[xwiki-devs] [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11
Hello all, Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. Here’s my +1. Andreea
Hi Andrea/all, On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hello all,
Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems. Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable. So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach. Thanks -Vincent
Hi Vincent and all, On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:08 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hello all,
Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
We see here that Marius have done the most for our UI, and he know how costly it is to support different browser. I have my own experience in that field with another product, so I really understand your point Marius.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
I fully agree.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
However, this is not so black and white this should be part of the discussion. While we may increase our luck of supporting many browser by simply using an appropriate javascript and CSS framework (Prototype and now JQuery, Bootstrap), testing and ensuring that a lot of browser version is fully compatible could be a tremendous task that I sure we probably do not fully achieve now. IMO, we should ensure the most essential features of XWiki degrade nicely in any browser by having a not too convoluted UI for them. Aside of it, we should be able to benefit of the latest HTML5 improvement to provide really appealing interface, and supporting only the latest browser is best for allowing that. To achieve that goal, IMO we should declare that we only support the latest browser, and that essential feature are supported on any browser in degraded form. We should carefully test latest browser, and only test essential features on a chosen subset of old browser (the most popular, like IE8). If you ask, what are the essential feature, I would reply by a very clear example, to edit a document, having a fully WYSIWYG editor is not essential. If you want it really and you decide that it is worth the effort, you may upgrade your browser. Of course, we already have the actual WYSIWYG editor almost working properly, we should not completely break it now. But we may clearly state and accept that it have some limits, and put effort on new features instead of trying to fix old features in IE8 for example, event if this limit the IE8 compatibility of the editor (if it is still basically usable of course). Overtime, we may accept more issue with IE8 and a such non essential feature, when the market share continue to drop. If have the now the ability to sustain a better effort in browser support, the browser I would like to see better supported are the mobile ones. We have not put enough effort on the mobility aspect, and we should not consider Safari, Chrome or Firefox as single browsers, their mobile counter part also require some attention.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
+1 as well
- Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
+1 to only support essentiel feature on any browser, testing the one or two that have the highest marketshare for confirmation. Thanks,
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Vincent and all,
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:08 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hello all,
Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
We see here that Marius have done the most for our UI, and he know how costly it is to support different browser. I have my own experience in that field with another product, so I really understand your point Marius.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
I fully agree.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
However, this is not so black and white this should be part of the discussion. While we may increase our luck of supporting many browser by simply using an appropriate javascript and CSS framework (Prototype and now JQuery, Bootstrap), testing and ensuring that a lot of browser version is fully compatible could be a tremendous task that I sure we probably do not fully achieve now.
IMO, we should ensure the most essential features of XWiki degrade nicely in any browser by having a not too convoluted UI for them. Aside of it, we should be able to benefit of the latest HTML5 improvement to provide really appealing interface, and supporting only the latest browser is best for allowing that. To achieve that goal, IMO we should declare that we only support the latest browser, and that essential feature are supported on any browser in degraded form. We should carefully test latest browser, and only test essential features on a chosen subset of old browser (the most popular, like IE8).
If you ask, what are the essential feature, I would reply by a very clear example, to edit a document, having a fully WYSIWYG editor is not essential. If you want it really and you decide that it is worth the effort, you may upgrade your browser. Of course, we already have the actual WYSIWYG editor almost working properly, we should not completely break it now. But we may clearly state and accept that it have some limits, and put effort on new features instead of trying to fix old features in IE8 for example, event if this limit the IE8 compatibility of the editor (if it is still basically usable of course). Overtime, we may accept more issue with IE8 and a such non essential feature, when the market share continue to drop.
If have the now the ability to sustain a better effort in browser support, the browser I would like to see better supported are the mobile ones. We have not put enough effort on the mobility aspect, and we should not consider Safari, Chrome or Firefox as single browsers, their mobile counter part also require some attention.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
+1 as well
+1
- Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
+1 to only support essentiel feature on any browser, testing the one or two that have the highest marketshare for confirmation.
+1 for Denis' suggestion to support only basic features in older IE versions. Note that in practice this is what we're doing since we don't hurry to fix issues with IE8 that are not critical, i.e. that don't affect important features. Thanks, Marius
Thanks,
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet! I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share. Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 Thanks -Vincent On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hello all,
Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
Thanks -Vincent
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only. See http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-.... IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hello all,
Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-....
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hello all,
Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!) 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... .
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]>
wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hello all,
Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
IMO we should modify http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does not ?). On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <[email protected]> wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... .
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]>
wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hello all,
Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
IMO we should modify http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does not ?).
I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions. And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. Thanks -Vincent
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... .
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected]
wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> Hello all, > > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: > > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. > > Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
IMO we should modify http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does not ?).
I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course since that's what we are talking about here.
And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
Thanks -Vincent
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... .
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected]
wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> Hi Andrea/all, > > On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose > > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > > FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > > > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: > > > > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by > > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. > > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) > > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. > > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% > > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. > > > > Here’s my +1. > > On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. > > While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems. > > Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable. > > So there are 2 questions in here: > - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach. > > Thanks > -Vincent > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
IMO we should modify http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does not ?).
I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course since that's what we are talking about here.
And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
Thanks -Vincent
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... .
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected]
wrote:
> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet! > > I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share. > > Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: > - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > > However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: > - IE8/9/10/11 > - FF latest > - Chrome latest > - Safari latest > > It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? > > So far we have the following votes: > - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> Hi Andrea/all, >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >> > Hello all, >> > >> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose >> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >> >> FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >> >> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >> > >> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by >> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. >> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) >> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. >> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% >> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >> > >> > Here’s my +1. >> >> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. >> >> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems. >> >> Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable. >> >> So there are 2 questions in here: >> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach. >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
s/upgrade/apply/
available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
IMO we should modify http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does not ?).
I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course since that's what we are talking about here.
And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
Thanks -Vincent
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote: > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
> > See http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... . > > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet! >> >> I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share. >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: >> - IE8/9/10/11 >> - FF latest >> - Chrome latest >> - Safari latest >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? >> >> So far we have the following votes: >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >>> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >>> >>> > Hello all, >>> > >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >>> >>> FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >>> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >>> > >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >>> > >>> > Here’s my +1. >>> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. >>> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems. >>> >>> Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable. >>> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach. >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
s/upgrade/apply/
available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
IMO we should modify http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does not ?).
I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course since that's what we are talking about here.
And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
Thanks -Vincent
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne > wrote: > > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 > only. > > Remove the "not" of course. > > > > > See > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... > . > > > > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] > wrote: > >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers > haven’t voted yet! > >> > >> I’ve updated > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with > recent market share. > >> > >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show > similar data: > >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > >> > >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users > we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: > >> - IE8/9/10/11 > >> - FF latest > >> - Chrome latest > >> - Safari latest > >> > >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less > high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? > >> > >> So far we have the following votes: > >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > >> > >> Thanks > >> -Vincent > >> > >> > >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Andrea/all, > >>> > >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >>> > >>> > Hello all, > >>> > > >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to > propose > >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > >>> > >>> FTR the thread in question is at > http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > >>> > >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: > >>> > > >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used > by > >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and > IE11. > >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by > Version) > >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% > users. > >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - > 20.85% > >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. > >>> > > >>> > Here’s my +1. > >>> > >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the > latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except > for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the > community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of > XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. > >>> > >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we > support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I > feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without > problems. > >>> > >>> Looking at the graph at > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if > we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% > of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely > IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not > supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems > supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s > an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with > IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it > with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or > it’s manageable. > >>> > >>> So there are 2 questions in here: > >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or > instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the > marketshare approach. > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> -Vincent > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> devs mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > -- > > Thomas Mortagne > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri Thanks, Caty On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
s/upgrade/apply/
available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected]
(mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
IMO we should modify http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does not ?).
I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course since that's what we are talking about here.
And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even
if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
Thanks -Vincent
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau wrote: > +1 for IE9/10/11 > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
support it!)
> > > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne >> wrote: >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 >> only. >> >> Remove the "not" of course. >> >> > >> > See >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... >> . >> > >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. >> > >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] >> wrote: >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers >> haven’t voted yet! >> >> >> >> I’ve updated >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with >> recent market share. >> >> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show >> similar data: >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >> >> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 >> >> - FF latest >> >> - Chrome latest >> >> - Safari latest >> >> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? >> >> >> >> So far we have the following votes: >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> -Vincent >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ( [email protected] >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >> >>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( [email protected] >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >>> >> >>> > Hello all, >> >>> > >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to >> propose >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >> >>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >> >>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >> >>> > >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used >> by >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and >> IE11. >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by >> Version) >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% >> users. >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - >> 20.85% >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >> >>> > >> >>> > Here’s my +1. >> >>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. >> >>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without >> problems. >> >>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or >> it’s manageable. >> >>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the >> marketshare approach. >> >>> >> >>> Thanks >> >>> -Vincent >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> devs mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Thomas Mortagne >> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Mortagne >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend". Thanks, Eduard On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]
wrote:
My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri
Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]
wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
s/upgrade/apply/
available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
[email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> IMO we should modify >
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple > and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does > not ?).
I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course since that's what we are talking about here.
And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE
even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
Thanks -Vincent
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau > wrote: > > +1 for IE9/10/11 > > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
support it!)
> > > > > > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : > > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne > >> wrote: > >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 > >> only. > >> > >> Remove the "not" of course. > >> > >> > > >> > See > >>
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-...
> >> . > >> > > >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > >> > > >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] > >> wrote: > >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers > >> haven’t voted yet! > >> >> > >> >> I’ve updated > >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with > >> recent market share. > >> >> > >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show > >> similar data: > >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > >> >> > >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users > >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: > >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 > >> >> - FF latest > >> >> - Chrome latest > >> >> - Safari latest > >> >> > >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less > >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? > >> >> > >> >> So far we have the following votes: > >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > >> >> > >> >> Thanks > >> >> -Vincent > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ( [email protected] > >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, > >> >>> > >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( [email protected] > >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> > Hello all, > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to > >> propose > >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > >> >>> > >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at > >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > >> >>> > >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used > >> by > >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and > >> IE11. > >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by > >> Version) > >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% > >> users. > >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - > >> 20.85% > >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Here’s my +1. > >> >>> > >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the > >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except > >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the > >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of > >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. > >> >>> > >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we > >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I > >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without > >> problems. > >> >>> > >> >>> Looking at the graph at > >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if > >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% > >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely > >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not > >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems > >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s > >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with > >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it > >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or > >> it’s manageable. > >> >>> > >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: > >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or > >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the > >> marketshare approach. > >> >>> > >> >>> Thanks > >> >>> -Vincent > >> >>> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> devs mailing list > >> >> [email protected] > >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Thomas Mortagne > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thomas Mortagne > >> _______________________________________________ > >> devs mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
-1 because: A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below) D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP More elaborate answer for point B): You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains... FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history): - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004 - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006 - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010 - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003. So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle). Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Eduard
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri
Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
s/upgrade/apply/
available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( [email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> IMO we should modify >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy >> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple >> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does >> not ?). > > I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course since that's what we are talking about here.
> > And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau >> wrote: >> > +1 for IE9/10/11 >> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!) >> > >> > >> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : >> > >> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne >> >> wrote: >> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 >> >> only. >> >> >> >> Remove the "not" of course. >> >> >> >> > >> >> > See >> >>
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-...
>> >> . >> >> > >> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] >> >> wrote: >> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers >> >> haven’t voted yet! >> >> >> >> >> >> I’ve updated >> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with >> >> recent market share. >> >> >> >> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show >> >> similar data: >> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >> >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web >> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >> >> >> >> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users >> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: >> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 >> >> >> - FF latest >> >> >> - Chrome latest >> >> >> - Safari latest >> >> >> >> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less >> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? >> >> >> >> >> >> So far we have the following votes: >> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> -Vincent >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ( [email protected] >> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( [email protected] >> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Hello all, >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to >> >> propose >> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at >> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used >> >> by >> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and >> >> IE11. >> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by >> >> Version) >> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% >> >> users. >> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - >> >> 20.85% >> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the >> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except >> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the >> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of >> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we >> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I >> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without >> >> problems. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Looking at the graph at >> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if >> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% >> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely >> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not >> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems >> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s >> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with >> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it >> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or >> >> it’s manageable. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or >> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the >> >> marketshare approach. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Thanks >> >> >>> -Vincent >> >> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> devs mailing list >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Thomas Mortagne >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Thomas Mortagne >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> devs mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > devs mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Mortagne >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
-1 because:
A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
More elaborate answer for point B):
You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history): - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004 - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006 - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010 - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Eduard
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri
Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
s/upgrade/apply/
available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote: > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( [email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >>> IMO we should modify >>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy >>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple >>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does >>> not ?). >> >> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions. > > I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" > on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course > since that's what we are talking about here. > >> >> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau >>> wrote: >>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 >>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!) >>> > >>> > >>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : >>> > >>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 >>> >> only. >>> >> >>> >> Remove the "not" of course. >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > See >>> >>
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-...
>>> >> . >>> >> > >>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. >>> >> > >>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers >>> >> haven’t voted yet! >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I’ve updated >>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with >>> >> recent market share. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show >>> >> similar data: >>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >>> >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web >>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >>> >> >> >>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users >>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: >>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 >>> >> >> - FF latest >>> >> >> - Chrome latest >>> >> >> - Safari latest >>> >> >> >>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less >>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: >>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Thanks >>> >> >> -Vincent >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ( [email protected] >>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( [email protected] >>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> > Hello all, >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to >>> >> propose >>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at >>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used >>> >> by >>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and >>> >> IE11. >>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by >>> >> Version) >>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% >>> >> users. >>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - >>> >> 20.85% >>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the >>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except >>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the >>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of >>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we >>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I >>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without >>> >> problems. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at >>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if >>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% >>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely >>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not >>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems >>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s >>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with >>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it >>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or >>> >> it’s manageable. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or >>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the >>> >> marketshare approach. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Thanks >>> >> >>> -Vincent >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> devs mailing list >>> >> >> [email protected] >>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Thomas Mortagne >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Thomas Mortagne >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> devs mailing list >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > devs mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thomas Mortagne >>> _______________________________________________ >>> devs mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
-1 because:
A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
I was replying to Edy’s comment: "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”." I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things: - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support - only supporting the latest IE version
So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11. I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the creator are 2 different things and do not coincide. Thanks -Vincent
D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
More elaborate answer for point B):
You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history): - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004 - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006 - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010 - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Eduard
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri
Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote: > Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS > plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
s/upgrade/apply/
> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne > wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] < [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( [email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >>> >>>> IMO we should modify >>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy >>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple >>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does >>>> not ?). >>> >>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions. >> >> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" >> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course >> since that's what we are talking about here. >> >>> >>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau >>>> wrote: >>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 >>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!) >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : >>>> > >>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 >>>> >> only. >>>> >> >>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. >>>> >> >>>> >> > >>>> >> > See >>>> >>
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-...
>>>> >> . >>>> >> > >>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers >>>> >> haven’t voted yet! >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> I’ve updated >>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with >>>> >> recent market share. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show >>>> >> similar data: >>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >>>> >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web >>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users >>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: >>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 >>>> >> >> - FF latest >>>> >> >> - Chrome latest >>>> >> >> - Safari latest >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less >>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: >>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Thanks >>>> >> >> -Vincent >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ( [email protected] >>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( [email protected] >>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> > Hello all, >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to >>>> >> propose >>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at >>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used >>>> >> by >>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and >>>> >> IE11. >>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by >>>> >> Version) >>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% >>>> >> users. >>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - >>>> >> 20.85% >>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the >>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except >>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the >>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of >>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we >>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I >>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without >>>> >> problems. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at >>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if >>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% >>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely >>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not >>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems >>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s >>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with >>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it >>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or >>>> >> it’s manageable. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or >>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the >>>> >> marketshare approach. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Thanks >>>> >> >>> -Vincent >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >> devs mailing list >>>> >> >> [email protected] >>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > -- >>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> Thomas Mortagne >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> devs mailing list >>>> >> [email protected] >>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > devs mailing list >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thomas Mortagne >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> devs mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>> _______________________________________________ >>> devs mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Mortagne > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
-1 because:
A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
I was replying to Edy’s comment: "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things: - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support - only supporting the latest IE version
So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.
I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the creator are 2 different things and do not coincide.
Thanks -Vincent
D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
More elaborate answer for point B):
You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history): - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004 - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006 - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010 - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Eduard
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri
Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote:
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote: > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > wrote: >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer > > s/upgrade/apply/ > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne >> wrote: >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] < [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( [email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >>>> >>>>> IMO we should modify >>>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does >>>>> not ?). >>>> >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions. >>> >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course >>> since that's what we are talking about here. >>> >>>> >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!) >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : >>>>> > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne >>>>> >> wrote: >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 >>>>> >> only. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > See >>>>> >>
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-...
>>>>> >> . >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] >>>>> >> wrote: >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet! >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated >>>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with >>>>> >> recent market share. >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show >>>>> >> similar data: >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >>>>> >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 >>>>> >> >> - FF latest >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> Thanks >>>>> >> >> -Vincent >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ( [email protected] >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( [email protected] >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all, >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to >>>>> >> propose >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and >>>>> >> IE11. >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by >>>>> >> Version) >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% >>>>> >> users. >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - >>>>> >> 20.85% >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without >>>>> >> problems. >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at >>>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or >>>>> >> it’s manageable. >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the >>>>> >> marketshare approach. >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> Thanks >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list >>>>> >> >> [email protected] >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > -- >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -- >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> devs mailing list >>>>> >> [email protected] >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>>> >> >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > devs mailing list >>>>> > [email protected] >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Thomas Mortagne >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> devs mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> devs mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thomas Mortagne >> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Mortagne > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
-1 because:
A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
I was replying to Edy’s comment: "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things: - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support - only supporting the latest IE version
So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.
And again that's the rule MS plan to apply, they just delayed the application of this rule. See the blog post I mentioned.
I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the creator are 2 different things and do not coincide.
Thanks -Vincent
D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
More elaborate answer for point B):
You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history): - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004 - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006 - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010 - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Eduard
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri
Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > wrote: > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer > > > > s/upgrade/apply/ > > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9. > > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne > >> wrote: > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] < [email protected]> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( [email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> IMO we should modify > >>>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does > >>>>> not ?). > >>>> > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for > older versions. > >>> > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course > >>> since that's what we are talking about here. > >>> > >>>> > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> -Vincent > >>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not > support it!) > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : > >>>>> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not > IE9/10/11 > >>>>> >> only. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > See > >>>>> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... > >>>>> >> . > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] > >>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of > committers > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet! > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated > >>>>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with > >>>>> >> recent market share. > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem > to show > >>>>> >> similar data: > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > >>>>> >> >> - > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% > of users > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this > includes: > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 > is less > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded > to IE11)? > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> Thanks > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ( > [email protected] > >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( > [email protected] > >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all, > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d > like to > >>>>> >> propose > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions > are: > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still > widely used > >>>>> >> by > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to > IE10 and > >>>>> >> IE11. > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop > Share by > >>>>> >> Version) > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 > by 16.61% > >>>>> >> users. > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions > (IE8 - > >>>>> >> 20.85% > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still > significant. > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support > only the > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re > doing except > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all > browsers and the > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services > on top of > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their > customers. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like > that we > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, > because I > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use > it without > >>>>> >> problems. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at > >>>>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would > cover 70% > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that > strangely > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the > others… Not > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have > problems > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, > if that’s > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and > with > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we > try it > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden > for us or > >>>>> >> it’s manageable. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each > browser or > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for > the > >>>>> >> marketshare approach. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list > >>>>> >> >> [email protected] > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > -- > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> -- > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> devs mailing list > >>>>> >> [email protected] > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> >> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > devs mailing list > >>>>> > [email protected] > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> devs mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> devs mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Thomas Mortagne > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thomas Mortagne > > > > > > > > -- > > Thomas Mortagne > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
On 9 Sep 2014 at 16:16:42, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
-1 because:
A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
I was replying to Edy’s comment: "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things: - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support - only supporting the latest IE version
So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.
And again that's the rule MS plan to apply, they just delayed the application of this rule. See the blog post I mentioned.
[snip] If you mean, we should do the same as we do for FF and Chrome, then sure, once we can confirm that the big majority of Windows users are using the latest IE, then we can decide this too. I have some doubts though since large companies have always been very conservative in upgrading their browser versions because they develop apps for a given version and upgrading usually costs a lot. It could work I guess but it may take some time for mentalities to evolve and it depends on how good MS is in not breaking backward compatibility… ;) Thanks -Vincent
I'm also +1 to support only versions that MS officially supports. By the way, if we drop support for old IE versions, it will mainly be a problem for new adopters of XWiki? We can guess that those who are not updating their browser will not update their XWiki instance too. On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 04:29:39PM +0200, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 16:16:42, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no > logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
-1 because:
A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
I was replying to Edy’s comment: "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things: - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support - only supporting the latest IE version
So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.
And again that's the rule MS plan to apply, they just delayed the application of this rule. See the blog post I mentioned.
[snip]
If you mean, we should do the same as we do for FF and Chrome, then sure, once we can confirm that the big majority of Windows users are using the latest IE, then we can decide this too. I have some doubts though since large companies have always been very conservative in upgrading their browser versions because they develop apps for a given version and upgrading usually costs a lot. It could work I guess but it may take some time for mentalities to evolve and it depends on how good MS is in not breaking backward compatibility… ;)
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Jean Simard [email protected] Research engineer at XWiki SAS http://www.xwiki.com Committer on the XWiki.org project http://www.xwiki.org
As a kind of joke, IE6 was supported during a very long time by many people, not only because it was used by many people, but also ... because it was not supported by Microsoft ! This makes sense (in a way) : if Microsoft doesn't fix any issue in the most used browser, then you're left with implementing ugly workarounds everywhere to support it yourself ... Unless you don't care at all about providing a software that "works" for most users, but this is a bit weird approach. 2014-09-09 16:58 GMT+02:00 Jean SIMARD <[email protected]>:
I'm also +1 to support only versions that MS officially supports.
By the way, if we drop support for old IE versions, it will mainly be a problem for new adopters of XWiki? We can guess that those who are not updating their browser will not update their XWiki instance too.
On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 04:29:39PM +0200, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 16:16:42, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected]
(mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne (
[email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([email protected]
(mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”. > > -1 because: > > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
I was replying to Edy’s comment: "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things: - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support - only supporting the latest IE version
So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.
And again that's the rule MS plan to apply, they just delayed the application of this rule. See the blog post I mentioned.
[snip]
If you mean, we should do the same as we do for FF and Chrome, then sure, once we can confirm that the big majority of Windows users are using the latest IE, then we can decide this too. I have some doubts though since large companies have always been very conservative in upgrading their browser versions because they develop apps for a given version and upgrading usually costs a lot. It could work I guess but it may take some time for mentalities to evolve and it depends on how good MS is in not breaking backward compatibility… ;)
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Jean Simard [email protected] Research engineer at XWiki SAS http://www.xwiki.com Committer on the XWiki.org project http://www.xwiki.org _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 9 Sep 2014 at 16:13:37, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
-1 because:
A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
I was replying to Edy’s comment: "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things: - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support - only supporting the latest IE version
So based on what's on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.
Well you need to elaborate because your sentence doesn’t mean that… Actually your sentence doesn’t mean anything TBH. And I did read it carefully and several times ;) So now I understand that you mean: “We should only support the versions of IE that are the latest versions available on *all* supported Microsoft operating systems”. Correct? We would need to define precisely what means MS operating system (what service pack for ex, Windows Embedded?). In any case that doesn’t change my reasoning. Let’s see what others think but since it’s a big decision I feel it’s always better to send VOTEs whenever we wish to drop support for a given IE version (the mail I intend to send for IE8). Thanks -Vincent
I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the creator are 2 different things and do not coincide.
Thanks -Vincent
D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
More elaborate answer for point B):
You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history): - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004 - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006 - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010 - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Eduard
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri
Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > wrote: > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer > > > > s/upgrade/apply/ > > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9. > > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne > >> wrote: > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [email protected] < [email protected]> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( [email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> IMO we should modify > >>>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does > >>>>> not ?). > >>>> > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for > older versions. > >>> > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course > >>> since that's what we are talking about here. > >>> > >>>> > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> -Vincent > >>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not > support it!) > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : > >>>>> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not > IE9/10/11 > >>>>> >> only. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > See > >>>>> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... > >>>>> >> . > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected] > >>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of > committers > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet! > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated > >>>>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with > >>>>> >> recent market share. > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem > to show > >>>>> >> similar data: > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > >>>>> >> >> - > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% > of users > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this > includes: > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 > is less > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded > to IE11)? > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> Thanks > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ( > [email protected] > >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( > [email protected] > >>>>> >> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all, > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d > like to > >>>>> >> propose > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions > are: > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still > widely used > >>>>> >> by > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to > IE10 and > >>>>> >> IE11. > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop > Share by > >>>>> >> Version) > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 > by 16.61% > >>>>> >> users. > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions > (IE8 - > >>>>> >> 20.85% > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still > significant. > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support > only the > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re > doing except > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all > browsers and the > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services > on top of > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their > customers. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like > that we > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, > because I > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use > it without > >>>>> >> problems. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at > >>>>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would > cover 70% > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that > strangely > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the > others… Not > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have > problems > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, > if that’s > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and > with > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we > try it > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden > for us or > >>>>> >> it’s manageable. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each > browser or > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for > the > >>>>> >> marketshare approach. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list > >>>>> >> >> [email protected] > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > -- > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> -- > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> devs mailing list > >>>>> >> [email protected] > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> >> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > devs mailing list > >>>>> > [email protected] > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> devs mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> devs mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Thomas Mortagne > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thomas Mortagne > > > > > > > > -- > > Thomas Mortagne > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop. Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11). So the new vote is: * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today). Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it separately). Here’s my +1 Thanks -Vincent On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:34:48, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... .
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected]
wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hello all,
Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hello, +1 as well. Thanks, Silvia On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 5:43 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
So the new vote is: * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it separately).
Here’s my +1
Thanks -Vincent
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:34:48, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... .
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected]
wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> Hello all, > > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: > > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. > > Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
+1 of course. 2014-09-04 16:45 GMT+02:00 Silvia Rusu <[email protected]>:
Hello,
+1 as well.
Thanks, Silvia
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 5:43 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
So the new vote is: * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it separately).
Here’s my +1
Thanks -Vincent
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:34:48, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ( [email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-...
.
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected]
wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> Hi Andrea/all, > > On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( [email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose > > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > > FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > > > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: > > > > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by > > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. > > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) > > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. > > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% > > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. > > > > Here’s my +1. > > On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. > > While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems. > > Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable. > > So there are 2 questions in here: > - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach. > > Thanks > -Vincent > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
+1 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:43 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
So the new vote is: * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it separately).
Here’s my +1
Thanks -Vincent
On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:34:48, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1 for IE9/10/11 +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.
Remove the "not" of course.
See
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-... .
IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [email protected]
wrote:
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: - IE8/9/10/11 - FF latest - Chrome latest - Safari latest
It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
So far we have the following votes: - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
Thanks -Vincent
On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Andrea/all,
On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> Hello all, > > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: > > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. > > Here’s my +1.
On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
So there are 2 questions in here: - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [email protected] wrote:
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
So the new vote is: * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it separately).
Here’s my +1
+1. -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu
+1 On Sep 4, 2014 6:32 PM, "Sergiu Dumitriu" <[email protected]> wrote:
On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [email protected] wrote:
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to
agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means
that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
So the new vote is: * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the
latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it
separately).
Here’s my +1
+1.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
+1 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
+1
On Sep 4, 2014 6:32 PM, "Sergiu Dumitriu" <[email protected]> wrote:
On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [email protected] wrote:
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to
agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means
that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
So the new vote is: * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the
latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it
separately).
Here’s my +1
+1.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Andreea Zenovia Popescu QA Engineer @XWiki [email protected]
+1 <http://www.xwiki.com/> *Manuel Smeria* *Quality Assurance & Support Engineer* On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Andreea Popescu <[email protected]> wrote:
+1
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
+1
On Sep 4, 2014 6:32 PM, "Sergiu Dumitriu" <[email protected]> wrote:
On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [email protected] wrote:
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to
agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means
that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
So the new vote is: * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the
latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it
separately).
Here’s my +1
+1.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Andreea Zenovia Popescu QA Engineer @XWiki [email protected] _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
VOTE result: - Binding votes: 5 +1, no 0, no -1 - Non Binding: 3 +1, no 0, no -1 The VOTE is this passed and I’ve updated the page at: http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy Thanks -Vincent On 5 Sep 2014 at 08:16:18, Manuel Smeria ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
+1
*Manuel Smeria* *Quality Assurance & Support Engineer*
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Andreea Popescu wrote:
+1
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
+1
On Sep 4, 2014 6:32 PM, "Sergiu Dumitriu" wrote:
On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [email protected] wrote:
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to
agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means
that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
So the new vote is: * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the
latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it
separately).
Here’s my +1
+1.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Andreea Zenovia Popescu QA Engineer @XWiki [email protected] _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
participants (13)
-
Andreea Popescu -
Denis Gervalle -
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Eduard Moraru -
Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau -
Jean SIMARD -
Jeremie BOUSQUET -
Manuel Smeria -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Silvia Rusu -
Thomas Mortagne -
vincent＠massol.net