I'm ok to the "add" button. This was only a very quick axis for reflexion. I agree to ludovic on the point there is a need on something less visible on the page. Imo we can also make it more simple in the toughts. As I can't sleep this morning I have made some more constructed UX about the module. Editable pdf (use illustrator or inkscape) : http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... Png on Flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/thibautdeveraux/sets/72157623219280278/ This is ideas, use it in a "remix" way. ;) Notes taken during the design (hope it is clear) : * **Stage 1 : Get the concept from utility What are the utility uses of annotations ?* I guess that, in a global point of view, the use of anotations is to discuss on details points of a text. For example Mr John have redacted a commercial proposition and the team makes a review of it. Generally people quote the text in the comments. With the annotation module it will be more easy to find the parts of the text wich have been commented. *===> Annotations are comments ?* For readers the utility use of comments is to see people reactions. Both comments and annotations are people reactions. If there is two tabs in the bottom menu, readers will have to swich from one to another to see all the people reactions, getting lose in having two options for one single use. *Get the concept from utility :* *For the reader, an annotations is a comment where a text is quoted* At this stage of the reflexion, we can guess that, the comment tab and the annotation tab at the bottom of the page should be merged. *Stage 2 : get the interactions from usage chains Build the usage chains* ---> *Interactions * (priority : * to *** ) Notice : if statements lead to a too complexe interface, select only the main points that should be keeped *First time reading :* - I read the page --- While reading the page I notice the people annotations *----> User can see where are annotations on page *** ----- *Then I may want to read it* ---> User can read annotations directly on the page *** * ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation box *---> User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** --- While reading I may quote a part of the text and comment it *---> User can add an anotation direclty on page **** * * - I read the comments --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a part of the page *---> User can see annotations in comments* *** ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in context *---> ** **User can see where are annotations on page **** --- While reading the comments I may react to it *---> User can answer to comments (already done)* ** ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make annotation starting from the comment zone*** ** * * - I have read the page and want to make a comment *---> User can make comments (already done)* *** ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make annotation starting from the comment zone* ** * **Comming back to see people reactions :* * * - I may look on the page to see if there is new part of the text quoted *----> User can see where are annotations on page *** /or even/ **User can see wich annotations are new on page ** *----- *Then I may want to read it* ---> User can read annotations directly on the page *** * ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation box *---> User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** * * - More general way : I look for new comments *---> User can see which are the last comments (already done)* *** --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a part of the page *---> User can see annotations in comments* *** ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in context *---> ** **User can see where are annotations on page **** --- While reading the comments I may react to it *---> User can answer to comments (already done)* ** ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make annotation starting from the comment zone* ** *Quick reference :* *User can see where are annotations on page *** **User can see which are the last comments (already done)* **** **User can read annotations in comments* *** *User can read annotations directly on the page **** *User can add an anotation direclty on page **** *User can add a comment (already done)* *** *User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** *User can comment the comments (already done)* **** * User can add annotation starting from the comment zone* ** * User can see wich annotations are new directly on page ** *Stage 3 : draw the interface* Have a look at the schemas. ;-) 2010/1/15 Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]>

I'm not sure if one button is better than showing upfront some information. It might be something we might have as an option in the Wiki. And we need a way to collapse it..

However one thing I'm quite sure of, is that it's enough blue bars.. so we need something less visible in the page..

Select the text + add will be an issue since the "Add" button might not be on screen..

Otherwise it's very nice.. I like the user colors, the annotation setting and the annotation tab..

Note that an annotation creation or display can be much more than just one text..

Ludovic

Le 15/01/10 21:51, Thibaut DEVERAUX a écrit :

Hi Cathy,

...

No time for visuals neither looking to much in it but did you think about a single button "show annotations options" ?

*Button at start :*

Show annotations options>

*Clicking on the button open a menu :*

Show annotations options> A line showing the users names by colors (if colors activated) [V] Hide/show icones on the page -- [V] Hide/show colors [+] Add annotation

*Interact with anotations directly on the page :* Use the icones on page to interact : see, modify, react...

Let me know...

Thibaut

2010/1/15 Ecaterina Valica<[email protected]>

...

Hi,

I made some UI suggestions for the annotations.

Overview:

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/Annotations/pro... Details:

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal

Please let us (me and Anca) know what you think.

Thanks, Caty _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- Ludovic Dubost Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

Hi JV, On 01/18/2010 07:21 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Thibaut DEVERAUX <[email protected]> wrote:

...

I'm ok to the "add" button. This was only a very quick axis for reflexion.

I agree to ludovic on the point there is a need on something less visible on the page. Imo we can also make it more simple in the toughts.

As I can't sleep this morning I have made some more constructed UX about the module. Editable pdf (use illustrator or inkscape) : http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... Png on Flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/thibautdeveraux/sets/72157623219280278/ This is ideas, use it in a "remix" way. ;)

Notes taken during the design (hope it is clear) :

* **Stage 1 : Get the concept from utility

What are the utility uses of annotations ?*

I guess that, in a global point of view, the use of anotations is to discuss on details points of a text.

For example Mr John have redacted a commercial proposition and the team makes a review of it.

Generally people quote the text in the comments. With the annotation module it will be more easy to find the parts of the text wich have been commented.

*===> Annotations are comments ?*

For readers the utility use of comments is to see people reactions. Both comments and annotations are people reactions.

If there is two tabs in the bottom menu, readers will have to swich from one to another to see all the people reactions, getting lose in having two options for one single use.

*Get the concept from utility :* *For the reader, an annotations is a comment where a text is quoted*

At this stage of the reflexion, we can guess that, the comment tab and the annotation tab at the bottom of the page should be merged.

This makes a lot of sense to me, has this option been explored ? Has it been dropped for some reason ?

Indeed it makes a lot of sense but I'm thinking it should be an 'additional' integration using the annotations default implementation. Annotations are designed (and will be implemented) to be structured and flexible, as in contain any kind of structured metadata (most probably defined by an xwiki class) with customizable views and all. This way they could be integrated with comments, if needed, or handled distinctly, if needed. We could indeed push for this kind of integration with XE, if we decide we want it like this, but I think the generic annotations feature should stay a bit more 'disconnected'. Thanks, Anca

...

*Stage 2 : get the interactions from usage chains

Build the usage chains* ---> *Interactions * (priority : * to *** )

Notice : if statements lead to a too complexe interface, select only the main points that should be keeped

*First time reading :*

- I read the page --- While reading the page I notice the people annotations *----> User can see where are annotations on page *** ----- *Then I may want to read it* ---> User can read annotations directly on the page *** * ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation box *---> User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** --- While reading I may quote a part of the text and comment it *---> User can add an anotation direclty on page **** * * - I read the comments --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a part of the page *---> User can see annotations in comments* *** ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in context *---> ** **User can see where are annotations on page **** --- While reading the comments I may react to it *---> User can answer to comments (already done)* ** ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make annotation starting from the comment zone*** ** * * - I have read the page and want to make a comment *---> User can make comments (already done)* *** ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make annotation starting from the comment zone* ** *

**Comming back to see people reactions :* * * - I may look on the page to see if there is new part of the text quoted *----> User can see where are annotations on page *** /or even/ **User can see wich annotations are new on page ** *----- *Then I may want to read it* ---> User can read annotations directly on the page *** * ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation box *---> User can comment the annotation directly on page* **

* * - More general way : I look for new comments *---> User can see which are the last comments (already done)* *** --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a part of the page *---> User can see annotations in comments* *** ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in context *---> ** **User can see where are annotations on page **** --- While reading the comments I may react to it *---> User can answer to comments (already done)* ** ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make annotation starting from the comment zone* **

*Quick reference :*

*User can see where are annotations on page *** **User can see which are the last comments (already done)* ****

**User can read annotations in comments* *** *User can read annotations directly on the page ****

*User can add an anotation direclty on page **** *User can add a comment (already done)* ***

*User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** *User can comment the comments (already done)* **** * User can add annotation starting from the comment zone* ** *

User can see wich annotations are new directly on page **

*Stage 3 : draw the interface*

Have a look at the schemas. ;-)

2010/1/15 Ludovic Dubost<[email protected]>

...

I'm not sure if one button is better than showing upfront some information. It might be something we might have as an option in the Wiki. And we need a way to collapse it..

However one thing I'm quite sure of, is that it's enough blue bars.. so we need something less visible in the page..

Select the text + add will be an issue since the "Add" button might not be on screen..

Otherwise it's very nice.. I like the user colors, the annotation setting and the annotation tab..

Note that an annotation creation or display can be much more than just one text..

Ludovic

Le 15/01/10 21:51, Thibaut DEVERAUX a écrit :

Hi Cathy,

...

No time for visuals neither looking to much in it but did you think about a single button "show annotations options" ?

*Button at start :*

Show annotations options>

*Clicking on the button open a menu :*

Show annotations options> A line showing the users names by colors (if colors activated) [V] Hide/show icones on the page -- [V] Hide/show colors [+] Add annotation

*Interact with anotations directly on the page :* Use the icones on page to interact : see, modify, react...

Let me know...

Thibaut

2010/1/15 Ecaterina Valica<[email protected]>

...

Hi,

I made some UI suggestions for the annotations.

Overview:

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/Annotations/pro... Details:

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal

Please let us (me and Anca) know what you think.

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... Good idea ! A good way to show information in way it does not disturb user. One thing I've always been wondering, what is the meta key ? 2010/1/19 Thibaut DEVERAUX <[email protected]>:

Hi,

I think the two make sens.

An annotation module as simple way to add personal notes on the page.

A "quotes + icones on page" module as a way to annotate and discuss directly on the page.

The only thing wich is making me wondering is the annotation tab as it add another way to get the information while there is already the icones on the page.

1/ Is this tab really usefull or just an additional feature : "best with but not needed"

2/ Isn't there is a risk of overloading the wiki if each feature has so many options ?

I'd like to sugsest two reflexion start points :

A/ Simplicity

It is never a problem to add one tab, but it is a problem when each feature add complexity.

Just imgagine someone want to add 10 features that use such tabs. Then he will have 14 tabs !

That why I'm pro *guetting the features a simple as possible* to avoid information overload when many features are activated.

--- Start point 1 --- Do not use a tab for annotation by default. Just leave them on page.

B/ Intergration

Also that's why I prefer to intergate several functionalities in a single functionality when there is a usage justification.

Here usages sugest that annoatation are on the same scope of use as comments for the readers. They may want to have it all at the same place to get an overveiw of people reactions.

--- Start point 2 --- Put the anotation tab content in the comment tab content. The deal is to make it so that the user understand the way he interact with it.

@Anca

...

We could indeed push for this kind of integration with XE

Not sure to understand ? Please dont make it a standart feature. ;-) I guess for much users is not really need as they have other ways to tell about text details than using quotes+icones or annotation system (simplely copy/past in comments)

@Caty

...

- your display options are not very well positioned because the example is a poem, but in real life, the text will use all the area, and the right aligned position will not look so smooth as it looks now, being pushed up and outside the text.

Sure, I didn't looked so much in positionnement.

...

- your ideas and scenario about the similarities between annotations and comment is interesting and pertinent.  Anca should tell her opinion about this from an implementation point of view.

- if the annotations were comments, then we don't need a separation of terms. The icon should be comment instead of annotation and they should suppose to be localized comments, not something else. And also we didn't need two add actions in the tab.

More preciselly is not an annotation module but a quote module that also makes possible to have icones on text, providing the same service as an annotation module.

I tried a design where there is no box showing comments on pages but a link to the right place in comment zone. However I find it to be less fluid for the user. You can have a look on it, it may grant some ideas : http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp...

...

- I disagree with the explicit display of replies in the annotation details/actions overlay. This representation could get very big and block all the text behind. Also if we would display it like this, then the Tab would be redundant.

Well, I think the replies are needed because it become a conversation. So that the whoole conversation is needed to understand the quote.

I'm not sur having big boxes is a problem. When you open a box you are reading the box, then you close it. Indeed most of boxes will not be big.

...

- I agree with the icon from the tab that takes you to the location in the content.

Think it could be added in the original design too.

...

- The problem with this approach is that we need to annotate not just text, but add tags and other metadata to the content. This is an argument to have another tab for annotations.

Well, I'm not sure to understand it. Is is programmation matters ? If not I think that quoting the text is already a good thing. The quote button is on the page wich, in an information architecture way, sugsest to the user that this is the text that is to be quoted.

...

- when you show linked replies for an annotation, the new comment you add is an annotation for the original annotation? or for the comment? :)

Hay... I don't understand it at all.

What user can do is :  - Quoting the text while reading, using the quote button at the top of the text.  - Opening a conversation related to the text quote directly on the page.  - Quoting the text while writting a comment, using the quote button in the comment field  - Interacting in a classic way in comments

The idea is more making a quote system, able to provide the same service as an annotation system adding the two first ways of interacting to the two last which would be the "classics" of a quoting system.

Thx Thibaut

2010/1/18 Anca Luca <[email protected]>

...

Hi JV,

On 01/18/2010 07:21 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:

...

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Thibaut DEVERAUX <[email protected]>  wrote:

...

I'm ok to the "add" button. This was  only a very quick axis for reflexion.

I agree to ludovic on the point there is a need on something less visible on the page. Imo we can also make it more simple in the toughts.

As I can't sleep this morning I have made some more constructed UX about the module. Editable pdf (use illustrator or inkscape) : http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... Png on Flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/thibautdeveraux/sets/72157623219280278/ This is ideas, use it in a "remix" way. ;)

Notes taken during the design (hope it is clear) :

* **Stage 1 : Get the concept from utility

What are the utility uses of annotations ?*

I guess that, in a global point of view, the use of anotations is to discuss on details points of a text.

For example Mr John have redacted a commercial proposition and the team makes a review of it.

Generally people quote the text in the comments. With the annotation module it will be more easy to find the parts of the text wich have been commented.

*===>  Annotations are comments ?*

For readers the utility use of comments is to see people reactions. Both comments and annotations are people reactions.

If there is two tabs in the bottom menu, readers will have to swich from one to another to see all the people reactions, getting lose in having two options for one single use.

*Get the concept from utility  :* *For the reader, an annotations is a comment where a text is quoted*

At this stage of the reflexion, we can guess that, the comment tab and the annotation tab at the bottom of the page should be merged.

This makes a lot of sense to me, has this option been explored ? Has it been dropped for some reason ?

Indeed it makes a lot of sense but I'm thinking it should be an 'additional' integration using the annotations default implementation.

Annotations are designed (and will be implemented) to be structured and flexible, as in contain any kind of structured metadata (most probably defined by an xwiki class) with customizable views and all. This way they could be integrated with comments, if needed, or handled distinctly, if needed.

We could indeed push for this kind of integration with XE, if we decide we want it like this, but I think the generic annotations feature should stay a bit more 'disconnected'.

Thanks, Anca

...

...

*Stage 2 : get the interactions from usage chains

Build the usage chains*  --->  *Interactions * (priority : * to *** )

Notice : if statements lead to a too complexe interface, select only the main points that should be keeped

*First time reading :*

  - I read the page   --- While reading the page I notice the people annotations  *---->  User can see where are annotations on page ***   ----- *Then I may want to read it*  --->  User can read annotations directly on the page *** *  ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation box *---> User can comment the annotation directly on page* **   --- While reading I may quote a part of the text and comment it *--->  User can add an anotation direclty on page **** * *  - I read the comments   --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a part of the page *--->  User can see annotations in comments* ***   ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in context *---> ** **User can see where are annotations on page ****   --- While reading the comments I may react to it *--->  User can answer to comments (already done)* **   ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *--->  User can make annotation starting from the comment zone*** ** * * - I have read the page and want to make a comment *--->  User can make comments (already done)* ***   ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *--->  User can make annotation starting from the comment zone* ** *

**Comming back to see people reactions :* * * - I may look on the page to see if there is new part of the text quoted  *----> User can see where are annotations on page *** /or even/ **User can see wich annotations are new on page **   *----- *Then I may want to read it*  --->  User can read annotations directly on the page *** *  ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation box *---> User can comment the annotation directly on page* **

* * - More general way : I look for new comments *--->  User can see which are the last comments (already done)* ***   --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a part of the page *--->  User can see annotations in comments* ***   ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in context *---> ** **User can see where are annotations on page ****   --- While reading the comments I may react to it *--->  User can answer to comments (already done)* **   ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *--->  User can make annotation starting from the comment zone* **

*Quick reference :*

*User can see where are annotations on page *** **User can see which are the last comments (already done)* ****

**User can read annotations in comments* *** *User can read annotations directly on the page ****

*User can add an anotation direclty on page **** *User can add a comment (already done)* ***

*User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** *User can comment the comments (already done)* **** * User can add annotation starting from the comment zone* ** *

User can see wich annotations are new directly on page **

*Stage 3 : draw the interface*

Have a look at the schemas. ;-)

2010/1/15 Ludovic Dubost<[email protected]>

...

I'm not sure if one button is better than showing upfront some information. It might be something we might have as an option in the Wiki. And we need a way to collapse it..

However one thing I'm quite sure of, is that it's enough blue bars.. so we need something less visible in the page..

Select the text + add will be an issue since the "Add" button might not be on screen..

Otherwise it's very nice.. I like the user colors, the annotation setting and the annotation tab..

Note that an annotation creation or display can be much more than just one text..

Ludovic

Le 15/01/10 21:51, Thibaut DEVERAUX a écrit :

  Hi Cathy,

...

No time for visuals neither looking to much in it but did you think about a single button "show annotations options" ?

*Button at start :*

Show annotations options>

*Clicking on the button open a menu :*

Show annotations options>      A line showing the users names by colors     (if colors activated)      [V]  Hide/show icones on the page      -- [V]  Hide/show colors      [+]  Add annotation

*Interact with anotations directly on the page :* Use the icones on page to interact : see, modify, react...

Let me know...

Thibaut

2010/1/15 Ecaterina Valica<[email protected]>

> Hi, > > I made some UI suggestions for the annotations. > > Overview: > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/Annotations/pro... > Details: > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal > > Please let us (me and Anca) know what you think.

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hi Anca, The two are : 1 - An anotation module It is "just" annotation. Simple to understand. Just : As we said make it light on the interface. Do not use a separated tab for showing anotations in the botom. Just dont use a tab or put annoations in the comment tab. 2 - A quotes/anotation system integrated with comments Favorise discussion. More fluid to comment an anotation (else user will do it in the coment tab without a link to the anotation) Not an independant feature (avoid making bricks and bricks on interface that loose the user) Well, I would add a third design wich is a mix of the two. The anotation system but : - Annoatation tab content is mixed into comments tabs - Annotations are commentable (but are always the first element of the discussion) All of this makes sens, the choice is to be made on what the team feel : - The most simple for the user - The most powerfull to support user discussion about the document Makes me thinking that I'm in Paris, not far from you, and have a long time to wait between two meeting, so that we can have a voice discussion about this if you want. Have a nice day Thibaut 2010/1/19 Anca Luca <[email protected]>

Hi Thibaut,

On 01/19/2010 03:54 AM, Thibaut DEVERAUX wrote:

...

Hi,

I think the two make sens.

Which two? please detail a bit...

...

An annotation module as simple way to add personal notes on the page.

A "quotes + icones on page" module as a way to annotate and discuss directly on the page.

The only thing wich is making me wondering is the annotation tab as it add another way to get the information while there is already the icones on the page.

1/ Is this tab really usefull or just an additional feature : "best with but not needed"

2/ Isn't there is a risk of overloading the wiki if each feature has so many options ?

I'd like to sugsest two reflexion start points :

A/ Simplicity

It is never a problem to add one tab, but it is a problem when each feature add complexity.

Just imgagine someone want to add 10 features that use such tabs. Then he will have 14 tabs !

That why I'm pro *guetting the features a simple as possible* to avoid information overload when many features are activated.

--- Start point 1 --- Do not use a tab for annotation by default. Just leave them on page.

B/ Intergration

Also that's why I prefer to intergate several functionalities in a single functionality when there is a usage justification.

Here usages sugest that annoatation are on the same scope of use as comments for the readers. They may want to have it all at the same place to get an overveiw of people reactions.

--- Start point 2 --- Put the anotation tab content in the comment tab content. The deal is to make it so that the user understand the way he interact

with it.

...

@Anca

...

We could indeed push for this kind of integration with XE

Not sure to understand ? Please dont make it a standart feature. ;-) I guess for much users is not really need as they have other ways to tell about text details than using quotes+icones or annotation system (simplely copy/past in comments)

What I mean is that the annotations feature is a flexible add-on (call it like this if you want) which should be usable in a variety of wikis, more or less standard, and provide the ways to customize integration with these. If we want it like this, we can build the custom 'integrated with comments' flavour for XE (or any other wiki for that matter, but this wouldn't be our job), such as when an admin adds this add-on to his wiki it has it by default integrated in the comments thread.

In other words, this integration is only one of the applications of the annotation feature.

...

@Caty

...

- your display options are not very well positioned because the example

is a

...

...

poem, but in real life, the text will use all the area, and the right aligned position will not look so smooth as it looks now, being pushed up and outside the text.

Sure, I didn't looked so much in positionnement.

...

- your ideas and scenario about the similarities between annotations and comment is interesting and pertinent. Anca should tell her opinion about this from an implementation point of view.

- if the annotations were comments, then we don't need a separation of terms. The icon should be comment instead of annotation and they should suppose to be localized comments, not something else. And also we didn't need two add actions in the tab.

More preciselly is not an annotation module but a quote module that also makes possible to have icones on text, providing the same service as an annotation module.

I tried a design where there is no box showing comments on pages but a link to the right place in comment zone. However I find it to be less fluid for the user. You can have a look on it, it may grant some ideas :

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp...

...

...

- I disagree with the explicit display of replies in the annotation details/actions overlay. This representation could get very big and

block

...

...

all the text behind. Also if we would display it like this, then the Tab would be redundant.

Well, I think the replies are needed because it become a conversation. So that the whoole conversation is needed to understand the quote.

I'm not sur having big boxes is a problem. When you open a box you are reading the box, then you close it. Indeed most of boxes will not be big.

...

- I agree with the icon from the tab that takes you to the location in the content.

Think it could be added in the original design too.

...

- The problem with this approach is that we need to annotate not just text, but add tags and other metadata to the content. This is an argument to have another tab for annotations.

Well, I'm not sure to understand it. Is is programmation matters ? If not I think that quoting the text is already a good thing. The quote button is on the page wich, in an information architecture way, sugsest to the user that this is the text that is to be quoted.

What Cati means is that the annotation module is designed to potentially use any type of data to annotate a text with (right now indeed is only a 'comment' but it will be a data structure: specific fields, forms to fill in when adding, etc), that each developer adding the annotations in his wiki will be able to specify (build an XWiki class to describe it, most probable). For example, imagine syntax correction of a text, and being able to specify, for each annotation, the type of mistake that is made, what to replace it with, an explanation about the mistake, a vote count specifying how many users agree with it. Unless we decide that comments have by default structure too -- which is not necessarily a bad idea --, integration of the two is not that natural since now they are different types of data. And from this my idea that integrating the annotations with comments shouldn't be _the default_ but _one_ of the possible applications, for the case when the type of the data is the same.

