[xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Change of title behavior proposal
Hi everyone, With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents. Here's what I suggest: 1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size) 4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri 6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title. We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO. WDYT? Thanks -Vincent
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 14:48, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
+1 for all (i'm not sure for div since i'm not an html expert but the important point is that the page title and first level headers should have different style for sure)
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1, as you says it's a totally new way of seeing document content so it should be applied to all skins.
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Is the h1 hidden in this case ? 7) make the toc macro start at first header level instead of second
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:06 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 14:48, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
+1 for all (i'm not sure for div since i'm not an html expert but the important point is that the page title and first level headers should have different style for sure)
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1, as you says it's a totally new way of seeing document content so it should be applied to all skins.
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Is the h1 hidden in this case ?
7) make the toc macro start at first header level instead of second
Note that we can change the toc to display the first level all the time since that will only add the document's title for those in backward compat mode. -Vincent
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 15:06, Thomas Mortagne<[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 14:48, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
+1 for all (i'm not sure for div since i'm not an html expert but the important point is that the page title and first level headers should have different style for sure)
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1, as you says it's a totally new way of seeing document content so it should be applied to all skins.
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Also this should be off by default since it's backward compatibility and a wrong behavior in a normal new wiki.
Is the h1 hidden in this case ?
7) make the toc macro start at first header level instead of second
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Sep 8, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 15:06, Thomas Mortagne<[email protected]
wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 14:48, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
+1 for all (i'm not sure for div since i'm not an html expert but the important point is that the page title and first level headers should have different style for sure)
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1, as you says it's a totally new way of seeing document content so it should be applied to all skins.
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Also this should be off by default since it's backward compatibility and a wrong behavior in a normal new wiki.
There's one remaining problem Thomas with this: the default XAR will not display properly. We would need to have 2 XARs for this to work: one for backward compat and a new one, using titles. And this is a pain to do IMO. We don't want a new user to start XE and find that all titles are duplicated by default with a clean wiki he hasn't touched. WDYT? Thanks -Vincent
Is the h1 hidden in this case ?
7) make the toc macro start at first header level instead of second
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 09:06, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 15:06, Thomas Mortagne<[email protected]
wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 14:48, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
+1 for all (i'm not sure for div since i'm not an html expert but the important point is that the page title and first level headers should have different style for sure)
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1, as you says it's a totally new way of seeing document content so it should be applied to all skins.
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Also this should be off by default since it's backward compatibility and a wrong behavior in a normal new wiki.
There's one remaining problem Thomas with this: the default XAR will not display properly. We would need to have 2 XARs for this to work: one for backward compat and a new one, using titles. And this is a pain to do IMO.
We don't want a new user to start XE and find that all titles are duplicated by default with a clean wiki he hasn't touched.
WDYT?
We are not supposed to do backward compatibility on what we are releasing... if XE is wrong for 2.0 it should be fixed.
Thanks -Vincent
Is the h1 hidden in this case ?
7) make the toc macro start at first header level instead of second
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Sep 9, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 09:06, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 15:06, Thomas Mortagne<[email protected]
wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 14:48, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
+1 for all (i'm not sure for div since i'm not an html expert but the important point is that the page title and first level headers should have different style for sure)
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1, as you says it's a totally new way of seeing document content so it should be applied to all skins.
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Also this should be off by default since it's backward compatibility and a wrong behavior in a normal new wiki.
There's one remaining problem Thomas with this: the default XAR will not display properly. We would need to have 2 XARs for this to work: one for backward compat and a new one, using titles. And this is a pain to do IMO.
We don't want a new user to start XE and find that all titles are duplicated by default with a clean wiki he hasn't touched.
WDYT?
We are not supposed to do backward compatibility on what we are releasing... if XE is wrong for 2.0 it should be fixed.
I don't agree. This would mean someone using 2.0 with Toucan couldn't upgrade their XAR with the new stuff. -Vincent
Thanks -Vincent
Is the h1 hidden in this case ?
7) make the toc macro start at first header level instead of second
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:52, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sep 9, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 09:06, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 15:06, Thomas Mortagne<[email protected]
wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 14:48, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
+1 for all (i'm not sure for div since i'm not an html expert but the important point is that the page title and first level headers should have different style for sure)
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1, as you says it's a totally new way of seeing document content so it should be applied to all skins.
