[xwiki-devs] Back to the future of XWiki !

Vincent Massol vincent at massol.net
Fri Mar 4 13:58:36 UTC 2011

Just a quick mail to say that I agree a lot with what Andreas said in his mail: I also think we need to do tech marketing a lot more (but it's everyone's duty to do so, not specifically Ludovic's):

* have xwiki talks at more conferences (by xwiki devs and by users)
* have more blogs about xwiki out there
* have more articles on xwiki
* have books on xwiki ;)
* have xwiki installs at more known forges (we're already on ow2): apache, codehaus, etc
* have xwiki in standard linux distributions 
* move to github for easier forking/contributions
* push xwiki artifacts to central
* make xwiki more easily reusable by other projects to spread the brand: that's what we're doing with XWiki Rendering and XWiki Commons 

I also agree that I'd prefer to see way more stabilization of the xwiki platform (polishing, bug fixes, improvements of existing features) rather than add lots of new features.

But I know Ludovic is aware of that and it's our collective duty (everyone here: devs, users, contributors) to balance stabilization vs new features.


On Mar 4, 2011, at 2:27 PM, Jerome Velociter wrote:

> Hi Andreas, everyone
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Andreas Hahn <ahahn at gmx.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I'm a bit surprised that you are just talking about features and not
>> about moving from a niche product to get more mainstream.
>> When I'm saying niche product I'm just referring to what google trends says.
>> http://www.google.com/trends?q=xwiki%2C+foswiki%2C+twiki%2C+confluence
> "confluence" is a word of the English language, it makes this chart off by far.
> This one would be a bit more relevant in my opinion :
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=xwiki%2C+atlassian%2C+mindtouch& but I
> still don't think it means that much.
>> Well I think that almost all people on this mailing list like xwiki a
>> lot and the hard and devoted work the developers are doing and all wish
>> xwiki and its backing company all the best and a long and prosperous future.
>> However I'm concerned when reading that the XWiki SAS 'Product
>> Marketing' lead (and CEO) thinks that it helps the product to get more
>> involved as a developer.
>> IMHO a product marketing lead should have totally different priorities.
> Ludovic will probably answer this for himself, but as a quick remark I
> think you've misinterpreted his mail. He doesn't say he will come back
> as a developer, but only as a Product Marketing lead, thus working
> close to developers and the community, because, well, that's how
> (real) open source software is developed.
>> IMHO its a misconception to think that more features will help the
>> product to attract a greater audience.
>> Just a few things that come to my mind:
>> * Push xwiki into as many linux distros as possible with 'one click
>> installers'
>> * Create ready-to-go images for popular cloud hosters (such as Amazon EC2)
>> * Talk to as much hosters and push them to introduce XWiki as part of
>> their offerings.
>> * Make it simple and attractive for people currently using other
>> software (Wordpress comes to my mind) to move to the more powerful XWiki
> I think this vision is not complete.
> Cloud and hosted software got a lot of attention lately, but in-house
> software is not dead yet. Maybe in a couple of years in-house will
> mean "deployed on a private cloud", but we are still far from here, we
> would have first to see a complete, mature, open source cloud solution
> emerge, and have organizations deploy it on their infrastructures. I
> think we are speaking of half a decade here, so we have time to try
> and not miss that train :)
> In the mean time, I think XWiki's greatest challenge is to become the
> de-facto standard in the enterprise open source stack when speaking
> collaboration. Right now we are not badly positioned when speaking of
> "collaborative edition/redaction". We need to affirm this position and
> push it further to "collaboration" in a larger meaning (without trying
> to be the solution to everything or a social network tool, because
> that's not what XWiki is).
> Now I agree with you, it would be of course a good thing to have the
> EC2 distribution, the VMWare images and be present in more online
> offerings etc. Just I think it's not absolutely critical versus making
> XWiki a product so great that it just becomes a logical choice for
> collaboration.
> I also agree having easy installs on linux would be great to increase
> visibility. But as a I understand, the cost of packing java apps for
> linux is quite high. This is why you don't see packages even for
> popular java (web) applications.
> Trying to replace all blogs out there by XWiki is not going to help
> too much IMHO. Even if we geeks like it to use our toy for absolutely
> everything, for the rest of the world, XWiki remains mainly a
> professional software for doing collaborative edition.
> That was my 2 cents. Not trying to just "defend my turf" as one of the
> developer of XWiki, but rather trying to balance the vision that says
> we need to be very strong on the web / commercial clouds to win. There
> already have been some success stories of open source end-user
> applications (in the sense:  not infrastructure apps) a la Alfresco,
> Liferay, Zimbra, etc. I think XWiki is a candidate for such, even if
> we are not there yet. The important part in my opinion is building a
> great product, the rest will come naturally. That's why having strong
> product marketing with Ludovic being active on features investigation
> and design make sense and will be a good thing in my opinion.
> Jerome.
>> I may be paranoid but I wonder if we will see XWiki survive the next
>> couple of years if its not gaining momentum in the big world.
>> just my 2 cents
>> Andreas
>> Am 03.03.2011 14:21, schrieb Ludovic Dubost:
>>> Hi all,
>>> As many of you may know, 7 years ago, I created the XWiki Open-Source
>>> software.  A few years ago, especially when Vincent arrived, I took a
>>> step back from development of the XWiki product to focus on
>>> developping XWiki SAS which allows to support the XWiki development.
>>> I've particularly spent my time making sure that the deployments of
>>> XWiki our Customers have been doing are successfull. I've left the
>>> product development work to committers who under the lead of Vincent
>>> have done amazing work in the last few years. We have provided some
>>> product marketing in addition through Guillaume's and lately Gregory's
>>> work which allowed to bring some feedback from users and customers and
>>> also bring a different less technical perspective to the XWiki Product
>>> development. Cati also joined the team and allowed us to make huge
>>> steps forward in product usability and design.
>>> Now, as XWiki SAS's project implementation team is doing great work on
>>> it's own, I've decided to involve myself more in the future of XWiki's
>>> product. I'm now the new XWiki SAS 'Product Marketing' head which
>>> means I will involve myself in community discussions about the product
>>> features actively developped, investigated for future development as
>>> well as in general discussions about the XWiki Software's future. I
>>> will try to bring the knowledge that XWiki SAS's customer, project
>>> managers, support team bring us from using XWiki in production
>>> environments to the community so that we make better decisions, more
>>> focused on developments that will allow to increase XWiki's success
>>> with end users. At XWiki SAS we have already done a lot of work to
>>> organize this feedback so that we know more things that XWiki SAS's
>>> developers and the XWiki community should work on.
>>> In the next few weeks you will therefore see me work on the
>>> investigations of future features as well as work more closely with
>>> developers whenever they feel the need on the features they implement
>>> actively. I will also manage the different surveys we have done in the
>>> past to gather feedback from our community. These surveys have still
>>> been running on the xwiki.org web site although they are now quite
>>> outdated. I will propose to review them and launch them again.
>>> If users or developers have any feedback about XWiki, about what we
>>> should work on in priority, please do send that feedback on the list
>>> (preferably). Although we have a much bigger list of great ideas than
>>> what we currently can achieve, you can help us on helping us select
>>> the most important ones that will make a difference.
>>> I would like to use this occasion to thank our great community of
>>> developers and users who help the committers every day to make XWiki
>>> better. We could not do this without all the suggestions, ideas,
>>> patches that our community provides.
>>> Thanks
>>> Ludovic

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