I have never really understand why we had that hybrid source tab which compete with the wiki editor in the mind of a basic user).
WDYT ?
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu:
Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form …
So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”.
There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this: * Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages) * Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain.
So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile.
I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 1:05 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu:
Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form …
So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”.
There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this:
* Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages)
We should be able to configure the preferred editors for a given wiki page like we do for user, wiki and farm. And we can with nested pages, by using the "space" preferences. The code "space" of an application could be configured to use the plain text editor for instance. The question is what is the fall-back chain? Can the user overwrite the preferred editor as page or wiki level?
* Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain.
So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile.
This translates into another configuration level: request. It means being able to overwrite the preferred editors for a specific request. But this is generic and could be used for other configuration options, like the hidden pages.
I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 06 Jun 2016, at 16:47, Marius Dumitru Florea <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 1:05 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu:
Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form …
So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”.
There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this:
* Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages)
We should be able to configure the preferred editors for a given wiki page like we do for user, wiki and farm. And we can with nested pages, by using the "space" preferences. The code "space" of an application could be configured to use the plain text editor for instance. The question is what is the fall-back chain? Can the user overwrite the preferred editor as page or wiki level?
That’s not what I meant. We’re not going to force users to have to set an admin option per wiki page! :) When editing a page the user needs to be able to choose whether he wants to edit with a visual editor or a syntax editor.
* Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It
take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain.
So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile.
This translates into another configuration level: request. It means being able to overwrite the preferred editors for a specific request. But this is generic and could be used for other configuration options, like the hidden pages.
Yes per request. But that’s technical. We need to find how it translates in the UI. One option I mentioned is shortcut keys but that may not be enough. Another idea is also what I suggested with the Edit menu showing various options. Thanks -Vincent
I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with
a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On 06 Jun 2016, at 16:47, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 1:05 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu:
Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form …
So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”.
There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this:
* Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages)
We should be able to configure the preferred editors for a given wiki page like we do for user, wiki and farm. And we can with nested pages, by using the "space" preferences. The code "space" of an application could be configured to use the plain text editor for instance. The question is what is the fall-back chain? Can the user overwrite the preferred editor as page or wiki level?
That’s not what I meant. We’re not going to force users to have to set an admin option per wiki page! :)
When editing a page the user needs to be able to choose whether he wants to edit with a visual editor or a syntax editor.
You are referring to plain wiki pages here, but users interact a lot with structured pages also where they cannot choose from the edit menu the visual editor or the syntax editor.
* Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It
take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain.
So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile.
This translates into another configuration level: request. It means being able to overwrite the preferred editors for a specific request. But this is generic and could be used for other configuration options, like the hidden pages.
Yes per request. But that’s technical. We need to find how it translates in the UI. One option I mentioned is shortcut keys but that may not be enough. Another idea is also what I suggested with the Edit menu showing various options.
Thanks -Vincent
I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with
a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 06 Jun 2016, at 18:32, Marius Dumitru Florea <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On 06 Jun 2016, at 16:47, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 1:05 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu:
Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form …
So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”.
There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this:
* Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages)
We should be able to configure the preferred editors for a given wiki page like we do for user, wiki and farm. And we can with nested pages, by using the "space" preferences. The code "space" of an application could be configured to use the plain text editor for instance. The question is what is the fall-back chain? Can the user overwrite the preferred editor as page or wiki level?
That’s not what I meant. We’re not going to force users to have to set an admin option per wiki page! :)
When editing a page the user needs to be able to choose whether he wants to edit with a visual editor or a syntax editor.
You are referring to plain wiki pages here, but users interact a lot with structured pages also where they cannot choose from the edit menu the visual editor or the syntax editor.
Indeed, and that’s a recurrent problem we have. We need to offer the user the option to switch to another editor too when editing xproperties. Thanks -Vincent
* Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It
take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain.
So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile.
This translates into another configuration level: request. It means being able to overwrite the preferred editors for a specific request. But this is generic and could be used for other configuration options, like the hidden pages.
Yes per request. But that’s technical. We need to find how it translates in the UI. One option I mentioned is shortcut keys but that may not be enough. Another idea is also what I suggested with the Edit menu showing various options.
Thanks -Vincent
I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with
a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
+1 with the Caty's idea. 2016-06-06 19:16 GMT+02:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>:
On 06 Jun 2016, at 18:32, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On 06 Jun 2016, at 16:47, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 1:05 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement
of
the
current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
So far so good, I completely agree :)
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences
And also falling back on the global preferences for the farm if not defined at the wiki level.
* The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
So I agree with everything you said. However it could also be possible to also have edit mode with editors. For example consider the following edit menu:
Edit |_ Content |_ … With Default Editor |_ … With GWT WYSIWYG |_ … With CKEditor |_ … With Wiki Editor |_ Inline / Form …
So the Edit > Content menu entry could have sub menu entries to choose explicitly which editor to edit with for the fields which support a "content editor”.
There could be other options but I would definitely not like a solution where I have to go to my profile and change my preferences whenever I need to change the editor to edit a given page. There are several reasons for this:
* Some pages are good to be edited in WYSIWYG (pure content pages), while others are better edited using the wiki editor (code pages)
We should be able to configure the preferred editors for a given wiki page like we do for user, wiki and farm. And we can with nested pages, by using the "space" preferences. The code "space" of an application could be configured to use the plain text editor for instance. The question is what is the fall-back chain? Can the user overwrite the preferred editor as page or wiki level?
That’s not what I meant. We’re not going to force users to have to set an admin option per wiki page! :)
When editing a page the user needs to be able to choose whether he wants to edit with a visual editor or a syntax editor.
You are referring to plain wiki pages here, but users interact a lot with structured pages also where they cannot choose from the edit menu the visual editor or the syntax editor.
Indeed, and that’s a recurrent problem we have. We need to offer the user the option to switch to another editor too when editing xproperties.
Thanks -Vincent
* Right now we already have a similar issue with showing hidden pages. It
take a lot of time to switch back and forth and for devs it’s a pain.
So while I agree with everything you said, I’d like that we also find a way to be able to very quickly select which editor to use without having to set it in your profile.
This translates into another configuration level: request. It means being able to overwrite the preferred editors for a specific request. But this is generic and could be used for other configuration options, like the hidden pages.
Yes per request. But that’s technical. We need to find how it translates in the UI. One option I mentioned is shortcut keys but that may not be enough. Another idea is also what I suggested with the Edit menu showing various options.
Thanks -Vincent
I guess one solution could be to have shortcuts keys to force editing with
a given editor. I don’t know if it would be good enough though.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
On 16-06-03 08:29 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences * The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
Thanks, Marius _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
+1 to all of the above. Well thought out.
BTW we also need to take into account the 2 other use cases: * Realtime GWT WYSIWYG editor * Realtime CKEeditor editor What I don’t know is how these are packaged. Are they full-fledged editors or just add-ons to editors that need to be turned on somehow? I guess the simplest is to consider them as full-fledged editors. Thanks -Vincent
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences * The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
Thanks, Marius _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
My understanding is that Realtime GWT is not supported anymore. If you have the realtime extensions installed (RTWYSIWYG or RTWIKI) there's a small script that runs at page load and determines whether a realtime session should begin. Currently this means sniffing the page a bit to check what kind of editor is being used, and checking the user has ticked the "disallow realtime" checkbox (which sets a flag in their localstorage). There was a little trial and error to figure out what we could test for without getting false positives. Currently, realtime CKEditor checks the URL, as we found that to be the most reliable indicator. A more official API would be greatly appreciated, maybe something on the XWiki object? I'm aware of the 'editor' field, but we haven't been able to use it because $reasons. Aaron On 16-06-04 02:20 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
BTW we also need to take into account the 2 other use cases: * Realtime GWT WYSIWYG editor * Realtime CKEeditor editor
What I don’t know is how these are packaged. Are they full-fledged editors or just add-ons to editors that need to be turned on somehow?
I guess the simplest is to consider them as full-fledged editors.
Thanks -Vincent
On 03 Jun 2016, at 20:29, Marius Dumitru Florea <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
While working on adding extension points to support the replacement of the current WYSIWYG editor I came to the conclusion that we need to make a clear distinction between Edit Modes and Editors.
An Edit Mode is basically an HTML *form* that allows you to edit some data that is associated with an XWiki document. There can be for instance an edit mode to edit the document title and content, another edit mode to edit the document objects, another one to edit the document access rights, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new edit modes. The current place where we expose the Edit Modes is the Edit Menu. Class, Objects, Access Rights, Inline Form are well defined edit modes. Before we talk about the Wiki and WYSIWYG "edit modes" let's define what an editor is.
An Editor is basically a form *field*. Most of the time it is an enhanced form field, a widget, that allows you to edit a single document field. The editor obviously depends on the field type. There can be a date editor (known as date picker), a plain text editor, a rich text editor, and so on. Ideally, XWiki extensions should be able to provide new editors for specific data types. For instance an extension could replace the date picker. Another one could replace the rich text editor.
The relation between Edit Modes and Editors is many to many. An Edit Mode can use multiple editors and an Editor can be used by multiple Edit Modes. For instance the rich text editor can be used in the "Content" edit mode (for document content) but also in the Inline Form edit mode, for TextArea object properties.
If we agree with this distinction then I think XWiki should have separate extension points for Edit Modes vs. Editors.
What does this mean for the CKEditor integration? Well, CKEditor is an editor.. so it doesn't make sense to have a "CKEditor" edit mode. CKEditor can be used to edit the document content as well as the TextArea object properties that contain wiki syntax. So there should be no "CKEditor" entry in the Edit Menu. Otherwise we need to add "Inline Form - CKEditor" also, and so on for each Edit Mode that can use the CKEditor.
So I think we should go in the following direction:
* Replace Wiki and WYSIWYG entries from the Edit menu with a single Entry that will represent the Edit Mode for editing the document title, content and syntax. I'm not yet sure what name should we use for this Edit Mode. Let's call it "Content" for now. * The default edit action (for simple users) will ** open the Inline Form edit mode if the document has a sheet associated ** open the "Content" edit mode otherwise * The "Content" edit mode will use the Editor configured in the User Profile, falling-back on the wiki preferences * The Inline Form edit mode will use for TextArea properties the Editor specified in the property meta data, falling-back on the User Profile setting, then on the wiki preferences * We should have an administration section to configure the default Editor as wiki level (wiki preferences)
We don't have to implement all this right away. I'd like to start by making the editor list from the TextArea meta data, User Profile and wiki preferences extensible, so that CKEditor can add its entry there.
WDYT?
Thanks, Marius _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, I agree 100% with Vincent, there should be a quick way to switch between GWT and CKEditor. Have there been any evolutions on this topic ? We've just migrated from XWiki 6.x to 8.4, and some users are not yet confortable with ckeditor, they are used to GWT. I had to configure GWT as default editor for them. An editor switcher would ease the transitition from GWT to CKEditor. WDYT ? -- View this message in context: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Edit-Modes-vs-Editors-tp7599795p7602790.ht... Sent from the XWiki- Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (8)
-
Aaron MacSween -
Denis Gervalle -
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Guillaume Delhumeau -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol -
yaltis