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Also this should be off by default since it's backward compatibility and a wrong behavior in a normal new wiki.
There's one remaining problem Thomas with this: the default XAR will not display properly. We would need to have 2 XARs for this to work: one for backward compat and a new one, using titles. And this is a pain to do IMO.
We don't want a new user to start XE and find that all titles are duplicated by default with a clean wiki he hasn't touched.
WDYT?
We are not supposed to do backward compatibility on what we are releasing... if XE is wrong for 2.0 it should be fixed.
I don't agree. This would mean someone using 2.0 with Toucan couldn't upgrade their XAR with the new stuff.
Sure if they use an old skin not made for the new rule I don't see how it would work... Don't mix everything, backward compatibility is one thing but if the rule now is that a page is supposed to have a real title and use first level header for this then the default XE should follow this rule... since it's the rule.
-Vincent
Thanks -Vincent
Is the h1 hidden in this case ?
7) make the toc macro start at first header level instead of second
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Sep 9, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:52, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sep 9, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 09:06, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 15:06, Thomas Mortagne<[email protected]
wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 14:48, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the > document's > rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects > Colibri > but > in general the way people write documents. > > Here's what I suggest: > > 1) Display doc titles with <div> > 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> > 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 > with a > smaller font size)
+1 for all (i'm not sure for div since i'm not an html expert but the important point is that the page title and first level headers should have different style for sure)
> 4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new > document. > Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing > document. > This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc > titles > (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in > easiness) > 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and > Dodo so > that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1, as you says it's a totally new way of seeing document content so it should be applied to all skins.
> 6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, > use a > Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page > and if > the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Also this should be off by default since it's backward compatibility and a wrong behavior in a normal new wiki.
There's one remaining problem Thomas with this: the default XAR will not display properly. We would need to have 2 XARs for this to work: one for backward compat and a new one, using titles. And this is a pain to do IMO.
We don't want a new user to start XE and find that all titles are duplicated by default with a clean wiki he hasn't touched.
WDYT?
We are not supposed to do backward compatibility on what we are releasing... if XE is wrong for 2.0 it should be fixed.
I don't agree. This would mean someone using 2.0 with Toucan couldn't upgrade their XAR with the new stuff.
Sure if they use an old skin not made for the new rule I don't see how it would work...
Don't mix everything, backward compatibility is one thing but if the rule now is that a page is supposed to have a real title and use first level header for this then the default XE should follow this rule... since it's the rule.
Well this means that we cannot release this without fixing all the other skins (we cannot wait for a 2.0.1 to do that). -Vincent
-Vincent
Thanks -Vincent
Is the h1 hidden in this case ?
7) make the toc macro start at first header level instead of second
> > We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri > skin > for > 2.0 final IMO. > > WDYT? > > Thanks > -Vincent
1) Display doc titles with <div>
isn't H1 more semantically correct?
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
This is not necessary. H1 means the first title in a document. The name of the document could be represented with H1. If me as a user, I want to have multiple H1 (with same importance as the title), I should be able to do that. The difference between the title and another H1 is the position in the document (the title is always the first). Representing the title as a H1 solves the 6) problem. Can you explain a user why the first title is bigger on some pages, while on other pages(no title specified), the title has the same size like other H1?
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness)
+1
5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
+1
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
Hi, On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
isn't H1 more semantically correct?
Maybe yes. It just looked strange to me to have 2 H1 but I'm ok with whatever our HTML experts say :)
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
This is not necessary. H1 means the first title in a document. The name of the document could be represented with H1. If me as a user, I want to have multiple H1 (with same importance as the title), I should be able to do that. The difference between the title and another H1 is the position in the document (the title is always the first).
Representing the title as a H1 solves the 6) problem. Can you explain a user why the first title is bigger on some pages, while on other pages(no title specified), the title has the same size like other H1?
= header = generates a H1. Thanks -Vincent
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness)
+1
5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
+1
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:27 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
isn't H1 more semantically correct?
Maybe yes. It just looked strange to me to have 2 H1 but I'm ok with whatever our HTML experts say :)
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
This is not necessary. H1 means the first title in a document. The name of the document could be represented with H1. If me as a user, I want to have multiple H1 (with same importance as the title), I should be able to do that. The difference between the title and another H1 is the position in the document (the title is always the first).
Representing the title as a H1 solves the 6) problem. Can you explain a user why the first title is bigger on some pages, while on other pages(no title specified), the title has the same size like other H1?
= header = generates a H1.
The other option is to modify the renderers and the XHTML renderer in particular so that = header= generate a H2 instead but this means: - all skins must be modified as mentioned in 5) - the wikimodel xwiki parser needs to be modified so that only up to 5 "=" symbols are supported since there's not H7 - verify other JS are not broken (like the JS for section edits for ex) -Vincent
Thanks -Vincent
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness)
+1
5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
+1
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:27 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
isn't H1 more semantically correct?
Maybe yes. It just looked strange to me to have 2 H1 but I'm ok with whatever our HTML experts say :)
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
This is not necessary. H1 means the first title in a document. The name of the document could be represented with H1. If me as a user, I want to have multiple H1 (with same importance as the title), I should be able to do that. The difference between the title and another H1 is the position in the document (the title is always the first).
Representing the title as a H1 solves the 6) problem. Can you explain a user why the first title is bigger on some pages, while on other pages(no title specified), the title has the same size like other H1?
= header = generates a H1.
The other option is to modify the renderers and the XHTML renderer in particular so that = header= generate a H2 instead but this means: - all skins must be modified as mentioned in 5) - the wikimodel xwiki parser needs to be modified so that only up to 5 "=" symbols are supported since there's not H7 - verify other JS are not broken (like the JS for section edits for ex)
Note that this would also mean that when using the XWiki rendering module standalone there's no way to generate a document's title. <thomas>That's why I was asking the other day whether an onTitle() event should be added or not to the Listener interface</thomas> Thanks -Vincent
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness)
+1
5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
+1
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
isn't H1 more semantically correct?
Maybe yes. It just looked strange to me to have 2 H1 but I'm ok with whatever our HTML experts say :)
Well, it is a little strange, because the title's H1 is "above" the first H1 in the document (since all = headings = generate H1s). However, a div is not semantic at all, better 2 H1s than a div.
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
This is not necessary. H1 means the first title in a document. The name of the document could be represented with H1. If me as a user, I want to have multiple H1 (with same importance as the title), I should be able to do that.
How about if I want to have none? why can't I have none? (I will automatically get a title generated from the document's name). Also, as I said, I think semantically the document title is more important than all the other level 1 headings in it (a book's title is more important than any of its chapters titles).
The difference between the title and another H1 is the position in the document (the title is always the first).
In this case, then why does the title have its own special input and so on? we could just rely on an existing first heading level 1, in the content, or use the document's name if none is set.
Representing the title as a H1 solves the 6) problem. Can you explain a user why the first title is bigger on some pages, while on other pages(no title specified), the title has the same size like other H1?
good point.
= header = generates a H1.
?
Thanks -Vincent
All in all, I find this one a very tricky one (from a semantic pov). To fix it, we'd need to agree on the semantic of a document title (maybe I missed some mails or chat discussions): We know we want it in the breadcrumbs, browser window title, and now we also want it represented (somehow) in the content. Does any document need a title (unique toplevel name)? With these semantics, we should also define the substitution rules: is a user inserted =heading 1= equivalent to a user inserted title? or it's just the document name that can replace it? how about: 6) no heading in the document replaces a document title, but upon save, a document title, if missing, is generated from separating the page name camel case in words. just my first thoughts. Happy hacking, Anca
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness)
+1
5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
+1
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi! Ecaterina Valica wrote:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
isn't H1 more semantically correct?
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
This is not necessary. H1 means the first title in a document. The name of the document could be represented with H1. If me as a user, I want to have multiple H1 (with same importance as the title), I should be able to do that. The difference between the title and another H1 is the position in the document (the title is always the first).
May I disagree with this? I think that a given document has to have a unique title. Another question is to decide if H1 could be used or not to mark it. To my understanding, heading1 mark will be used for one or several paragraphs used to head the first level of the hierarchical structure of a document under its title. I think we are messing here two different things: the html marking and the description of the document structure. I agree with Vicent when he says that a different HTML mark, no hx, must be used to render the document title. Thanks! -- Ricardo RodrÃguez Your EPEC Network ICT Team
[Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team wrote:
Hi!
Ecaterina Valica wrote:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
isn't H1 more semantically correct?
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
This is not necessary. H1 means the first title in a document. The name of the document could be represented with H1. If me as a user, I want to have multiple H1 (with same importance as the title), I should be able to do that. The difference between the title and another H1 is the position in the document (the title is always the first).
May I disagree with this? I think that a given document has to have a unique title. Another question is to decide if H1 could be used or not to mark it. To my understanding, heading1 mark will be used for one or several paragraphs used to head the first level of the hierarchical structure of a document under its title.
if "hierarchical structure under its title" semantic exists, then it means that the title _has_ to be a hx (1, since it's toplevel), to have this semantic correctly marked in html (a div won't do it, _at all_). Thanks, Anca
I think we are messing here two different things: the html marking and the description of the document structure. I agree with Vicent when he says that a different HTML mark, no hx, must be used to render the document title.
Thanks!
Hi Anca! Anca Luca wrote:
if "hierarchical structure under its title" semantic exists, then it means that the title _has_ to be a hx (1, since it's toplevel), to have this semantic correctly marked in html (a div won't do it, _at all_).
I am afraid once again I've posted without the required reflection. Or at least without googling enough. I think I've find the place where your have inspired to name of your blog! http://www.h1debate.com/ This could be also interesting... http://www.viget.com/inspire/ending-the-great-h1-debate/ Please, allow me to post these two links here for future reference. Thanks! Greetings, Ricardo -- Ricardo RodrÃguez Your EPEC Network ICT Team
Ecaterina Valica wrote:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
isn't H1 more semantically correct?
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
This is not necessary. H1 means the first title in a document. The name of the document could be represented with H1. If me as a user, I want to have multiple H1 (with same importance as the title), I should be able to do that.
The difference between the title and another H1 is the position in the document (the title is always the first).
For me the title of a document is semantically "above" all headings (including H1) found in the content so I think that it should be displayed in a different way. I'm fine with using H1 for the title, but with a different style. IMO a content H1 can play the role of the document title only if: * the title field is empty * the H1 heading starts the document * the document has only one H1 heading in the content Using the H1 as document title can be confusing because of the section editing icon which sometimes is around the title and sometimes it isn't. Thanks, Marius
Representing the title as a H1 solves the 6) problem. Can you explain a user why the first title is bigger on some pages, while on other pages(no title specified), the title has the same size like other H1?
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness)
+1
5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
+1
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
isn't H1 more semantically correct?
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size)
This is not necessary. H1 means the first title in a document. The name of the document could be represented with H1. If me as a user, I want to have multiple H1 (with same importance as the title), I should be able to do that. The difference between the title and another H1 is the position in the document (the title is always the first).
Representing the title as a H1 solves the 6) problem. Can you explain a user why the first title is bigger on some pages, while on other pages(no title specified), the title has the same size like other H1?
6) is not solved by this. We still need to convert existing document content. -Vincent
4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness)
+1
5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri
+1
6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
+1
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size) 4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri 6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Why javascript? This can be easily done on the server side in velocity, by looking into the string representing the rendered content.
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Sep 8, 2009, at 5:28 PM, Marta Girdea wrote:
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div> 2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size) 4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri 6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
Why javascript? This can be easily done on the server side in velocity, by looking into the string representing the rendered content.
Yes good point. Thanks -Vincent
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
1. The document title is already unique, using the special HTML element designed for titles: <title>. The problem is that it also contains context information: the document name, the wiki description 2. Nothing prohibits using several H1 elements, so we should not make = generate H2. We were doing this a while ago, but we reverted this behavior. 3. Using a div for the title is much worse than having several H1 elements, one of which is the title. If we want to make it special, using a plain div only does the exact opposite. 4. Using javascript is bad. JS should NEVER be used for basic functionality, only for enhancements. In conclusion, the best approach IMO is the following: - Leave the title as a H1 as it is now, inside a <div id="document-title"> - Don't change the current heading behavior, i.e. =XYZ= generates a H1 - Serverside, trim the first H1 element from the rendered content, which is exactly what gets sent to the client (thanks Marta for the idea) Question: do we remove the first heading only when it is the same as the document title (or when the title is empty), or do we always remove it?
Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
1. The document title is already unique, using the special HTML element designed for titles: <title>. The problem is that it also contains context information: the document name, the wiki description
2. Nothing prohibits using several H1 elements, so we should not make = generate H2. We were doing this a while ago, but we reverted this behavior.
3. Using a div for the title is much worse than having several H1 elements, one of which is the title. If we want to make it special, using a plain div only does the exact opposite.
4. Using javascript is bad. JS should NEVER be used for basic functionality, only for enhancements.
In conclusion, the best approach IMO is the following: - Leave the title as a H1 as it is now, inside a <div id="document-title"> - Don't change the current heading behavior, i.e. =XYZ= generates a H1
- Serverside, trim the first H1 element from the rendered content, which is exactly what gets sent to the client (thanks Marta for the idea)
What's the input for the WYSIWYG editor in this case? I think the user should be able to edit the first heading. Marius
Question: do we remove the first heading only when it is the same as the document title (or when the title is empty), or do we always remove it? _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 17:56, Marius Dumitru Florea<[email protected]> wrote:
Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
1. The document title is already unique, using the special HTML element designed for titles: <title>. The problem is that it also contains context information: the document name, the wiki description
2. Nothing prohibits using several H1 elements, so we should not make = generate H2. We were doing this a while ago, but we reverted this behavior.
3. Using a div for the title is much worse than having several H1 elements, one of which is the title. If we want to make it special, using a plain div only does the exact opposite.
4. Using javascript is bad. JS should NEVER be used for basic functionality, only for enhancements.
In conclusion, the best approach IMO is the following: - Leave the title as a H1 as it is now, inside a <div id="document-title"> - Don't change the current heading behavior, i.e. =XYZ= generates a H1
- Serverside, trim the first H1 element from the rendered content, which is exactly what gets sent to the client (thanks Marta for the idea)
What's the input for the WYSIWYG editor in this case? I think the user should be able to edit the first heading.
This is only happening in the default view mode, so it should not affect the WYSIWYG editor.
Question: do we remove the first heading only when it is the same as the document title (or when the title is empty), or do we always remove it? _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Sep 8, 2009, at 14:48, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
title should be in H1 to comply with WAI.
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size) 4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri 6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
I wonder if "compatibility mode" is really required. This may add complexity for the end user wihtout real benefit IMO. Is there really a case where a document has a first = ... = that is not the title of the document when no title has been explicitly specified ? If there is no such case, why not use a behavior like these ones: 1) When editing a document, if no title is specified and first node is a = ... =, use that node as the title and store its value in the title field. Option A: Leave the title in = ... = as well and avoid duplication on display. Option B: Remove the = ... = from the document. B1: in WYSIWYG, completely get rid of the title field, title being edited in the first = ... =, this would be more simple and more WYSIWYG and avoid 4) 2) For fixing old documents (without messing up new one): Option A: When displaying/editing a document without title and a first = ... = is available, do what 1) shoud have already done before proceeding Option B: When migrating the database, ensure that all titles are properly stored as it should have been. For providing navigation, title is really important to be easily accessible in the storage, but from the user point of view I feel that the title of a document is just the first = ... =. I usually forget to precise a title in my document, I never omit involuntarily to put an initial = ... =. Hope this helps, Denis Gervalle
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Sep 9, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 14:48, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
title should be in H1 to comply with WAI.
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size) 4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri 6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
I wonder if "compatibility mode" is really required. This may add complexity for the end user wihtout real benefit IMO. Is there really a case where a document has a first = ... = that is not the title of the document when no title has been explicitly specified ?
There is such a case: if someone uses the same header1 content as the title it should be displayed. Not doing so would be a bug. Thanks -Vincent
If there is no such case, why not use a behavior like these ones:
1) When editing a document, if no title is specified and first node is a = ... =, use that node as the title and store its value in the title field. Option A: Leave the title in = ... = as well and avoid duplication on display. Option B: Remove the = ... = from the document. B1: in WYSIWYG, completely get rid of the title field, title being edited in the first = ... =, this would be more simple and more WYSIWYG and avoid 4)
2) For fixing old documents (without messing up new one): Option A: When displaying/editing a document without title and a first = ... = is available, do what 1) shoud have already done before proceeding Option B: When migrating the database, ensure that all titles are properly stored as it should have been.
For providing navigation, title is really important to be easily accessible in the storage, but from the user point of view I feel that the title of a document is just the first = ... =. I usually forget to precise a title in my document, I never omit involuntarily to put an initial = ... =.
Hope this helps,
Denis Gervalle
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:28, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Sep 9, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 14:48, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
title should be in H1 to comply with WAI.
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size) 4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri 6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
I wonder if "compatibility mode" is really required. This may add complexity for the end user wihtout real benefit IMO. Is there really a case where a document has a first = ... = that is not the title of the document when no title has been explicitly specified ?
There is such a case: if someone uses the same header1 content as the title it should be displayed. Not doing so would be a bug.
Sure but this means that a title has been specified ! My question was, do we have a case where there is nothing in the title fields and the first H1 of the document should not be considered as the true title of the document ? My proposal has the effect of avoiding empty title and building them based on the WYSIWYG. Isolating title in a specific field is for me more an implementation issue than a user issue. Having title stored separately from the content of the document is useful for reusing it in head section, linking and navigation, not for enhancing the experience of the user during edition. My solution has the side effect to avoid compatible mode, since it does not change the behavior from the user point of view. Do you better understand my proposal now ?
Thanks -Vincent
If there is no such case, why not use a behavior like these ones:
1) When editing a document, if no title is specified and first node is a = ... =, use that node as the title and store its value in the title field. Option A: Leave the title in = ... = as well and avoid duplication on display. Option B: Remove the = ... = from the document. B1: in WYSIWYG, completely get rid of the title field, title being edited in the first = ... =, this would be more simple and more WYSIWYG and avoid 4)
2) For fixing old documents (without messing up new one): Option A: When displaying/editing a document without title and a first = ... = is available, do what 1) shoud have already done before proceeding Option B: When migrating the database, ensure that all titles are properly stored as it should have been.
For providing navigation, title is really important to be easily accessible in the storage, but from the user point of view I feel that the title of a document is just the first = ... =. I usually forget to precise a title in my document, I never omit involuntarily to put an initial = ... =.
Hope this helps,
Denis Gervalle
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Sep 9, 2009, at 1:28 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:28, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Sep 9, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 14:48, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
title should be in H1 to comply with WAI.
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size) 4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri 6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
I wonder if "compatibility mode" is really required. This may add complexity for the end user wihtout real benefit IMO. Is there really a case where a document has a first = ... = that is not the title of the document when no title has been explicitly specified ?
There is such a case: if someone uses the same header1 content as the title it should be displayed. Not doing so would be a bug.
Sure but this means that a title has been specified ! My question was, do we have a case where there is nothing in the title fields and the first H1 of the document should not be considered as the true title of the document ?
My proposal has the effect of avoiding empty title and building them based on the WYSIWYG. Isolating title in a specific field is for me more an implementation issue than a user issue. Having title stored separately from the content of the document is useful for reusing it in head section, linking and navigation, not for enhancing the experience of the user during edition.
My solution has the side effect to avoid compatible mode, since it does not change the behavior from the user point of view.
Do you better understand my proposal now ?
Good point re behavior when titles are empty. However this doesn't change the need to have a compatibility flag to decide what to do when title is set and level1 header is set with the same value. Re empty title behavior we have 2 choices I think: 1) Leave as it is now, i.e. use getDisplayTitle() 2) Make the title mandatory, set it by default to the page name when creating a page and refuse to save the page if the title is not set I also think 1) is best for now since this solves issues with existing content with no titles. Have I understood your point? Thanks -Vincent
If there is no such case, why not use a behavior like these ones:
1) When editing a document, if no title is specified and first node is a = ... =, use that node as the title and store its value in the title field. Option A: Leave the title in = ... = as well and avoid duplication on display. Option B: Remove the = ... = from the document. B1: in WYSIWYG, completely get rid of the title field, title being edited in the first = ... =, this would be more simple and more WYSIWYG and avoid 4)
2) For fixing old documents (without messing up new one): Option A: When displaying/editing a document without title and a first = ... = is available, do what 1) shoud have already done before proceeding Option B: When migrating the database, ensure that all titles are properly stored as it should have been.
For providing navigation, title is really important to be easily accessible in the storage, but from the user point of view I feel that the title of a document is just the first = ... =. I usually forget to precise a title in my document, I never omit involuntarily to put an initial = ... =.
Hope this helps,
Denis Gervalle
On Sep 9, 2009, at 13:58, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Sep 9, 2009, at 1:28 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:28, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Sep 9, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 14:48, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi everyone,
With Colibri we've started to display the doc title as the document's rendered title. This is a big change that not only affects Colibri but in general the way people write documents.
Here's what I suggest:
1) Display doc titles with <div>
title should be in H1 to comply with WAI.
2) Display document content headers using <h1>-<h6> 3) Display doc titles with a larger font size than h1 (or h1 with a smaller font size) 4) Force cursor to be in the title field when editing a new document. Force cursor in the content field when editing an existing document. This is to make it easy using the keyboard only to enter doc titles (since it's currently dead easy, we need something close in easiness) 5) Modify all our existing skins: Toucan, Albatross, Finch and Dodo so that they use they display the doc title, similarly to Colibri 6) Have a title compatibility flag in xwiki.cfg. When active, use a Javascript to do this: if there's no title specified for a page and if the first content is a H1 then use it as the page's title.
We need at least 1), 3), 6) to be able to release the Colibri skin for 2.0 final IMO.
WDYT?
I wonder if "compatibility mode" is really required. This may add complexity for the end user wihtout real benefit IMO. Is there really a case where a document has a first = ... = that is not the title of the document when no title has been explicitly specified ?
There is such a case: if someone uses the same header1 content as the title it should be displayed. Not doing so would be a bug.
Sure but this means that a title has been specified ! My question was, do we have a case where there is nothing in the title fields and the first H1 of the document should not be considered as the true title of the document ?
My proposal has the effect of avoiding empty title and building them based on the WYSIWYG. Isolating title in a specific field is for me more an implementation issue than a user issue. Having title stored separately from the content of the document is useful for reusing it in head section, linking and navigation, not for enhancing the experience of the user during edition.
My solution has the side effect to avoid compatible mode, since it does not change the behavior from the user point of view.
Do you better understand my proposal now ?
Good point re behavior when titles are empty. However this doesn't change the need to have a compatibility flag to decide what to do when title is set and level1 header is set with the same value.
Well, I agree but removing the duplicate is obviously always a good choice, no ?
Re empty title behavior we have 2 choices I think:
1) Leave as it is now, i.e. use getDisplayTitle() 2) Make the title mandatory, set it by default to the page name when creating a page and refuse to save the page if the title is not set
Why not 3), fill the title property with the first = ... = when possible ?
I also think 1) is best for now since this solves issues with existing content with no titles.
The main issue with displayTitle is a really heavy process. When you use it in navigation panels, this is really a problem. Preprocessing what displayTitle does into the title property is almost what I suggest. Currently the title property is inaccessible without instantiating the document, but this could be changed. We have written a navigation panel in Groovy recently using direct SQL, and it perform quite well compare to the native navigation, with the benefit of having meaning full document link based on titles. Note that since the title is used in head and could be used in document links, means it should remain short. Does not this also suggest that displaying the title at the top of the document does not permit the document to have a larger title. May be the duplicate of a title and a starting = ... = even with a different text is not good as well. Why not a rules saying: do not put document title if document start with a = .. = ? This general rule would avoid the compat flag, that I feel could complexity any further evolution of the title behavior. Denis
Have I understood your point?
Thanks -Vincent
If there is no such case, why not use a behavior like these ones:
1) When editing a document, if no title is specified and first node is a = ... =, use that node as the title and store its value in the title field. Option A: Leave the title in = ... = as well and avoid duplication on display. Option B: Remove the = ... = from the document. B1: in WYSIWYG, completely get rid of the title field, title being edited in the first = ... =, this would be more simple and more WYSIWYG and avoid 4)
2) For fixing old documents (without messing up new one): Option A: When displaying/editing a document without title and a first = ... = is available, do what 1) shoud have already done before proceeding Option B: When migrating the database, ensure that all titles are properly stored as it should have been.
For providing navigation, title is really important to be easily accessible in the storage, but from the user point of view I feel that the title of a document is just the first = ... =. I usually forget to precise a title in my document, I never omit involuntarily to put an initial = ... =.
Hope this helps,
Denis Gervalle
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
participants (9)
-
[Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team -
Anca Luca -
Denis Gervalle -
Ecaterina Valica -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Marta Girdea -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol