This is what I have in my custom skin: Edit: Wiki WYSIWYG Form Objects Add: New comment New attachment New subpage New space Show: Code Comments Attachments History Print: PDF Preview Admin: Delete Rename Edit class Page rights Space rights Space prefs What you can see in each menu of course depends on mode (basic/advanced) and access level, with the admin menu changing the most if you don't have admin privileges. I prefer the Admin link by the login, actually.. and the tabbed panels on that page allow easy flipping between space & global prefs. *shrug* this works, and was a happy medium between the old menus and the 1.0 menus. I'm not sure a "Space" menu makes a lot of sense from an end user perspective. On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[email protected]> wrote:

2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[email protected]>:

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Hi JV,

Great that you're working on this.

I've looked at the design page and I have some comment (BTW why is the status set to dormant, looks active to me ;)):

Yep.

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* I'd put SPACE as a top level menu instead of WATCH so that there's consistency on actions for Pages and Spaces * I'd move Watch Page to the PAGE menu * I'd move Print to the PAGE menu (since it's a Page action)

Basically I'd move all page actions to the PAGE menu and all SPACE actions to the SPACE menu. If we want one then we could add entries like Rename, Delete, Copy, Export as PDF, Export as RTF, etc.

+1, I've updated the proposal (proposal 2) :

http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring

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* We need to make the menus very simple in the simple mode so we need 2 proposals: one for the simple mode and one for the advanced mode. Also we should only display menu entries if the user has the right for executing the action.

Sure, basic vs. advanced will have to be discussed when we'll have found a consensus on the menu. Obviously we must keep the current behavior on righs check.

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* I'm not sure about the Administration menu since it duplicates the Administration button. I think I'd rather we modify the Administration screen to add more stuff. In any case we need something consistent for the admin part.

The idea here was to remove the administration link in the header to keep it only in the top bar. It allow the user to chose in one click what he want's to administrate, current space or the entire wiki.

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WDYT?

Thanks -Vincent

On Oct 9, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:

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Hi XWikiers!

We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common point : the xwiki top menu.

Features : - New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780 [incomplete jira issue] - Email notifications (aka watchlist) : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268 - RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-448 - Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14 [I'll write later about this one]

To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries in the top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of refactoring here :

http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring

WDYT ?

JV. _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee

2007/10/9, Erin Schnabel <[email protected]>:

This is what I have in my custom skin:

[snip]

What you can see in each menu of course depends on mode (basic/advanced) and access level, with the admin menu changing the most if you don't have admin privileges.

I'm not a big fan of the Admin entry (reminds me the "more actions" in xwiki < 1.0, which was a kind of hold-all)

I prefer the Admin link by the login, actually.. and the tabbed panels on that page allow easy flipping between space & global prefs.

This header link seems to be liked by most users I know. JV.

2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[email protected]>:

I'd also move the Print menu inside the Page menu as "Print this page"

Seems to me like a view mode (and print this page sounds like an action), I'd move it to the SHOW entry. I've made a new proposal (kind of synthesis between the 2 predecessors), can be seen here : http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu

I'd remove the Access Rights from the Edit menu and move it inside the Administration Panel.

Administration menu entry I guess, BTW since most users prefer to keep the administration outside the menu WDYT about the new proposal (into the PAGE entry).

I think I prefer to keep the Administration link as it is now for 3 reasons: 1) It keeps the menu simpler and we don't need as much space for it 2) Users are used to it 3) Admin is different from the rest of the actions so we have the top menu bar for users and the admin separate for admins

I personnaly have a con about the header link, it makes the space admin unavailable directly from the view mode but, vox populi vox dei (and vox projectus leaderus vox dei² ;). JV.

On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[email protected]> wrote:

2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[email protected]>:

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I'd also move the Print menu inside the Page menu as "Print this page"

Print should be kept as print. Whether it's a "view" or not, "Print" makes sense to users, and a print to PDF vs. print preview is very natural. Changing "Print" to "Export" or "Show" only makes sense to we programmers. Other export could go under the "Page" menu, though I don't particularly like that as a menu header.. "Page Actions" or just "Actions". I know the "More Actions" was a hodge-podge, but it was a nice hodge-podge, and a lot of users found that pretty obvious to use. I called the "More Actions" hodge-podge "Admin" in my new skin because it was more "Admin-ish" kinds of actions, where the edit/show/add/print actions were classified appropriately. Also, having rename and delete under "Admin" kept them in an intuitive location, while at the same time making it less likely that they would be accidentally clicked. If it becomes a "Page Actions" ("Page" by itself just seems wrong, but I don't like "Page Actions" either), then having Copy, Rename, Delete, and Access rights all under that make sense. I don't think "Watch this space" or "Watch this page" need to be anywhere in particular. Most of the modern browsers find any RSS feed links on the page w/o intervention, and I've always found that a more obvious link (in a panel, for example) is more effective than tucking the "Watch" URL's in one of those menus.. Unless "Watch" means something other than I think it does. -- 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee

Hello, I'm pretty much convinced by JV's ideas on http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu. I would however propose the following minor changes : * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this disable notification feature will be) * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me :) Jérôme.

