[xwiki-users] RE: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

[Guillaume Lerouge]

Hi Uwe,

I think the easiest way right now for you to get those rights and the right
interface (the 1.0, not the old one which is still default on the farm)
would be to give us the address of the XWiki you are using so that we can
give it a look and help you a bit more effectively.

I am ok to do that, I will have some time tomorrow if you need a hand to
switch to the new skin and start doing some basic stuff.

On the "philosophical" side, I would say that XWiki's gut compared with most
other wikis lie in the fact that you can create cookie cutters
and you do not need to cut all your cookies by hand.

A successful app is therefore first an application that has a well-defined
aim (ie, "I want to use a wiki as a contact manager in my company") and then
one which builds on the tools and interface provided by XWiki to achieve
this aim more effectively than a traditional wiki would.

What does the object model provides you with? Basically, a way to automate
template duplication and modification. XWiki lets you separate form and
content, a bit like the distinction between html and css. You can let the
actual content to end-users and take care of the layout.

You can create elements that will operate on specific subsets (eg, only a
given value in the pages of a given space) to provide users with effective
ways to browse through content: for instance, a search searching only for
elements in FAQ objects in the FAQ space, or only in the content of answers
field and not in the content of questions field for instance, which would be
impossible with a standard wiki. Currently, learning how to do so depends on
the availability of existing code... I think we can progressively change
this together.

As regards the documentation, right now it depends on user like you and me,
who have the time and motivation to document new things as they come by
them. I am not sure any "general framework" or whatever would be that useful
here. It is more about everybody taking small, incremental steps, say 5
minutes a day to improve a page, add useful comments to the wiki and so on.
I have started trying to do that, adding a FAQ, an application page, a
reference and so on when I could.

Hopefully if the wiki way paradigm holds any truth we should end up with an
amazing, Wikipedia-like database of our own that would tell all the secrets
of XWiki. My take is, let's give it a try and we'll see what happens next
:-)

Guillaume

PS: I do not mean to say that the killer app discussed before is not a good
idea, only that (as I think Brian made the point earlier) it is easier to
spare 5 minutes than 5 hours to work on XWiki.org...

On 05/04/07, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu.dumitriu at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well said!
>
> You can ask the developers for assistance whenever you have difficulties
> understanding something.
>
> Sergiu
>
> On 4/5/07, Oova < ping.scan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > I must be another breed, I barely follow you, 'these' users and 'those'
> > users, automatically generated comment pages for users to fill it out,
> > etc..... I am just lost or too old fashioned.
> > My humble opinion is as follows. In house building as in software, if
> > you
> > want to enable somebody else to build an application (house) you give
> > them a
> > description, what kind of particular applications (houses) you
> > especially
> > are qualified to help building FASTER and BETTER than usual (Benefits
> > overview and tools to gain those benefits). You also write, what kind of
> >
> > skill set might be useful to take advantage of the tools your provide.
> > Then
> > you provide the architecture (blueprint, ....) and explain what kind of
> > interfaces (for walls, windows, plumbing, roofing,...) you created to
> > enable
> > others to build. To expedite the break-in you give some sample
> > applications
> > illustrating how the architecture, interfaces and tools helped gain the
> > benefits for some use cases. And I am sorry, no offense, you do not ask
> > the
> > engineer who designed the software kit/ housing builder kit do document
> > it,
> > otherwise it becomes a kit from highly skilled engineers for other
> > highly
> > skilled engineers written in a highly specialized technise language,
> > which
> > the target audience might not speak. You normally ask a guinea pig out
> > of
> > the targeted audience to try to document, what it understands and let it
> > build at least one application (house) using the tools provided. And you
> >
> > nurture the guinea pig with enough food, encouragement and help, so the
> > snowball effect making the whole target audience aware of your great
> > stuff
> > can start and you as the engineer can go back cranking out the next
> > great SW
> > and tool for even better applications and houses. Making sense? Any
> > agreement?
> > I am a guinea pig, I am eager to use Xwiki, because for some reason, I
> > think
> > XWiki is a great concept (don't let me go into the 'Crossing the chasm
> > modeling, or the 4 steps of the epiphany', both great models of how to
> > establish innovation in the market place successfully and go beyond the
> > innovator's initial excitement). But you need to let the targeted
> > audience
> > pick-up the momentum.
> >
> > Enough Philosophy, if there is any agreement on what I said before, let
> > me,
> > Guillaume and other 'users' spread the word in a lower level technise.
> > To
> > enable us we need to understand
> > - targeted user (groups)
> > - architecture
> > - concept of object model and API
> > - guts (and not only nice webpages) of successful applications of the
> > XWiki
> > (or is the XWikis main purpose to create nice looking webpages? I did
> > not
> > think so)
> >
> > Uwe
> >
> >
> > THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll
> > >> work though as:
> > >> 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't
> > >> know what it does
> > >> 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away
> > >> 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
> > >>
> > >> :)
> > >
> > > Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're
> > not
> > > necessarily talking of these users.  I'm talking about people like me
> > > who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that
> > > little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially
> > when
> > > it's in the context of the document
> > >
> > >> But I like the idea...  and would be game to try it... if
> > >> someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used
> > >> for the 1.0
> > >> release)
> > >>
> > >
> > > The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't
> > > found an HTML DOM parser.  Is there one in the myriad of libraries
> > that
> > > come with XWiki?
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://purl.org/net/sergiu
>
>
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