[xwiki-devs] [Proposal] XWiki 2.0 syntax : going further on the syntax overhaul
Hi XWikiers, Those last months we've discussed a lot about precise elements of the new XWiki 2.0 syntax : - usage of 2 chars for **bold** and [[links]] - {{macro/}} syntax - Linebreaks on carriage returns - Linking to attachments/Insert link to image - |table| syntax - styling syntax - emoticons So far the idea was to keep the xwiki/2.0 syntax as close as possible from xwiki/1.0. IMHO we've reached a point where xwiki/2.0 is so different from xwiki/1.0 that it could be the occasion to go further and replace our few radeox leftovers by their widespread equivalent. That's the first thing I'd like to discuss, do we all agree to make other substantial modifications to xwiki/2.0 ? Here's my +1. Being completely in line with Creole [1] or WikiSyntaxCommon [2] is not an option since we've already made some incompatible choices (like linebreaks on carriage returns) and it would imply a big amount of work now that the new rendering is approaching a stable state. That's the reason why this proposal is about 2 basic (and important) wiki syntax elements, those 2 modifications would make xwiki syntax familiar to wikiPowerUsers. 1) Usage of // instead of ~~ for italic Creole rationale : A slash (/) looks like slanted italics, so it is intuitive and thus easier to remember. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/BoldAndItalicsReasoning Note : on all the keyboard mappings I know slashes are more easily reachable than ~. Here's my +1. 2) Usage of equal signs instead of 1./1.1/etc for Headings Creole rationale : Using equal signs (=) is the most popular wiki header markup. Since there are more equal signs for smaller headers, subheaders will become more indented making it easier to get a visual overview from the markup alone. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/HeadingsReasoning Note : We've experienced problems in the past with the 1/1.1 syntax (bad document section computation, problems with table cells starting with 1, etc) but those problems are addressed in the new rendering. Anyway I think users are more likely to unintentionaly start a line with a 1 than a = (like in "1 is more than 2" in the middle of a paragraph). What I personnaly like with this syntax is that it makes sections very visible when editing a page in wiki mode. About unclosed titles : === Also level 3 === Also level 3 = === Also level 3 == a) Don't interpret them +0. b) Interpret them but make closed title our default (generated by wysiwyg) +1, as I wrote above I think that having clear sections in a page helps to navigate in edit mode. c) Interpret them and make it our default -0. [1] : http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0 [2] : http://code.google.com/p/wikimodel/wiki/WikiSyntaxCommon Thanks, JV.
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi XWikiers,
Those last months we've discussed a lot about precise elements of the new XWiki 2.0 syntax : - usage of 2 chars for **bold** and [[links]] - {{macro/}} syntax - Linebreaks on carriage returns - Linking to attachments/Insert link to image - |table| syntax - styling syntax - emoticons
So far the idea was to keep the xwiki/2.0 syntax as close as possible from xwiki/1.0. IMHO we've reached a point where xwiki/2.0 is so different from xwiki/1.0 that it could be the occasion to go further and replace our few radeox leftovers by their widespread equivalent. That's the first thing I'd like to discuss, do we all agree to make other substantial modifications to xwiki/2.0 ?
Here's my +1.
+1
Being completely in line with Creole [1] or WikiSyntaxCommon [2] is not an option since we've already made some incompatible choices (like linebreaks on carriage returns) and it would imply a big amount of work now that the new rendering is approaching a stable state. That's the reason why this proposal is about 2 basic (and important) wiki syntax elements, those 2 modifications would make xwiki syntax familiar to wikiPowerUsers.
1) Usage of // instead of ~~ for italic
Creole rationale : A slash (/) looks like slanted italics, so it is intuitive and thus easier to remember. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/BoldAndItalicsReasoning Note : on all the keyboard mappings I know slashes are more easily reachable than ~.
Here's my +1.
+1
2) Usage of equal signs instead of 1./1.1/etc for Headings
Creole rationale : Using equal signs (=) is the most popular wiki header markup. Since there are more equal signs for smaller headers, subheaders will become more indented making it easier to get a visual overview from the markup alone. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/HeadingsReasoning
Note : We've experienced problems in the past with the 1/1.1 syntax (bad document section computation, problems with table cells starting with 1, etc) but those problems are addressed in the new rendering. Anyway I think users are more likely to unintentionaly start a line with a 1 than a = (like in "1 is more than 2" in the middle of a paragraph). What I personnaly like with this syntax is that it makes sections very visible when editing a page in wiki mode.
About unclosed titles :
=== Also level 3 === Also level 3 = === Also level 3 ==
a) Don't interpret them
+0.
+1, safer to be based on "==" than "\n" for the end of title IMO
b) Interpret them but make closed title our default (generated by wysiwyg)
+1, as I wrote above I think that having clear sections in a page helps to navigate in edit mode.
-0
c) Interpret them and make it our default
-0.