2007/10/9, Erin Schnabel <[email protected]>:

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On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[email protected]> wrote:

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2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[email protected]>:

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I'd also move the Print menu inside the Page menu as "Print this

page"

Print should be kept as print. Whether it's a "view" or not, "Print" makes sense to users, and a print to PDF vs. print preview is very natural. Changing "Print" to "Export" or "Show" only makes sense to we programmers.

Would agree if the print link was like all the print buttons we see everywhere, a javascript call to the navigator print action, which is not the case.

(disclosure : i'm -1 for having this link, don't see where it can be useful when in the end you'll have to go to File>Print to actually print).

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Other export could go under the "Page" menu, though I don't particularly like that as a menu header.. "Page Actions" or just "Actions". I know the "More Actions" was a hodge-podge, but it was a nice hodge-podge, and a lot of users found that pretty obvious to use. I called the "More Actions" hodge-podge "Admin" in my new skin because it was more "Admin-ish" kinds of actions, where the edit/show/add/print actions were classified appropriately.

Hope this thread won't end up in a hodge-podge VS. anti-hodge-podge fight :) I still hope we can find a solution to avoid a hodge-podge in the action menu.

(but if we have to have one I'd call it "Actions")

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Also, having rename and delete under "Admin" kept them in an intuitive location, while at the same time making it less likely that they would be accidentally clicked.

Reminder : it'd be great if we can all forget about having an Admin entry in the action menu, we'll see that later.

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If it becomes a "Page Actions" ("Page" by itself just seems wrong, but I don't like "Page Actions" either), then having Copy, Rename, Delete, and Access rights all under that make sense.

Yep, if it becomes a "Page Actions".

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I don't think "Watch this space" or "Watch this page" need to be anywhere in particular. Most of the modern browsers find any RSS feed links on the page w/o intervention, and I've always found that a more obvious link (in a panel, for example) is more effective than tucking the "Watch" URL's in one of those menus.. Unless "Watch" means something other than I think it does.

The watch feature isn't about RSS, it's about building a list of pages you want to watch and receive notifications about (both email & RSS), I'll write about that later. _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hi, I like very much the "proposal 3". I think the most XWiki is viewed as a real "application" the better is it for user. Just one thing this more technical, I don't know how works the menu but I would prefer to have more level for example FILE->Export->PDF, FILE->Export->RDF because FILE menu is too long I think it is easier to add more exports as plugins for example. 2007/10/10, Jean-Vincent Drean <[email protected]>:

2007/10/10, [email protected] <[email protected]>:

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* With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this disable notification feature will be)

You'll like my last proposal ;)

http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposa...

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* I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me :)

Yes, may be ;)

JV. _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- Thomas Mortagne

2007/10/11, Vincent Massol <[email protected]>:

Hi,

I've just reviewed this last proposal and here are my comments:

* I'm -1 on naming the menu entry "File" unless someone convinces me... Right now I don't understand the rationale. Why not call it "Orange Juice"? ;)

I'm -1 for "File" too, "Page seems more appropriate"

* I hate those Microsoft menu entries! ;)

Ok so let's talk about mozilla menu entries then ;)

* Don't put CTRL+P in the menu (since the keys are different depending on the OS)

Ok

* Edit menu should be on the left since it's the most used menu

I was waiting for someone to raise this one, I'm testing the proposal 3 on my local xwiki and I confirm that it's annoying for people accustomed to the edit at the left.

* Not sure why we're changing "Show" to "View". Show looks fine to me and since it's been around for some time why change it?

This proposal was an attempt of a more desktopish layout. (Page/Edit/View). BTW i never liked "Show" ;)

* I don't like the Watchlist menu entry. This is a very specific application and I'm not sure why it gets its own menu entry compared to other applications.

Page/Edit/View wait for it.. Bookmarks -> File/Edit/View/Watchlist (since bookmark doesn't fit here).

* I'd be fine with keeping the current Edit and Show menus and collapse the Delete, Rename and other actions into an "Actions" menu (or "Other actions")

-1 for the hodge-podge until we had discussed all the other options ;) JV.

Yes the Admin space has already been abandonned. I've made a mistake in a previous email but the discussion about the "Administration" is : - here : make a link in the top bar instead of in the header ? - in the XWiki.WebHome topic : remove the content of the XWiki.WebHome page and only rely on the admin action for administration ? 2007/10/9, Erin Schnabel <[email protected]>:

Maybe I'm crazy... but I seem to remember before that we were going to abandon the Admin space, as it (essentially) duplicated the XWiki space?

On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[email protected]> wrote:

...

Hi XWikiers!

We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common point : the xwiki top menu.

Features : - New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780 [incomplete jira issue] - Email notifications (aka watchlist) : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268 - RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-448 - Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14 [I'll write later about this one]

To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries in the top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of refactoring here :

http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring

WDYT ?

JV. _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs