[xwiki-devs] Fwd: [xwiki-users] Re-organize the Drawer's entries
OK so now it's a bit more than only re-organizing the drawer's entries. Your proposition is also about removing some elements, and renaming some of them. We are more closer to your original issue ( http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XE-1582). It's a big change that we usually don't do at the end of a development cycle. Concerning its content, and more precisely the renaming of the items, I would love to read the opinion of committers. For example, I agree it looks more natural to see "All users" than "User Index" or "All other wikis" instead of "Wiki Index" in a subwiki, but it breaks the famous consistency principle we tend to have. I also like "Settings" instead of "Administration", but we could even go deeper and say "Settings of the wiki" to not confuse with "User Settings". You also propose a "Recent Changes" item, which could lead to the Activity Stream. Should I open a new discussion about this? For now, I could change the order of the elements, and introduce 2 categories: "items concerning the current wiki", and "items concerning the main wiki". It's already a breakage from the UI Extension API point of view. Thanks, 2016-11-03 10:01 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]>:
Yes Miroslav, we have received your message. Thanks you :)
2016-11-02 23:13 GMT+01:00 Miroslav Galajda <[email protected]>:
Hi, I've sent an email with preference for P5, last week. Have you received it?
P5 seems to me clean and logical to work with.
Thanks Mirec
On 2 November 2016 at 11:23, Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello.
Thanks for your comments. Any other?
Guillaume
2016-10-26 17:03 GMT+02:00 Jan-Paul Kleijn <[email protected]>:
P5 is also my favorite because it draws more attention to the content. It's the more grown-up version.
Op 26-10-2016 om 10:28 schreef Guillaume Delhumeau:
No opinion?
2016-10-24 18:09 GMT+02:00 Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]>:
Hello dear developers and XWiki users.
I would you to take a look at the issue
XWIKI-13070.
The problem is that the current order (that I have implemented based on my intuition) seems to not be clear for our users. The main point is that the menu mixes up global items (Home wiki, Wiki Index) and local ones (Administer Wiki, Page Index, Delete wiki, etc...).
Caty and Oliver have made some proposals that you could find in the issue.
They are called P1, P2, P3, P4 and P5.
I propose you to express your preferences so we can implement it based on a consensus.
Here are mine:
P1: There is a logical order and separation between item. However, it seems the more used actions (Wiki Index, Page Index) are less visible than some other (Delete Wiki, Create Wiki...)
P2: The order and the separation are logic. The "delete wiki" action is still very visible but all other items are good.
P3: Same than P2. Except that having "Wiki Index" along with "User, Page and Application Index" mixes up local and global items.
P4: Why not, but maybe the 3 first actions should be placed after the other ones, since they would be less used. Same remark about the mixing of local and global items.
P5: A clear distinction between local and global scope. More used items are located first. This is my favorite one.
So +1 for P5, +0 for the other options so far.
Now, what about you?
Thanks, Guillaume
PS: I send this message to both devs and users mailing lists, because I think users are directly concerned by this topic.
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project -- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
According to your suggestions, I have started some iterations in a real wiki. Proposition 8, iteration 1 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33243/P8_iter1.png * Same wording * Separation between wiki-related items and global items * Remove "Home", because it's already in the breadcrumb and it is not necessary to have it in this "often used features" menu. "Create Wiki" and "Delete Wiki", because it should be done inside the Wiki Index. Proposition 8, iteration 2 ================== On subwiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33245/P8_iter2.png On main wiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33246/P8_iter2_mainwiki.png * Same but with a more human wording * Applications is displayed before users, because I think we more often need to use an app than we need to see other users Proposition 8, iteration 3 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33247/P8_iter3.png * Same but introduced the "Recent Changes" entry (leads to an Activity Stream maybe) My conclusions === * Better look & feel * More human wording * Only feature we need often Is it going in the right direction? Thanks, Guillaume
FTR I don’t think it’s a good idea to change existing terminology at this point (in XWiki 8.4.x). It’s a huge amount of work to be consistent across the board, including changing a huge number of documentation pages on xwiki.org. By terminology I mean for example Administration -> Settings, etc. I’m in favor of doing some reorganization of items but without changing terminology FTM. Thanks -Vincent
On 15 Nov 2016, at 15:18, Guillaume Delhumeau <[email protected]> wrote:
According to your suggestions, I have started some iterations in a real wiki.
Proposition 8, iteration 1 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33243/P8_iter1.png
* Same wording * Separation between wiki-related items and global items * Remove "Home", because it's already in the breadcrumb and it is not necessary to have it in this "often used features" menu. "Create Wiki" and "Delete Wiki", because it should be done inside the Wiki Index.
Proposition 8, iteration 2 ================== On subwiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33245/P8_iter2.png
On main wiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33246/P8_iter2_mainwiki.png
* Same but with a more human wording * Applications is displayed before users, because I think we more often need to use an app than we need to see other users
Proposition 8, iteration 3 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33247/P8_iter3.png
* Same but introduced the "Recent Changes" entry (leads to an Activity Stream maybe)
My conclusions ===
* Better look & feel * More human wording * Only feature we need often
Is it going in the right direction?
Thanks, Guillaume _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]> wrote:
According to your suggestions, I have started some iterations in a real wiki.
Proposition 8, iteration 1 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33243/P8_iter1.png
* Same wording * Separation between wiki-related items and global items * Remove "Home", because it's already in the breadcrumb and it is not necessary to have it in this "often used features" menu. "Create Wiki" and "Delete Wiki", because it should be done inside the Wiki Index.
Proposition 8, iteration 2 ================== On subwiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33245/P8_iter2.png
On main wiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33246/P8_iter2_mainwiki.png
* Same but with a more human wording * Applications is displayed before users, because I think we more often need to use an app than we need to see other users
Proposition 8, iteration 3 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33247/P8_iter3.png
"All wikis" is not an action. I find it strange to see it under "Global actions". Maybe "Manage wikis" is better, i.e. use a verb. Thanks, Marius
* Same but introduced the "Recent Changes" entry (leads to an Activity Stream maybe)
My conclusions ===
* Better look & feel * More human wording * Only feature we need often
Is it going in the right direction?
Thanks, Guillaume _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Or we could rename "Global actions" with "Global" or "Global Items". 2016-11-16 16:08 GMT+01:00 Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]>:
On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]> wrote:
According to your suggestions, I have started some iterations in a real wiki.
Proposition 8, iteration 1 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33243/P8_iter1.png
* Same wording * Separation between wiki-related items and global items * Remove "Home", because it's already in the breadcrumb and it is not necessary to have it in this "often used features" menu. "Create Wiki" and "Delete Wiki", because it should be done inside the Wiki Index.
Proposition 8, iteration 2 ================== On subwiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33245/P8_iter2.png
On main wiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33246/P8_iter2_mainwiki.png
* Same but with a more human wording * Applications is displayed before users, because I think we more often need to use an app than we need to see other users
Proposition 8, iteration 3 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33247/P8_iter3.png
"All wikis" is not an action. I find it strange to see it under "Global actions". Maybe "Manage wikis" is better, i.e. use a verb.
Thanks, Marius
* Same but introduced the "Recent Changes" entry (leads to an Activity Stream maybe)
My conclusions ===
* Better look & feel * More human wording * Only feature we need often
Is it going in the right direction?
Thanks, Guillaume _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]> wrote:
According to your suggestions, I have started some iterations in a real wiki.
Proposition 8, iteration 1 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33243/P8_iter1.png
* Same wording * Separation between wiki-related items and global items * Remove "Home", because it's already in the breadcrumb and it is not necessary to have it in this "often used features" menu. "Create Wiki" and "Delete Wiki", because it should be done inside the Wiki Index.