-0
[1] : http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0 [2] : http://code.google.com/p/wikimodel/wiki/WikiSyntaxCommon
Thanks, JV. _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Sep 12, 2008, at 5:29 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
Hi XWikiers,
Those last months we've discussed a lot about precise elements of the new XWiki 2.0 syntax : - usage of 2 chars for **bold** and [[links]] - {{macro/}} syntax - Linebreaks on carriage returns - Linking to attachments/Insert link to image - |table| syntax - styling syntax - emoticons
So far the idea was to keep the xwiki/2.0 syntax as close as possible from xwiki/1.0. IMHO we've reached a point where xwiki/2.0 is so different from xwiki/1.0 that it could be the occasion to go further and replace our few radeox leftovers by their widespread equivalent. That's the first thing I'd like to discuss, do we all agree to make other substantial modifications to xwiki/2.0 ?
Here's my +1.
+0 Till now we had not really changed the syntax. We've only doubled special chars so that the parser can recognize them (and thus so that users don't mistakenly do a bold for ex) and added new syntaxes. This below means making completely different changes so we won't be able to say that the XWiki 2.0 syntax is an evolution of the 1.0 syntax. It'll be a completely new syntax. This is ok but we need to acknowledge that.
Being completely in line with Creole [1] or WikiSyntaxCommon [2] is not an option since we've already made some incompatible choices (like linebreaks on carriage returns) and it would imply a big amount of work now that the new rendering is approaching a stable state. That's the reason why this proposal is about 2 basic (and important) wiki syntax elements, those 2 modifications would make xwiki syntax familiar to wikiPowerUsers.
1) Usage of // instead of ~~ for italic
Creole rationale : A slash (/) looks like slanted italics, so it is intuitive and thus easier to remember. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/BoldAndItalicsReasoning Note : on all the keyboard mappings I know slashes are more easily reachable than ~.
Here's my +1.
+0 for the same reason as above. We're changing a familiar syntax for users for something new.
2) Usage of equal signs instead of 1./1.1/etc for Headings
+0 for the same reason as above. We're changing a familiar syntax for users for something new.
Creole rationale : Using equal signs (=) is the most popular wiki header markup. Since there are more equal signs for smaller headers, subheaders will become more indented making it easier to get a visual overview from the markup alone. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/HeadingsReasoning
Note : We've experienced problems in the past with the 1/1.1 syntax (bad document section computation, problems with table cells starting with 1, etc) but those problems are addressed in the new rendering. Anyway I think users are more likely to unintentionaly start a line with a 1 than a = (like in "1 is more than 2" in the middle of a paragraph). What I personnaly like with this syntax is that it makes sections very visible when editing a page in wiki mode.
About unclosed titles :
=== Also level 3 === Also level 3 = === Also level 3 ==
a) Don't interpret them
+0.
If by "don't interpret" you mean consider them as paragraph instead of headers then +1 for that. I prefer that we force closing them and have a single way of defining them.
b) Interpret them but make closed title our default (generated by wysiwyg)
+1, as I wrote above I think that having clear sections in a page helps to navigate in edit mode.
-0
c) Interpret them and make it our default
-0.
I'm +0 for only equal sign on the left but -0 for options: it's either both left and right or only left for me. Note 1: It's a pity this comes so late. But better late than never ;) Note 2: This will take from 1 to 2 days for me to change if we decide to go ahead with it so it may not be in 1.6M2. BTW if someone has any concern on other syntax elements please raise them now. It's the last chance. After that it'll have to go in XWiki Syntax 2.1 (which btw is easy to do now that we support multiple syntaxes). Thanks JV for raising this -Vincent
[1] : http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0 [2] : http://code.google.com/p/wikimodel/wiki/WikiSyntaxCommon
Thanks, JV.
Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
... So far the idea was to keep the xwiki/2.0 syntax as close as possible from xwiki/1.0. IMHO we've reached a point where xwiki/2.0 is so different from xwiki/1.0 that it could be the occasion to go further and replace our few radeox leftovers by their widespread equivalent. That's the first thing I'd like to discuss, do we all agree to make other substantial modifications to xwiki/2.0 ?
Here's my +1.
+1
... 1) Usage of // instead of ~~ for italic
Creole rationale : A slash (/) looks like slanted italics, so it is intuitive and thus easier to remember. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/BoldAndItalicsReasoning Note : on all the keyboard mappings I know slashes are more easily reachable than ~.
Here's my +1.
+1
2) Usage of equal signs instead of 1./1.1/etc for Headings
Creole rationale : Using equal signs (=) is the most popular wiki header markup. Since there are more equal signs for smaller headers, subheaders will become more indented making it easier to get a visual overview from the markup alone. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/HeadingsReasoning
+1
... About unclosed titles :
=== Also level 3 === Also level 3 = === Also level 3 ==
a) Don't interpret them
-0. This makes our syntax incompatible with Creole and WikiSyntaxCommon in this topic.
b) Interpret them but make closed title our default (generated by wysiwyg)
+1
c) Interpret them and make it our default
-0 -- Artem Melentyev
Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
Hi XWikiers,
Those last months we've discussed a lot about precise elements of the new XWiki 2.0 syntax : - usage of 2 chars for **bold** and [[links]] - {{macro/}} syntax - Linebreaks on carriage returns - Linking to attachments/Insert link to image - |table| syntax - styling syntax - emoticons
So far the idea was to keep the xwiki/2.0 syntax as close as possible from xwiki/1.0. IMHO we've reached a point where xwiki/2.0 is so different from xwiki/1.0 that it could be the occasion to go further and replace our few radeox leftovers by their widespread equivalent. That's the first thing I'd like to discuss, do we all agree to make other substantial modifications to xwiki/2.0 ?
Here's my +1.
+0
Being completely in line with Creole [1] or WikiSyntaxCommon [2] is not an option since we've already made some incompatible choices (like linebreaks on carriage returns) and it would imply a big amount of work now that the new rendering is approaching a stable state. That's the reason why this proposal is about 2 basic (and important) wiki syntax elements, those 2 modifications would make xwiki syntax familiar to wikiPowerUsers.
1) Usage of // instead of ~~ for italic
Creole rationale : A slash (/) looks like slanted italics, so it is intuitive and thus easier to remember. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/BoldAndItalicsReasoning Note : on all the keyboard mappings I know slashes are more easily reachable than ~.
Here's my +1.
+0
2) Usage of equal signs instead of 1./1.1/etc for Headings
Creole rationale : Using equal signs (=) is the most popular wiki header markup. Since there are more equal signs for smaller headers, subheaders will become more indented making it easier to get a visual overview from the markup alone. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/HeadingsReasoning
+0
Note : We've experienced problems in the past with the 1/1.1 syntax (bad document section computation, problems with table cells starting with 1, etc) but those problems are addressed in the new rendering. Anyway I think users are more likely to unintentionaly start a line with a 1 than a = (like in "1 is more than 2" in the middle of a paragraph). What I personnaly like with this syntax is that it makes sections very visible when editing a page in wiki mode.
About unclosed titles :
=== Also level 3 === Also level 3 = === Also level 3 ==
a) Don't interpret them
+0.
b) Interpret them but make closed title our default (generated by wysiwyg)
+1, as I wrote above I think that having clear sections in a page helps to navigate in edit mode.
c) Interpret them and make it our default
-0.
I'm definitely for having a single way of closing headers, be it with a single '=' or with an equal number of them. What doesn't match this shouldn't be interpreted (extra or missing '=').
[1] : http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0 [2] : http://code.google.com/p/wikimodel/wiki/WikiSyntaxCommon
Thanks, JV. _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
Hi XWikiers,
Those last months we've discussed a lot about precise elements of the new XWiki 2.0 syntax : - usage of 2 chars for **bold** and [[links]] - {{macro/}} syntax - Linebreaks on carriage returns - Linking to attachments/Insert link to image - |table| syntax - styling syntax - emoticons
So far the idea was to keep the xwiki/2.0 syntax as close as possible from xwiki/1.0. IMHO we've reached a point where xwiki/2.0 is so different from xwiki/1.0 that it could be the occasion to go further and replace our few radeox leftovers by their widespread equivalent. That's the first thing I'd like to discuss, do we all agree to make other substantial modifications to xwiki/2.0 ?
Here's my +1.
Being completely in line with Creole [1] or WikiSyntaxCommon [2] is not an option since we've already made some incompatible choices (like linebreaks on carriage returns) and it would imply a big amount of work now that the new rendering is approaching a stable state. That's the reason why this proposal is about 2 basic (and important) wiki syntax elements, those 2 modifications would make xwiki syntax familiar to wikiPowerUsers.
1) Usage of // instead of ~~ for italic
Creole rationale : A slash (/) looks like slanted italics, so it is intuitive and thus easier to remember. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/BoldAndItalicsReasoning Note : on all the keyboard mappings I know slashes are more easily reachable than ~.
Here's my +1.
2) Usage of equal signs instead of 1./1.1/etc for Headings
Creole rationale : Using equal signs (=) is the most popular wiki header markup. Since there are more equal signs for smaller headers, subheaders will become more indented making it easier to get a visual overview from the markup alone. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/HeadingsReasoning
Note : We've experienced problems in the past with the 1/1.1 syntax (bad document section computation, problems with table cells starting with 1, etc) but those problems are addressed in the new rendering. Anyway I think users are more likely to unintentionaly start a line with a 1 than a = (like in "1 is more than 2" in the middle of a paragraph). What I personnaly like with this syntax is that it makes sections very visible when editing a page in wiki mode.
About unclosed titles :
=== Also level 3 === Also level 3 = === Also level 3 ==
a) Don't interpret them
-0
b) Interpret them but make closed title our default (generated by wysiwyg)
+1, to be consistent with Creole, and because there are lazy editors.
c) Interpret them and make it our default
+0 -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
participants (6)
-
Artem Melentyev -
Jean-Vincent Drean -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol