[xwiki-users] RE: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

[Oova]

Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
> 
> Hi Uwe,
> 
> I think the easiest way right now for you to get those rights and the
> right
> interface (the 1.0, not the old one which is still default on the farm)
> would be to give us the address of the XWiki you are using so that we can
> give it a look and help you a bit more effectively.
> 
> I am ok to do that, I will have some time tomorrow if you need a hand to
> switch to the new skin and start doing some basic stuff.
> 
>>Guillaume, I am excited about your help if I just knew what exactly are
you helping with?
> 
> On the "philosophical" side, I would say that XWiki's gut compared with
> most
> other wikis lie in the fact that you can create cookie cutters
> and you do not need to cut all your cookies by hand.
> 
> A successful app is therefore first an application that has a well-defined
> aim (ie, "I want to use a wiki as a contact manager in my company") and
> then
> one which builds on the tools and interface provided by XWiki to achieve
> this aim more effectively than a traditional wiki would.
> 
> What does the object model provides you with? Basically, a way to automate
> template duplication and modification. XWiki lets you separate form and
> content, a bit like the distinction between html and css. You can let the
> actual content to end-users and take care of the layout.
> 
> You can create elements that will operate on specific subsets (eg, only a
> given value in the pages of a given space) to provide users with effective
> ways to browse through content: for instance, a search searching only for
> elements in FAQ objects in the FAQ space, or only in the content of
> answers
> field and not in the content of questions field for instance, which would
> be
> impossible with a standard wiki. Currently, learning how to do so depends
> on
> the availability of existing code... I think we can progressively change
> this together.
>> thanks for the introduction, we need to get some crisp description out,
>> elevator speech like, let's pick up our idea of a use case page on the
>> wiki idea page, I'd like to defer any discussion about that to the idea
>> page, if yo don't mind.
> 
> As regards the documentation, right now it depends on user like you and
> me,
> who have the time and motivation to document new things as they come by
> them. 
>>> See that is what I can't really agree with. I am still an engineer and
>>> think in concepts. I am not going to spend much time on figuring out how
>>> to put a nail in the beam with what hammer by asking the carpenter how
>>> he does it or worse try it myself WITHOUT asking the architect, how the
>>> house should be build and what this particular hammer  or nail creates
>>> in terms of benefits. If any hammer or nail is good then fine too.
>>> Making sense?
> The object/date model for the main constructs $doc, $xwiki, $context and
> others are critical and key objects as I understand and should be
> explained first including their methods. 
> 
> I am not sure any "general framework" or whatever would be that useful
> here. It is more about everybody taking small, incremental steps, say 5
> minutes a day to improve a page, add useful comments to the wiki and so
> on.
>>> I agree that for incremental additions you create incremental
>>> descriptions, I am at the root, I am looking at the API doc and see a
>>> lot of words w/o clear concept. If I start documenting this
>>> incrementally, I will delete as many of my comments as I add because I
>>> have to learn it the hard way and have incremental light bulbs coming
>>> on. I like a bigger light bulb in the beginning in more efficient way
>>> much better by having some time with one of the star archtects amongs
>>> the users/developers to make substantial progress.
> 
> I have started trying to do that, adding a FAQ, an application page, a
> reference and so on when I could.
> 
> Hopefully if the wiki way paradigm holds any truth we should end up with
> an
> amazing, Wikipedia-like database of our own that would tell all the
> secrets
> of XWiki. My take is, let's give it a try and we'll see what happens next
> :-)
> 
> Guillaume
> 
> PS: I do not mean to say that the killer app discussed before is not a
> good
> idea, only that (as I think Brian made the point earlier) it is easier to
> spare 5 minutes than 5 hours to work on XWiki.org...
> 
> On 05/04/07, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu.dumitriu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well said!
>>
>> You can ask the developers for assistance whenever you have difficulties
>> understanding something.
>>
>> Sergiu
>>
>> On 4/5/07, Oova < ping.scan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Guys,
>> >
>> > I must be another breed, I barely follow you, 'these' users and 'those'
>> > users, automatically generated comment pages for users to fill it out,
>> > etc..... I am just lost or too old fashioned.
>> > My humble opinion is as follows. In house building as in software, if
>> > you
>> > want to enable somebody else to build an application (house) you give
>> > them a
>> > description, what kind of particular applications (houses) you
>> > especially
>> > are qualified to help building FASTER and BETTER than usual (Benefits
>> > overview and tools to gain those benefits). You also write, what kind
>> of
>> >
>> > skill set might be useful to take advantage of the tools your provide.
>> > Then
>> > you provide the architecture (blueprint, ....) and explain what kind of
>> > interfaces (for walls, windows, plumbing, roofing,...) you created to
>> > enable
>> > others to build. To expedite the break-in you give some sample
>> > applications
>> > illustrating how the architecture, interfaces and tools helped gain the
>> > benefits for some use cases. And I am sorry, no offense, you do not ask
>> > the
>> > engineer who designed the software kit/ housing builder kit do document
>> > it,
>> > otherwise it becomes a kit from highly skilled engineers for other
>> > highly
>> > skilled engineers written in a highly specialized technise language,
>> > which
>> > the target audience might not speak. You normally ask a guinea pig out
>> > of
>> > the targeted audience to try to document, what it understands and let
>> it
>> > build at least one application (house) using the tools provided. And
>> you
>> >
>> > nurture the guinea pig with enough food, encouragement and help, so the
>> > snowball effect making the whole target audience aware of your great
>> > stuff
>> > can start and you as the engineer can go back cranking out the next
>> > great SW
>> > and tool for even better applications and houses. Making sense? Any
>> > agreement?
>> > I am a guinea pig, I am eager to use Xwiki, because for some reason, I
>> > think
>> > XWiki is a great concept (don't let me go into the 'Crossing the chasm
>> > modeling, or the 4 steps of the epiphany', both great models of how to
>> > establish innovation in the market place successfully and go beyond the
>> > innovator's initial excitement). But you need to let the targeted
>> > audience
>> > pick-up the momentum.
>> >
>> > Enough Philosophy, if there is any agreement on what I said before, let
>> > me,
>> > Guillaume and other 'users' spread the word in a lower level technise.
>> > To
>> > enable us we need to understand
>> > - targeted user (groups)
>> > - architecture
>> > - concept of object model and API
>> > - guts (and not only nice webpages) of successful applications of the
>> > XWiki
>> > (or is the XWikis main purpose to create nice looking webpages? I did
>> > not
>> > think so)
>> >
>> > Uwe
>> >
>> >
>> > THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll
>> > >> work though as:
>> > >> 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't
>> > >> know what it does
>> > >> 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away
>> > >> 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
>> > >>
>> > >> :)
>> > >
>> > > Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're
>> > not
>> > > necessarily talking of these users.  I'm talking about people like me
>> > > who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that
>> > > little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially
>> > when
>> > > it's in the context of the document
>> > >
>> > >> But I like the idea...  and would be game to try it... if
>> > >> someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used
>> > >> for the 1.0
>> > >> release)
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I
>> haven't
>> > > found an HTML DOM parser.  Is there one in the myriad of libraries
>> > that
>> > > come with XWiki?
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://purl.org/net/sergiu
>>
>>
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> 
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