Some remarks: - We don't use officially the "subwiki" term. We have just "Wiki", see http://markmail.org/message/cehvpds5qmljq5f7 - In Olivier's proposal there was also the name of the subwiki which was somehow interesting - There is an inconsistency between "Subwiki" and "Global actions" ... they should be similar in terms of naming structure (with or without "actions") - If you remove "Create wiki" and "Delete wiki" then I don't see such a need for the "subwiki-global" separation, since "Wiki Index" will be lonely -- We said we move "Create wiki" in the Wiki Index, but there we will have other problems in terms of displaying the option: will be make it part of the Create step? Do we create a separate button for it? How do we display it? - For wikis that allow just local users, the breadcrumb home doesn't take you to the Global home, but removing "Home" won't impact in this case, since apparently we don't display Home at all in this case. The problem is that for these cases, the users won't know how to go back to the main wiki.
Proposition 8, iteration 2 ================== On subwiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33245/P8_iter2.png
On main wiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33246/P8_iter2_mainwiki.png
* Same but with a more human wording * Applications is displayed before users, because I think we more often need to use an app than we need to see other users
- Administration is a "human" wording and also it's used across our documentation and interface. Also it goes hand in hand with the Administrator user. I don't see big improvements in changing to the "Settings" wording. - There is a problem with "All Users" since in some setups, where you have local users, that link won't take you to "all" users. Again hard to say that it's really a correct separation. - Regarding the order, we should define a rule. It could either be alphabetical or usage (although that is hard to compute). With the mention that extremes are easier to access. So for example first and last items in a list are easier to access than intermediary items: so placing users after applications, because applications are more used, it will have the consequence that, being the last item in the list, it will make Users be easily to access than Applications.
Proposition 8, iteration 3 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33247/P8_iter3.png
* Same but introduced the "Recent Changes" entry (leads to an Activity Stream maybe)
- Regarding the "Recent Changes" this could be see as application, so it could be available in the Application Index (kind of is, but as part of Dashboard).
My conclusions ===
- The problem is that if I read my comments and I remove the P8's subwiki/global separation (since Wiki Index is alone) + remove the "Create and Delete wiki" since we say they will be available in Wiki Index, remove the Home navigation since we rely on breadcrumbs, plus we keep the same wording, but maybe change a bit the Index order, we will have P9: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33250/P9.png And it doesn't quite have much of a change in it if we compare it to the current version. This might be good or bad. Following Jan-Paul comment that we should not advertise for 'Delete wiki' and that 'Create wiki' is very rare, we might say P9 contains just the needed elements: Administration + Indexes. Since the only difference between simple users and admins would be the "Administration", we could have it last as P9.1 + try a simpler naming: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33251/P9.1.png But now we will need to find a way to Create wikis. --- Now regarding Index naming. If we use: - Manage: for example "Manage Wikis", it will be harder to make it consistent with the other Indexes, since for example User Index does not provide the management setting (they are in administration). Also for simple users, manage verb doesn't mean anything. - All: all is complicated for farm setup, where "All Users" might mean just local users, same for Applications and Pages, since they are just local, so they are not all. - Index: it is a bit more ambiguous, but it better satisfy the duality of content. - //simple: Having just "Pages", "Users", etc. can be also a solution. --- Regarding Olivier's comment about "Recent changes" (in P7). I agree that the majority of wikis provide it, still we should find a solution to what will we present to the user (Olivier suggested a livetable so I guess he doesn't know our Activity Stream). Will it redirect to Main.Activity? Which one? The local or the global one? It could be the global one since we display the wiki prefixes, but I guess this again depends on the type of wiki you are located in. Regarding P7 I don't like it especially because it's removing Page Index (and relies on a panel that can be change depending on the current Flavor) and removes Application Index (with the rationale that AppBar is complete, which it isn't and again the panels can be easily changed). Thanks, Caty
* Better look & feel * More human wording * Only feature we need often
Is it going in the right direction?
Thanks, Guillaume _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
2016-11-17 16:18 GMT+01:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]>:
On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]> wrote:
According to your suggestions, I have started some iterations in a real wiki.
Proposition 8, iteration 1 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33243/P8_iter1.png
* Same wording * Separation between wiki-related items and global items * Remove "Home", because it's already in the breadcrumb and it is not necessary to have it in this "often used features" menu. "Create Wiki" and "Delete Wiki", because it should be done inside the Wiki Index.
Some remarks: - We don't use officially the "subwiki" term. We have just "Wiki", see http://markmail.org/message/cehvpds5qmljq5f7 - In Olivier's proposal there was also the name of the subwiki which was somehow interesting
Sorry, it was not clear from my screenshots, but my subwiki was actually called "Subwiki". The plan is to use the name of the wiki.
- There is an inconsistency between "Subwiki" and "Global actions" ... they should be similar in terms of naming structure (with or without "actions") - If you remove "Create wiki" and "Delete wiki" then I don't see such a need for the "subwiki-global" separation, since "Wiki Index" will be lonely -- We said we move "Create wiki" in the Wiki Index, but there we will have other problems in terms of displaying the option: will be make it part of the Create step? Do we create a separate button for it? How do we display it? - For wikis that allow just local users, the breadcrumb home doesn't take you to the Global home, but removing "Home" won't impact in this case, since apparently we don't display Home at all in this case. The problem is that for these cases, the users won't know how to go back to the main wiki.
Proposition 8, iteration 2 ================== On subwiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33245/P8_iter2.png
On main wiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33246/P8_iter2_mainwiki.png
* Same but with a more human wording * Applications is displayed before users, because I think we more often need to use an app than we need to see other users
- Administration is a "human" wording and also it's used across our documentation and interface. Also it goes hand in hand with the Administrator user. I don't see big improvements in changing to the "Settings" wording. - There is a problem with "All Users" since in some setups, where you have local users, that link won't take you to "all" users. Again hard to say that it's really a correct separation. - Regarding the order, we should define a rule. It could either be alphabetical or usage (although that is hard to compute). With the mention that extremes are easier to access. So for example first and last items in a list are easier to access than intermediary items: so placing users after applications, because applications are more used, it will have the consequence that, being the last item in the list, it will make Users be easily to access than Applications.
Proposition 8, iteration 3 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33247/P8_iter3.png
* Same but introduced the "Recent Changes" entry (leads to an Activity Stream maybe)
- Regarding the "Recent Changes" this could be see as application, so it could be available in the Application Index (kind of is, but as part of Dashboard).
My conclusions ===
- The problem is that if I read my comments and I remove the P8's subwiki/global separation (since Wiki Index is alone) + remove the "Create and Delete wiki" since we say they will be available in Wiki Index, remove the Home navigation since we rely on breadcrumbs, plus we keep the same wording, but maybe change a bit the Index order, we will have P9: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33250/P9.png
And it doesn't quite have much of a change in it if we compare it to the current version. This might be good or bad. Following Jan-Paul comment that we should not advertise for 'Delete wiki' and that 'Create wiki' is very rare, we might say P9 contains just the needed elements: Administration + Indexes.
Since the only difference between simple users and admins would be the "Administration", we could have it last as P9.1 + try a simpler naming: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33251/P9.1.png
But now we will need to find a way to Create wikis.
---
Now regarding Index naming. If we use: - Manage: for example "Manage Wikis", it will be harder to make it consistent with the other Indexes, since for example User Index does not provide the management setting (they are in administration). Also for simple users, manage verb doesn't mean anything. - All: all is complicated for farm setup, where "All Users" might mean just local users, same for Applications and Pages, since they are just local, so they are not all. - Index: it is a bit more ambiguous, but it better satisfy the duality of content. - //simple: Having just "Pages", "Users", etc. can be also a solution.
---
Regarding Olivier's comment about "Recent changes" (in P7). I agree that the majority of wikis provide it, still we should find a solution to what will we present to the user (Olivier suggested a livetable so I guess he doesn't know our Activity Stream). Will it redirect to Main.Activity? Which one? The local or the global one? It could be the global one since we display the wiki prefixes, but I guess this again depends on the type of wiki you are located in.
Regarding P7 I don't like it especially because it's removing Page Index (and relies on a panel that can be change depending on the current Flavor) and removes Application Index (with the rationale that AppBar is complete, which it isn't and again the panels can be easily changed).
Thanks, Caty
* Better look & feel * More human wording * Only feature we need often
Is it going in the right direction?
Thanks, Guillaume _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
2016-11-17 16:18 GMT+01:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]>:
On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]> wrote:
According to your suggestions, I have started some iterations in a real wiki.
Proposition 8, iteration 1 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33243/P8_iter1.png
* Same wording * Separation between wiki-related items and global items * Remove "Home", because it's already in the breadcrumb and it is not necessary to have it in this "often used features" menu. "Create Wiki" and "Delete Wiki", because it should be done inside the Wiki Index.
Some remarks: - We don't use officially the "subwiki" term. We have just "Wiki", see http://markmail.org/message/cehvpds5qmljq5f7 - In Olivier's proposal there was also the name of the subwiki which was somehow interesting - There is an inconsistency between "Subwiki" and "Global actions" ... they should be similar in terms of naming structure (with or without "actions") - If you remove "Create wiki" and "Delete wiki" then I don't see such a need for the "subwiki-global" separation, since "Wiki Index" will be lonely
I don't see this as a problem. An item could be lonely.
-- We said we move "Create wiki" in the Wiki Index, but there we will have other problems in terms of displaying the option: will be make it part of the Create step? Do we create a separate button for it? How do we display it?
I don't understand your question. Previously, we had a "Create wiki" link in the Wiki Index. We have removed it because we put it into the Create button instead when that button was on the top bar. Now we don't have the add button on the top bar anymore, so the "Create Wiki" link could go back to the Wiki Index.
- For wikis that allow just local users, the breadcrumb home doesn't take you to the Global home, but removing "Home" won't impact in this case, since apparently we don't display Home at all in this case. The problem is that for these cases, the users won't know how to go back to the main wiki.
Yes, it's a "feature" :) On a farm, the system administrator may want to hide the other wikis to the users. For example, if your farm host a "cocacola" and a "pepsi" wiki, you could decide to hide this fact to their users :)
Proposition 8, iteration 2 ================== On subwiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33245/P8_iter2.png
On main wiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33246/P8_iter2_mainwiki.png
* Same but with a more human wording * Applications is displayed before users, because I think we more often need to use an app than we need to see other users
- Administration is a "human" wording and also it's used across our documentation and interface. Also it goes hand in hand with the Administrator user. I don't see big improvements in changing to the "Settings" wording. - There is a problem with "All Users" since in some setups, where you have local users, that link won't take you to "all" users. Again hard to say that it's really a correct separation. - Regarding the order, we should define a rule. It could either be alphabetical or usage (although that is hard to compute). With the mention that extremes are easier to access. So for example first and last items in a list are easier to access than intermediary items: so placing users after applications, because applications are more used, it will have the consequence that, being the last item in the list, it will make Users be easily to access than Applications.
Proposition 8, iteration 3 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33247/P8_iter3.png
* Same but introduced the "Recent Changes" entry (leads to an Activity Stream maybe)
- Regarding the "Recent Changes" this could be see as application, so it could be available in the Application Index (kind of is, but as part of Dashboard).
I still believe it make sense to have it here. It would be the a link to the Activity Steam of the current wiki (since it's on the local items category).
My conclusions ===
- The problem is that if I read my comments and I remove the P8's subwiki/global separation (since Wiki Index is alone) + remove the "Create and Delete wiki" since we say they will be available in Wiki Index, remove the Home navigation since we rely on breadcrumbs, plus we keep the same wording, but maybe change a bit the Index order, we will have P9: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33250/P9.png
And it doesn't quite have much of a change in it if we compare it to the current version. This might be good or bad. Following Jan-Paul comment that we should not advertise for 'Delete wiki' and that 'Create wiki' is very rare, we might say P9 contains just the needed elements: Administration + Indexes.
Indeed, it's a bit disappointing...
Since the only difference between simple users and admins would be the "Administration", we could have it last as P9.1 + try a simpler naming: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33251/P9.1.png
But now we will need to find a way to Create wikis.
---
Now regarding Index naming. If we use: - Manage: for example "Manage Wikis", it will be harder to make it consistent with the other Indexes, since for example User Index does not provide the management setting (they are in administration). Also for simple users, manage verb doesn't mean anything. - All: all is complicated for farm setup, where "All Users" might mean just local users, same for Applications and Pages, since they are just local, so they are not all. - Index: it is a bit more ambiguous, but it better satisfy the duality of content. - //simple: Having just "Pages", "Users", etc. can be also a solution.
---
Regarding Olivier's comment about "Recent changes" (in P7). I agree that the majority of wikis provide it, still we should find a solution to what will we present to the user (Olivier suggested a livetable so I guess he doesn't know our Activity Stream). Will it redirect to Main.Activity? Which one? The local or the global one? It could be the global one since we display the wiki prefixes, but I guess this again depends on the type of wiki you are located in.
Regarding P7 I don't like it especially because it's removing Page Index (and relies on a panel that can be change depending on the current Flavor) and removes Application Index (with the rationale that AppBar is complete, which it isn't and again the panels can be easily changed).
Thanks, Caty
* Better look & feel * More human wording * Only feature we need often
Is it going in the right direction?
Thanks, Guillaume _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]> wrote:
2016-11-17 16:18 GMT+01:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]>:
On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < [email protected]> wrote:
According to your suggestions, I have started some iterations in a real wiki.
Proposition 8, iteration 1 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33243/P8_iter1.png
* Same wording * Separation between wiki-related items and global items * Remove "Home", because it's already in the breadcrumb and it is not necessary to have it in this "often used features" menu. "Create Wiki" and "Delete Wiki", because it should be done inside the Wiki Index.
Some remarks: - We don't use officially the "subwiki" term. We have just "Wiki", see http://markmail.org/message/cehvpds5qmljq5f7 - In Olivier's proposal there was also the name of the subwiki which was somehow interesting - There is an inconsistency between "Subwiki" and "Global actions" ... they should be similar in terms of naming structure (with or without "actions") - If you remove "Create wiki" and "Delete wiki" then I don't see such a need for the "subwiki-global" separation, since "Wiki Index" will be lonely
I don't see this as a problem. An item could be lonely.
-- We said we move "Create wiki" in the Wiki Index, but there we will have other problems in terms of displaying the option: will be make it part of the Create step? Do we create a separate button for it? How do we display it?
I don't understand your question. Previously, we had a "Create wiki" link in the Wiki Index. We have removed it because we put it into the Create button instead when that button was on the top bar.
Now we don't have the add button on the top bar anymore, so the "Create Wiki" link could go back to the Wiki Index.
- For wikis that allow just local users, the breadcrumb home doesn't take you to the Global home, but removing "Home" won't impact in this case, since apparently we don't display Home at all in this case. The problem is that for these cases, the users won't know how to go back to the main wiki.
Yes, it's a "feature" :) On a farm, the system administrator may want to hide the other wikis to the users. For example, if your farm host a "cocacola" and a "pepsi" wiki, you could decide to hide this fact to their users :)
Proposition 8, iteration 2 ================== On subwiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33245/P8_iter2.png
On main wiki: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33246/P8_iter2_mainwiki.png
* Same but with a more human wording * Applications is displayed before users, because I think we more often need to use an app than we need to see other users
- Administration is a "human" wording and also it's used across our documentation and interface. Also it goes hand in hand with the Administrator user. I don't see big improvements in changing to the "Settings" wording. - There is a problem with "All Users" since in some setups, where you
have
local users, that link won't take you to "all" users. Again hard to say that it's really a correct separation. - Regarding the order, we should define a rule. It could either be alphabetical or usage (although that is hard to compute). With the mention that extremes are easier to access. So for example first and last items in a list are easier to access than intermediary items: so placing users after applications, because applications are more used, it will have the consequence that, being the last item in the list, it will make Users be easily to access than Applications.
Proposition 8, iteration 3 ================== http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33247/P8_iter3.png
* Same but introduced the "Recent Changes" entry (leads to an Activity Stream maybe)
- Regarding the "Recent Changes" this could be see as application, so it could be available in the Application Index (kind of is, but as part of Dashboard).
I still believe it make sense to have it here. It would be the a link to the Activity Steam of the current wiki (since it's on the local items category).
My conclusions ===
- The problem is that if I read my comments and I remove the P8's subwiki/global separation (since Wiki Index is alone) + remove the
"Create
and Delete wiki" since we say they will be available in Wiki Index, remove the Home navigation since we rely on breadcrumbs, plus we keep the same wording, but maybe change a bit the Index order, we will have P9: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33250/P9.png
And it doesn't quite have much of a change in it if we compare it to the current version. This might be good or bad. Following Jan-Paul comment that we should not advertise for 'Delete wiki' and that 'Create wiki' is very rare, we might say P9 contains just the needed elements: Administration + Indexes.
Indeed, it's a bit disappointing...
Yes, it seems disappointing. Now depends what the objective is: having a redesign of the Drawer or simplifying it.
Since the only difference between simple users and admins would be the "Administration", we could have it last as P9.1 + try a simpler naming: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33251/P9.1.png
But now we will need to find a way to Create wikis.
---
Now regarding Index naming. If we use: - Manage: for example "Manage Wikis", it will be harder to make it consistent with the other Indexes, since for example User Index does not provide the management setting (they are in administration). Also for simple users, manage verb doesn't mean anything. - All: all is complicated for farm setup, where "All Users" might mean
just
local users, same for Applications and Pages, since they are just local, so they are not all. - Index: it is a bit more ambiguous, but it better satisfy the duality of content. - //simple: Having just "Pages", "Users", etc. can be also a solution.
---
Regarding Olivier's comment about "Recent changes" (in P7). I agree that the majority of wikis provide it, still we should find a solution to what will we present to the user (Olivier suggested a livetable so I guess he doesn't know our Activity Stream). Will it redirect to Main.Activity? Which one? The local or the global one? It could be the global one since we display the wiki prefixes, but I guess this again depends on the type of wiki you are located in.
Regarding P7 I don't like it especially because it's removing Page Index (and relies on a panel that can be change depending on the current Flavor) and removes Application Index (with the rationale that AppBar is complete, which it isn't and again the panels can be easily changed).
Thanks, Caty
* Better look & feel * More human wording * Only feature we need often
Is it going in the right direction?
Thanks, Guillaume _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hello. I have added P8_iter4: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33255/P8_iter4.png I also have made a comparison with P9: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33256/P8_vs_P9.png To be short: - The distinction between local and global links makes sense and helps the user to understand the scope of the Index he's going to reach. - It's not because you have only one apple and several oranges that you can mix them together, ie. it's not a problem to have only one element on the "global" section (and extensions can provide more). - I have not change the wording of the items because the objective is to merge this change in 8.4.x, and we won't update documentation everywhere in such a short time. Maybe the "Main wiki" wording is not the good one, because it will not help distinguish local actions from global ones when you are on the main wiki. This is why I propose P8_iter5: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33258/P8_iter5.png With this version it's not clear that the Main Wiki has influence on the subwikis (regarding rights for example) but it's already a nice improvement and the drawer remains the same across wikis. I hope you will like this proposition and agree with my arguments, Thanks, Guillaume
participants (4)
-
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Guillaume Delhumeau -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Vincent Massol