Now of course, there is also the other approach, that disconnecting the annotations from the comments is one of the possible applications... :)

Thanks, Anca

...

...

- when you show linked replies for an annotation, the new comment you

add is

...

...

an annotation for the original annotation? or for the comment? :)

Hay... I don't understand it at all.

What user can do is : - Quoting the text while reading, using the quote button at the top of the text. - Opening a conversation related to the text quote directly on the page. - Quoting the text while writting a comment, using the quote button in the comment field - Interacting in a classic way in comments

The idea is more making a quote system, able to provide the same service as an annotation system adding the two first ways of interacting to the two last which would be the "classics" of a quoting system.

Thx Thibaut

2010/1/18 Anca Luca<[email protected]>

...

Hi JV,

On 01/18/2010 07:21 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:

...

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Thibaut DEVERAUX <[email protected]> wrote:

...

I'm ok to the "add" button. This was only a very quick axis for

reflexion.

...

...

...

I agree to ludovic on the point there is a need on something less

visible on

...

the page. Imo we can also make it more simple in the toughts.

As I can't sleep this morning I have made some more constructed UX about the module. Editable pdf (use illustrator or inkscape) :

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp...

...

Png on Flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/thibautdeveraux/sets/72157623219280278/ This is ideas, use it in a "remix" way. ;)

Notes taken during the design (hope it is clear) :

* **Stage 1 : Get the concept from utility

What are the utility uses of annotations ?*

I guess that, in a global point of view, the use of anotations is to discuss on details points of a text.

For example Mr John have redacted a commercial proposition and the team makes a review of it.

Generally people quote the text in the comments. With the annotation module it will be more easy to find the parts of the text wich have been commented.

*===> Annotations are comments ?*

For readers the utility use of comments is to see people reactions. Both comments and annotations are people reactions.

If there is two tabs in the bottom menu, readers will have to swich from one to another to see all the people reactions, getting lose in having two options for one single use.

*Get the concept from utility :* *For the reader, an annotations is a comment where a text is quoted*

At this stage of the reflexion, we can guess that, the comment tab and the annotation tab at the bottom of the page should be merged.

This makes a lot of sense to me, has this option been explored ? Has it been dropped for some reason ?

Indeed it makes a lot of sense but I'm thinking it should be an 'additional' integration using the annotations default implementation.

Annotations are designed (and will be implemented) to be structured and flexible, as in contain any kind of structured metadata (most probably defined by an xwiki class) with customizable views and all. This way they could be integrated with comments, if needed, or handled distinctly, if needed.

We could indeed push for this kind of integration with XE, if we decide we want it like this, but I think the generic annotations feature should stay a bit more 'disconnected'.

Thanks, Anca

...

...

*Stage 2 : get the interactions from usage chains

Build the usage chains* ---> *Interactions * (priority : * to ***

)

...

...

Notice : if statements lead to a too complexe interface, select only

the

...

main points that should be keeped

*First time reading :*

- I read the page --- While reading the page I notice the people annotations *----> User can see where are annotations on page *** ----- *Then I may want to read it* ---> User can read annotations directly on the page *** * ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation box *---> User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** --- While reading I may quote a part of the text and comment it *---> User can add an anotation direclty on page **** * * - I read the comments --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a part of the page *---> User can see annotations in comments* *** ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in context *---> ** **User can see where are annotations on page **** --- While reading the comments I may react to it *---> User can answer to comments (already done)* ** ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make annotation starting from the comment zone*** ** * * - I have read the page and want to make a comment *---> User can make comments (already done)* *** ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make annotation starting from the comment zone* ** *

**Comming back to see people reactions :* * * - I may look on the page to see if there is new part of the text quoted *----> User can see where are annotations on page *** /or even/ **User can see wich annotations are new on page ** *----- *Then I may want to read it* ---> User can read annotations directly on the page *** * ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation box *---> User can comment the annotation directly on page* **

* * - More general way : I look for new comments *---> User can see which are the last comments (already done)* *** --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a part of the page *---> User can see annotations in comments* *** ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in context *---> ** **User can see where are annotations on page **** --- While reading the comments I may react to it *---> User can answer to comments (already done)* ** ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make annotation starting from the comment zone* **

*Quick reference :*

*User can see where are annotations on page *** **User can see which are the last comments (already done)* ****

**User can read annotations in comments* *** *User can read annotations directly on the page ****

*User can add an anotation direclty on page **** *User can add a comment (already done)* ***

*User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** *User can comment the comments (already done)* **** * User can add annotation starting from the comment zone* ** *

User can see wich annotations are new directly on page **

*Stage 3 : draw the interface*

Have a look at the schemas. ;-)

2010/1/15 Ludovic Dubost<[email protected]>

...

I'm not sure if one button is better than showing upfront some

information.

...

It might be something we might have as an option in the Wiki. And we need a way to collapse it..

However one thing I'm quite sure of, is that it's enough blue bars.. so we need something less visible in the page..

Select the text + add will be an issue since the "Add" button might not be on screen..

Otherwise it's very nice.. I like the user colors, the annotation setting and the annotation tab..

Note that an annotation creation or display can be much more than just one text..

Ludovic

Le 15/01/10 21:51, Thibaut DEVERAUX a écrit :

Hi Cathy, > > No time for visuals neither looking to much in it but did you think about > a > single button "show annotations options" ? > > > *Button at start :* > > Show annotations options> > > *Clicking on the button open a menu :* > > Show annotations options> > A line showing the users names by colors (if colors activated) > [V] Hide/show icones on the page > -- [V] Hide/show colors > [+] Add annotation > > *Interact with anotations directly on the page :* > Use the icones on page to interact : see, modify, react... > > > Let me know... > > Thibaut > > > 2010/1/15 Ecaterina Valica<[email protected]> > > > >> Hi, >> >> I made some UI suggestions for the annotations. >> >> Overview: >> >> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/Annotations/pro... >> Details: >> >> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal >> >> Please let us (me and Anca) know what you think.

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Hi, Thanks for all your feedback. ----A---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * there should be a way to completely hide the annotations: the note icons & the annotations bar. * also, completely hide should include the blue bar or filtering panel or

anything is there * there should be a link from the top of the document to the annotations tab, as for the other tabs (comments, attachments, etc), or any other way of accessing it from the annotations context

Please take a look at: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... - Annotations is integrated as a toggle (just like Watch). Clicking on it reveals the annotations options: -- filtering (show / hide all annotations + annotator highlighting ), -- icon display (show / hide annotation icons + icon's legend), -- add help (+/- Add link + how to add annotation help). - This way you can view the page in the normal manner, without any enhancements. ---B----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Otherwise put, highlight & icon should go together.

I disagree here: Highlight and Icon offers different types of information. They should be represented separately. - Highlight is used to show the limits of an annotation (start, end); - Highlight is used to visually represent by color the author of the annotation (or any other metadata); - Highlight always present in the text can disturb the user from scanning the text, because colors can be very distracting. - Icon is used to show the presence of an annotation at a given location; - Icon is used to visually represent the type of the annotation (valid, modified, dangling); - Icon is less disturbing and can be easily skipped when scanning text; ---C----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is the event that triggers the annotation details/actions overlay: <highlight><body of annotation></highlight><icon/> Normal display: <body of the annotation></icon> Hover: -- body of the annotation: nothing happens. User can select the text, copy paste it and react with it in the normal mode. -- icon: show the highlight - this way you can see the limits of the annotation. The action is obvious since you're hovering a foreign object of the text. Click: -- body of the annotation: browser native behavior (selects a word, a line); -- icon: display annotation details/actions overlay. When we have the highlight present (with or without the icon) the details/actions overlay needs to appear on click. ---D----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * in the annotations tab, the order of the info should be: selected text and

annotation metadata (comment) rather than the other way around, because usually the metadata refers the text and it's more natural for the user to know the annotated text when it reads the metadata. However that whole tab should be customizable for extra metadata so that's not that important

When I divided the annotations in two parts (contextual actions + tab) the rationale was like this: - contextual actions were for browsing: text is king, annotations are helpful for the text; - tab: annotations are important, this way you can scan them easily without the need to click for each one. That's why I put the importance on the annotation and not on the annotated text. ---Thibaut--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you so much for your feedback and for your SVG (I've reused it for the last mockup). The HTML+CSS for the first mockup were at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Annotations - your display options are not very well positioned because the example is a poem, but in real life, the text will use all the area, and the right aligned position will not look so smooth as it looks now, being pushed up and outside the text. - your ideas and scenario about the similarities between annotations and comment is interesting and pertinent. Anca should tell her opinion about this from an implementation point of view. - if the annotations were comments, then we don't need a separation of terms. The icon should be comment instead of annotation and they should suppose to be localized comments, not something else. And also we didn't need two add actions in the tab. - I disagree with the explicit display of replies in the annotation details/actions overlay. This representation could get very big and block all the text behind. Also if we would display it like this, then the Tab would be redundant. - I agree with the icon from the tab that takes you to the location in the content. - The problem with this approach is that we need to annotate not just text, but add tags and other metadata to the content. This is an argument to have another tab for annotations. - when you show linked replies for an annotation, the new comment you add is an annotation for the original annotation? or for the comment? :) Thank you again for your comments. Was great to see another approach for the annotations. Caty

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Anca Luca <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Caty

On 01/18/2010 06:51 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

Hi,

Thanks for all your feedback.

----A----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* there should be a way to completely hide the annotations:

the note icons&  the annotations bar.

* also, completely hide should include the blue bar or filtering panel or

...

anything is there * there should be a link from the top of the document to the annotations tab, as for the other tabs (comments, attachments, etc), or any other way of accessing it from the annotations context

Please take a look at:

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp...

oh yeah!

However, does it make sense next to watch list?

I like the proposal too, some remarks: 1/ Watch could be moved to 'more actions' or put in the left part of the menu 2/ I'd rather insert the annotation pane below the menu without hiding the title, using a js sliding effect (note that I don't like its use in the administration but I think it'd fit well here)

...

- Annotations is integrated as a toggle (just like Watch). Clicking on it reveals the annotations options:      -- filtering (show / hide all annotations + annotator highlighting ),      -- icon display (show / hide annotation icons + icon's legend),      -- add help (+/- Add link + how to add annotation help).

- This way you can view the page in the normal manner, without any enhancements.

indeed it fixes the problem, but I think 2 switches for the user to display the annotations & annotation highlights (or only one, or only the other) would be a bit of an overkill (otherwise put, I think the 4 modes of annotation display would confuse in more cases then it would help).

...

---B-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Otherwise put, highlight&  icon should go together.

...

I disagree here: Highlight and Icon offers different types of information. They should be represented separately.

- Highlight is used to show the limits of an annotation (start, end); - Highlight is used to visually represent by color the author of the annotation (or any other metadata); - Highlight always present in the text can disturb the user from scanning the text, because colors can be very distracting.

- Icon is used to show the presence of an annotation at a given location; - Icon is used to visually represent the type of the annotation (valid, modified, dangling); - Icon is less disturbing and can be easily skipped when scanning text;

agreed (with your disagreement) in the case when you always display icons. In the case when you can hide annotations completely, they should go together, for the same overkill reason.

Thanks, Anca

...

---C-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is the event that triggers the annotation details/actions overlay:

<highlight><body of annotation></highlight><icon/>

Normal display:<body of the annotation></icon>

Hover:       -- body of the annotation: nothing happens. User can select the text, copy paste it and react with it in the normal mode.       -- icon: show the highlight - this way you can see the limits of the annotation. The action is obvious since you're hovering a foreign object of the text.

Click:       -- body of the annotation: browser native behavior (selects a word, a line);       -- icon: display annotation details/actions overlay.

When we have the highlight present (with or without the icon) the details/actions overlay needs to appear on click.

---D-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* in the annotations tab, the order of the info should be: selected text and

...

annotation metadata (comment) rather than the other way around, because usually the metadata refers the text and it's more natural for the user to know the annotated text when it reads the metadata. However that whole tab should be customizable for extra metadata so that's not that important

When I divided the annotations in two parts (contextual actions + tab) the rationale was like this:

- contextual actions were for browsing: text is king, annotations are helpful for the text; - tab: annotations are important, this way you can scan them easily without the need to click for each one.

That's why I put the importance on the annotation and not on the annotated text.

---Thibaut---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you so much for your feedback and for your SVG (I've reused it for the last mockup). The HTML+CSS for the first mockup were at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Annotations

- your display options are not very well positioned because the example is a poem, but in real life, the text will use all the area, and the right aligned position will not look so smooth as it looks now, being pushed up and outside the text.

- your ideas and scenario about the similarities between annotations and comment is interesting and pertinent.  Anca should tell her opinion about this from an implementation point of view.

- if the annotations were comments, then we don't need a separation of terms. The icon should be comment instead of annotation and they should suppose to be localized comments, not something else. And also we didn't need two add actions in the tab.

- I disagree with the explicit display of replies in the annotation details/actions overlay. This representation could get very big and block all the text behind. Also if we would display it like this, then the Tab would be redundant.

- I agree with the icon from the tab that takes you to the location in the content.

- The problem with this approach is that we need to annotate not just text, but add tags and other metadata to the content. This is an argument to have another tab for annotations.

- when you show linked replies for an annotation, the new comment you add is an annotation for the original annotation? or for the comment? :)

Thank you again for your comments. Was great to see another approach for the annotations.

Caty _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hi devs, On 01/16/2010 09:14 PM, Anca Luca wrote: [snip]

* adding an annotation could be done by pushing the "add button" then going in the content& selecting text and when the mouse is up, the create window appears. In other words, pushing the add button would have the same behaviour as holding the CTRL key down. Speaking of which, it seems that CTRL + select is reserved in firefox for selecting a table or smth, and I also think it's reserved to selecting full words in IEs. Could you investigate on that and try to figure out what other modifier could do the job? (if a modifier is required)

I had a look at this and I have the following results: * CTRL + select text: - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for 'select full paragraph' in IE browsers which means it will select the entire paragraph and will be hard to get the selection working normally on the text you want to add annotation on (it's possible to get to a normal select mode but with some pain). I haven't found a way to prevent that behaviour - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for selecting entire table cells in Firefox: cannot select only the text in a cell, by any means. I haven't found a way to prevent that behaviour * ALT + select text: - seems to be fine on all browsers, doesn't interfere with any other reserved keys (tested on firefox, chrome, IE) under windows, some mac BUT - on Ubuntu, the ALT+drag combination is a system function for moving windows around on the screen. There is no way I can 'override' that from the browser. * SHIFT + select text: - It's weird on ff and chrome since it's an accessibility shortcut for selecting text (for those who cannot drag). Namely if you hold shift while mouse down, it will select all the content from the last click you made.) Because of all these, I think it would be hard to rely on some modifier key, so we need a more accessible alternative. By also looking at some other annotations in other applications, I see the following options: 1/ the alternative described at: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal... (but which has dissappeared from the last proposal at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... ), except that it should be more accessible since it would now be the default way of adding annotations. (making it visible on scroll for example) 2/ while annotations are 'activated' (all or partially displayed on the document) simply selecting (no modifier) will trigger the annotation dialog 3/ simply selecting always displays a little icon which can be clicked to open the create dialog (for example, the way the accelerators icon is added to selected text on IE8). It would less annoy regular selection, and also enable annotations on it, but it's an extraclick to add an annotation 4/ provide a checkbox "annotations mode", which when activated (regardless of whether other annotations are displayed or not), will trigger annotation add dialog on simple select. This solution is similar to 1/ WDYT? How would you see it? Thanks a lot, Anca

On 01/29/2010 03:53 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

Short story: Can't use modifier keys since there is no decent cross browser alternative.

New "default" way: 1/ current solution presented at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal... but with more accessible "add" button (options?) 2/ when annotations are shown simple select triggers the display of annotation dialog 3/ simple select displays a little add icon to be clicked and display the annotation dialog (1/ with button next to selection) 4/ checkbox to enable 2/

WDYT?

I think I like 2 or 4.

I prefer 3. Without a mouse it's easy to break a selection, so here one saved click sometimes means an extra close dialog. But I wonder how will it be implemented, simple onmousedown/onmouseup handlers? What happens if I select text using the keyboard? What happens if I select text with the mouse then adjust the selection with the keyboard?

See below for long version.

Thanks, Anca

On 01/29/2010 04:36 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Hi devs,

On 01/16/2010 09:14 PM, Anca Luca wrote: [snip]

...

* adding an annotation could be done by pushing the "add button" then going in the content& selecting text and when the mouse is up, the create window appears. In other words, pushing the add button would have the same behaviour as holding the CTRL key down. Speaking of which, it seems that CTRL + select is reserved in firefox for selecting a table or smth, and I also think it's reserved to selecting full words in IEs. Could you investigate on that and try to figure out what other modifier could do the job? (if a modifier is required)

I had a look at this and I have the following results: * CTRL + select text: - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for 'select full paragraph' in IE browsers which means it will select the entire paragraph and will be hard to get the selection working normally on the text you want to add annotation on (it's possible to get to a normal select mode but with some pain). I haven't found a way to prevent that behaviour - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for selecting entire table cells in Firefox: cannot select only the text in a cell, by any means. I haven't found a way to prevent that behaviour * ALT + select text: - seems to be fine on all browsers, doesn't interfere with any other reserved keys (tested on firefox, chrome, IE) under windows, some mac BUT - on Ubuntu, the ALT+drag combination is a system function for moving windows around on the screen. There is no way I can 'override' that from the browser. * SHIFT + select text: - It's weird on ff and chrome since it's an accessibility shortcut for selecting text (for those who cannot drag). Namely if you hold shift while mouse down, it will select all the content from the last click you made.)

Because of all these, I think it would be hard to rely on some modifier key, so we need a more accessible alternative.

By also looking at some other annotations in other applications, I see the following options: 1/ the alternative described at: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal... (but which has dissappeared from the last proposal at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... ), except that it should be more accessible since it would now be the default way of adding annotations. (making it visible on scroll for example) 2/ while annotations are 'activated' (all or partially displayed on the document) simply selecting (no modifier) will trigger the annotation dialog 3/ simply selecting always displays a little icon which can be clicked to open the create dialog (for example, the way the accelerators icon is added to selected text on IE8). It would less annoy regular selection, and also enable annotations on it, but it's an extraclick to add an annotation 4/ provide a checkbox "annotations mode", which when activated (regardless of whether other annotations are displayed or not), will trigger annotation add dialog on simple select. This solution is similar to 1/

WDYT? How would you see it?

Thanks a lot, Anca

-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/

On 01/29/2010 05:39 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

Hi Sergiu

On 01/29/2010 06:28 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 03:53 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Short story: Can't use modifier keys since there is no decent cross browser alternative.

New "default" way: 1/ current solution presented at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal... but with more accessible "add" button (options?) 2/ when annotations are shown simple select triggers the display of annotation dialog 3/ simple select displays a little add icon to be clicked and display the annotation dialog (1/ with button next to selection) 4/ checkbox to enable 2/

WDYT?

I think I like 2 or 4.

I prefer 3. Without a mouse it's easy to break a selection, so here one saved click sometimes means an extra close dialog.

I don't know if I understand exactly, but for me any would go, so I registered your opinion.

It's not a strong opinion, and definitely not a -1 for all the others, just my preference.

...

But I wonder how will it be implemented, simple onmousedown/onmouseup handlers?What happens if I select text using the keyboard?

I can look into selection handlers, but if it takes too long, I will do mouseup mousedown since frankly, without being disrespectful to users needs, I doubt there would be anyone else selecting text with the keyboard.

As long as it will be easy to change the trigger later, feel free to take the easiest approach at the moment.

...

What happens if I select text with the mouse then adjust the selection with the keyboard?

That would be simple, I could just use whatever selection in the document when user clicks the "add annotation" button (the form submit that is).

Then this is good enough for my needs.

Thanks, Anca

...

...

See below for long version.

Thanks, Anca

On 01/29/2010 04:36 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Hi devs,

On 01/16/2010 09:14 PM, Anca Luca wrote: [snip]

...

* adding an annotation could be done by pushing the "add button" then going in the content& selecting text and when the mouse is up, the create window appears. In other words, pushing the add button would have the same behaviour as holding the CTRL key down. Speaking of which, it seems that CTRL + select is reserved in firefox for selecting a table or smth, and I also think it's reserved to selecting full words in IEs. Could you investigate on that and try to figure out what other modifier could do the job? (if a modifier is required)

I had a look at this and I have the following results: * CTRL + select text: - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for 'select full paragraph' in IE browsers which means it will select the entire paragraph and will be hard to get the selection working normally on the text you want to add annotation on (it's possible to get to a normal select mode but with some pain). I haven't found a way to prevent that behaviour - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for selecting entire table cells in Firefox: cannot select only the text in a cell, by any means. I haven't found a way to prevent that behaviour * ALT + select text: - seems to be fine on all browsers, doesn't interfere with any other reserved keys (tested on firefox, chrome, IE) under windows, some mac BUT - on Ubuntu, the ALT+drag combination is a system function for moving windows around on the screen. There is no way I can 'override' that from the browser. * SHIFT + select text: - It's weird on ff and chrome since it's an accessibility shortcut for selecting text (for those who cannot drag). Namely if you hold shift while mouse down, it will select all the content from the last click you made.)

Because of all these, I think it would be hard to rely on some modifier key, so we need a more accessible alternative.

By also looking at some other annotations in other applications, I see the following options: 1/ the alternative described at: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal... (but which has dissappeared from the last proposal at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... ), except that it should be more accessible since it would now be the default way of adding annotations. (making it visible on scroll for example) 2/ while annotations are 'activated' (all or partially displayed on the document) simply selecting (no modifier) will trigger the annotation dialog 3/ simply selecting always displays a little icon which can be clicked to open the create dialog (for example, the way the accelerators icon is added to selected text on IE8). It would less annoy regular selection, and also enable annotations on it, but it's an extraclick to add an annotation 4/ provide a checkbox "annotations mode", which when activated (regardless of whether other annotations are displayed or not), will trigger annotation add dialog on simple select. This solution is similar to 1/

WDYT? How would you see it?

Thanks a lot, Anca

-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 13:23, Ecaterina Valica <[email protected]> wrote:

IMO:

There is an Add button in the Annotation Options Area.

- I go to the content - I SELECT the text - I press: - OR the Add button - OR Ctrl + defined key

also after I hit the shortcut, the selected text is being highlighted in yellow (or any other color that the annotation has)

- A popup at the selected text location appears to let me add an annotation.

This way I can select the text without any problem in my usual copy/paste rutine. And when I want to add an annotation I simply click a button or have a key shortcut.

I don't understand why it is necessarily to have the Ctrl activated when I do my selection or any other versions that appear boxes when I select text.

3) is ok too

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 18:48, Sergiu Dumitriu <[email protected]> wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 05:39 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Hi Sergiu

On 01/29/2010 06:28 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 03:53 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Short story: Can't use modifier keys since there is no decent cross browser alternative.

New "default" way: 1/ current solution presented at

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

...

with more accessible "add" button (options?) 2/ when annotations are shown simple select triggers the display of annotation dialog 3/ simple select displays a little add icon to be clicked and display the annotation dialog (1/ with button next to selection) 4/ checkbox to enable 2/

WDYT?

I think I like 2 or 4.

I prefer 3. Without a mouse it's easy to break a selection, so here one saved click sometimes means an extra close dialog.

I don't know if I understand exactly, but for me any would go, so I registered your opinion.

It's not a strong opinion, and definitely not a -1 for all the others, just my preference.

...

...

But I wonder how will it be implemented, simple onmousedown/onmouseup handlers?What happens if I select text using the keyboard?

I can look into selection handlers, but if it takes too long, I will do mouseup mousedown since frankly, without being disrespectful to users needs, I doubt there would be anyone else selecting text with the keyboard.

As long as it will be easy to change the trigger later, feel free to take the easiest approach at the moment.

...

...

What happens if I select text with the mouse then adjust the selection with the keyboard?

That would be simple, I could just use whatever selection in the document when user clicks the "add annotation" button (the form submit that is).

Then this is good enough for my needs.

...

Thanks, Anca

...

...

See below for long version.

Thanks, Anca

On 01/29/2010 04:36 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Hi devs,

On 01/16/2010 09:14 PM, Anca Luca wrote: [snip] > * adding an annotation could be done by pushing the "add button"

then going in

...

...

...

> the content& selecting text and when the mouse is up, the create window > appears. In other words, pushing the add button would have the same behaviour as > holding the CTRL key down. Speaking of which, it seems that CTRL + select is > reserved in firefox for selecting a table or smth, and I also think it's > reserved to selecting full words in IEs. Could you investigate on that and try > to figure out what other modifier could do the job? (if a modifier is required)

I had a look at this and I have the following results: * CTRL + select text: - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for 'select full paragraph' in IE browsers which means it will select the entire paragraph and will be hard to get the selection working normally on the text you want to add annotation on (it's possible to get to a normal select mode but with some pain). I haven't found a way to prevent that behaviour - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for selecting entire table cells in Firefox: cannot select only the text in a cell, by any means. I haven't found a way to prevent that behaviour * ALT + select text: - seems to be fine on all browsers, doesn't interfere with any other reserved keys (tested on firefox, chrome, IE) under windows, some mac BUT - on Ubuntu, the ALT+drag combination is a system function for moving windows around on the screen. There is no way I can 'override' that from the browser. * SHIFT + select text: - It's weird on ff and chrome since it's an accessibility shortcut for selecting text (for those who cannot drag). Namely if you hold shift while mouse down, it will select all the content from the last click you made.)

Because of all these, I think it would be hard to rely on some modifier key, so we need a more accessible alternative.

By also looking at some other annotations in other applications, I see the following options: 1/ the alternative described at:

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

...

which has dissappeared from the last proposal at

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp...

...

), except that it should be more accessible since it would now be the default way of adding annotations. (making it visible on scroll for example) 2/ while annotations are 'activated' (all or partially displayed on the document) simply selecting (no modifier) will trigger the annotation dialog 3/ simply selecting always displays a little icon which can be clicked to open the create dialog (for example, the way the accelerators icon is added to selected text on IE8). It would less annoy regular selection, and also enable annotations on it, but it's an extraclick to add an annotation 4/ provide a checkbox "annotations mode", which when activated (regardless of whether other annotations are displayed or not), will trigger annotation add dialog on simple select. This solution is similar to 1/

WDYT? How would you see it?

Thanks a lot, Anca

-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On 02/01/2010 01:28 PM, Jerome Velociter wrote:

Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

IMO:

There is an Add button in the Annotation Options Area.

- I go to the content - I SELECT the text - I press: - OR the Add button - OR Ctrl + defined key - A popup at the selected text location appears to let me add an annotation.

This way I can select the text without any problem in my usual copy/paste rutine. And when I want to add an annotation I simply click a button or have a key shortcut.

I don't understand why it is necessarily to have the Ctrl activated when I do my selection or any other versions that appear boxes when I select text.

Same here.

I like the idea that the "add" button appears when selecting text (without the CTRL key).

It also enable some discoverability of the feature (I'm sure lot of us users have that habit to select text as we read)

But that would be solution behind door number 3, what Cati is proposing above is the button in the annotations options area, which is at the top of the document + a key shortcut to 'click' that button even when you don't see it. Thanks, Anca

Jerome.

...

3) is ok too

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 18:48, Sergiu Dumitriu<[email protected]> wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 05:39 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Hi Sergiu

On 01/29/2010 06:28 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 03:53 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Short story: Can't use modifier keys since there is no decent cross browser alternative. New "default" way: 1/ current solution presented at

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

...

with more accessible "add" button (options?) 2/ when annotations are shown simple select triggers the display of annotation dialog 3/ simple select displays a little add icon to be clicked and display the annotation dialog (1/ with button next to selection) 4/ checkbox to enable 2/

WDYT?

I think I like 2 or 4. I prefer 3. Without a mouse it's easy to break a selection, so here one saved click sometimes means an extra close dialog. I don't know if I understand exactly, but for me any would go, so I registered your opinion. It's not a strong opinion, and definitely not a -1 for all the others, just my preference.

...

...

But I wonder how will it be implemented, simple onmousedown/onmouseup handlers?What happens if I select text using the keyboard? I can look into selection handlers, but if it takes too long, I will do mouseup mousedown since frankly, without being disrespectful to users needs, I doubt there would be anyone else selecting text with the keyboard. As long as it will be easy to change the trigger later, feel free to take the easiest approach at the moment.

...

...

What happens if I select text with the mouse then adjust the selection with the keyboard? That would be simple, I could just use whatever selection in the document when user clicks the "add annotation" button (the form submit that is). Then this is good enough for my needs.

...

Thanks, Anca

...

...

See below for long version.

Thanks, Anca

On 01/29/2010 04:36 PM, Anca Luca wrote: > Hi devs, > > On 01/16/2010 09:14 PM, Anca Luca wrote: > [snip] >> * adding an annotation could be done by pushing the "add button" then going in >> the content& selecting text and when the mouse is up, the create window >> appears. In other words, pushing the add button would have the same behaviour as >> holding the CTRL key down. Speaking of which, it seems that CTRL + select is >> reserved in firefox for selecting a table or smth, and I also think it's >> reserved to selecting full words in IEs. Could you investigate on that and try >> to figure out what other modifier could do the job? (if a modifier is required) > I had a look at this and I have the following results: > * CTRL + select text: > - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for 'select full paragraph' in IE browsers > which means it will select the entire paragraph and will be hard to get the > selection working normally on the text you want to add annotation on (it's > possible to get to a normal select mode but with some pain). I haven't found a > way to prevent that behaviour > - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for selecting entire table cells in Firefox: > cannot select only the text in a cell, by any means. I haven't found a way to > prevent that behaviour > * ALT + select text: > - seems to be fine on all browsers, doesn't interfere with any other reserved > keys (tested on firefox, chrome, IE) under windows, some mac BUT > - on Ubuntu, the ALT+drag combination is a system function for moving windows > around on the screen. There is no way I can 'override' that from the browser. > * SHIFT + select text: > - It's weird on ff and chrome since it's an accessibility shortcut for selecting > text (for those who cannot drag). Namely if you hold shift while mouse down, it > will select all the content from the last click you made.) > > Because of all these, I think it would be hard to rely on some modifier key, so > we need a more accessible alternative. > > By also looking at some other annotations in other applications, I see the > following options: > 1/ the alternative described at: > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal... > which has dissappeared from the last proposal at > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... > ), except that it should be more accessible since it would now be the default > way of adding annotations. (making it visible on scroll for example) > 2/ while annotations are 'activated' (all or partially displayed on the > document) simply selecting (no modifier) will trigger the annotation dialog > 3/ simply selecting always displays a little icon which can be clicked to open > the create dialog (for example, the way the accelerators icon is added to > selected text on IE8). It would less annoy regular selection, and also enable > annotations on it, but it's an extraclick to add an annotation > 4/ provide a checkbox "annotations mode", which when activated (regardless of > whether other annotations are displayed or not), will trigger annotation add > dialog on simple select. This solution is similar to 1/ > > WDYT? How would you see it? > > Thanks a lot, > Anca

-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hi,

Cati,

On 02/01/2010 01:23 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

IMO:

There is an Add button in the Annotation Options Area.

- I go to the content - I SELECT the text - I press: - OR the Add button - OR Ctrl + defined key

Indeed, this sounds like a good option for making the 'add' button accessible in any context (when scrolling for example).

...

- A popup at the selected text location appears to let me add an annotation.

This way I can select the text without any problem in my usual copy/paste rutine. And when I want to add an annotation I simply click a button or have a key shortcut.

I don't understand why it is necessarily to have the Ctrl activated when I do my selection or any other versions that appear boxes when I select text.

nop, no need, a meta + shortcut indeed is a good choice (and technically easier to achieve, also by using the actual selection rather than the clicks, as Sergiu was directing, a few mails earlier). The only thing is that it would be an extra click / extra button push (just as 3/ requires an extra click), but I think that's ok.

Thanks, Anca

...

3) is ok too

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 18:48, Sergiu Dumitriu<[email protected]> wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 05:39 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Hi Sergiu

On 01/29/2010 06:28 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 03:53 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Short story: Can't use modifier keys since there is no decent cross browser alternative.

New "default" way: 1/ current solution presented at

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

...

...

...

...

...

with more accessible "add" button (options?) 2/ when annotations are shown simple select triggers the display of annotation dialog 3/ simple select displays a little add icon to be clicked and display the annotation dialog (1/ with button next to selection) 4/ checkbox to enable 2/

WDYT?

I think I like 2 or 4.

I prefer 3. Without a mouse it's easy to break a selection, so here one saved click sometimes means an extra close dialog.

I don't know if I understand exactly, but for me any would go, so I registered your opinion.

It's not a strong opinion, and definitely not a -1 for all the others, just my preference.

...

...

But I wonder how will it be implemented, simple onmousedown/onmouseup handlers?What happens if I select text using the keyboard?

I can look into selection handlers, but if it takes too long, I will do mouseup mousedown since frankly, without being disrespectful to users needs, I doubt there would be anyone else selecting text with the keyboard.

As long as it will be easy to change the trigger later, feel free to take the easiest approach at the moment.

...

...

What happens if I select text with the mouse then adjust the selection with the keyboard?

That would be simple, I could just use whatever selection in the document when user clicks the "add annotation" button (the form submit that is).

Then this is good enough for my needs.

...

Thanks, Anca

...

...

See below for long version.

Thanks, Anca

On 01/29/2010 04:36 PM, Anca Luca wrote: > Hi devs, > > On 01/16/2010 09:14 PM, Anca Luca wrote: > [snip] >> * adding an annotation could be done by pushing the "add button"

then going in

...

...

>> the content& selecting text and when the mouse is up, the create window >> appears. In other words, pushing the add button would have the same behaviour as >> holding the CTRL key down. Speaking of which, it seems that CTRL + select is >> reserved in firefox for selecting a table or smth, and I also think it's >> reserved to selecting full words in IEs. Could you investigate on that and try >> to figure out what other modifier could do the job? (if a modifier is required) > > I had a look at this and I have the following results: > * CTRL + select text: > - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for 'select full paragraph' in IE browsers > which means it will select the entire paragraph and will be hard to get the > selection working normally on the text you want to add annotation on (it's > possible to get to a normal select mode but with some pain). I haven't found a > way to prevent that behaviour > - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for selecting entire table cells in Firefox: > cannot select only the text in a cell, by any means. I haven't found a way to > prevent that behaviour > * ALT + select text: > - seems to be fine on all browsers, doesn't interfere with any other reserved > keys (tested on firefox, chrome, IE) under windows, some mac BUT > - on Ubuntu, the ALT+drag combination is a system function for moving windows > around on the screen. There is no way I can 'override' that from the browser. > * SHIFT + select text: > - It's weird on ff and chrome since it's an accessibility shortcut for selecting > text (for those who cannot drag). Namely if you hold shift while mouse down, it > will select all the content from the last click you made.) > > Because of all these, I think it would be hard to rely on some modifier key, so > we need a more accessible alternative. > > By also looking at some other annotations in other applications, I see the > following options: > 1/ the alternative described at: >

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

...

...

...

...

> which has dissappeared from the last proposal at >

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp...

...

...

...

...

> ), except that it should be more accessible since it would now be the default > way of adding annotations. (making it visible on scroll for example) > 2/ while annotations are 'activated' (all or partially displayed on the > document) simply selecting (no modifier) will trigger the annotation dialog > 3/ simply selecting always displays a little icon which can be clicked to open > the create dialog (for example, the way the accelerators icon is added to > selected text on IE8). It would less annoy regular selection, and also enable > annotations on it, but it's an extraclick to add an annotation > 4/ provide a checkbox "annotations mode", which when activated (regardless of > whether other annotations are displayed or not), will trigger annotation add > dialog on simple select. This solution is similar to 1/ > > WDYT? How would you see it? > > Thanks a lot, > Anca

-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

---

devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

I'm +1 for 3) since it increases the discoverability of the annotations features. I think it's important that people can easily discover that text can be annotated. The other options seem too complex to me and will probably not get used by the majority of users, especially those involving only keypresses. Guillaume -- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki SAS Skype: wikibc Twitter: glerouge http://guillaumelerouge.com/

I'm +1 for 3), selecting text make a little button to appear near the selection. If it's only a small button I don't see why it would break the normal selection process. Thanks, JV. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[email protected]> wrote:

On 02/01/2010 12:23 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

IMO:

There is an Add button in the Annotation Options Area.

- I go to the content - I SELECT the text - I press:             - OR the Add button             - OR Ctrl + defined key - A popup at the selected text location appears to let me add an annotation.

This way I can select the text without any problem in my usual copy/paste rutine. And when I want to add an annotation I simply click a button or have a key shortcut.

+1, the annotation creation should not break the normal selection process.

...

I don't understand why it is necessarily to have the Ctrl activated when I do my selection or any other versions that appear boxes when I select text.

3) is ok too

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 18:48, Sergiu Dumitriu<[email protected]>  wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 05:39 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Hi Sergiu

On 01/29/2010 06:28 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 03:53 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Short story: Can't use modifier keys since there is no decent cross browser alternative.

New "default" way: 1/ current solution presented at

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

...

with more accessible "add" button (options?) 2/ when annotations are shown simple select triggers the display of annotation dialog 3/ simple select displays a little add icon to be clicked and display the annotation dialog (1/ with button next to selection) 4/ checkbox to enable 2/

WDYT?

I think I like 2 or 4.

I prefer 3. Without a mouse it's easy to break a selection, so here one saved click sometimes means an extra close dialog.

I don't know if I understand exactly, but for me any would go, so I registered your opinion.

It's not a strong opinion, and definitely not a -1 for all the others, just my preference.

...

...

But I wonder how will it be implemented, simple onmousedown/onmouseup handlers?What happens if I select text using the keyboard?

I can look into selection handlers, but if it takes too long, I will do mouseup mousedown since frankly, without being disrespectful to users needs,  I doubt there would be anyone else selecting text with the keyboard.

As long as it will be easy to change the trigger later, feel free to take the easiest approach at the moment.

...

...

What happens if I select text with the mouse then adjust the selection with the keyboard?

That would be simple, I could just use whatever selection in the document when user clicks the "add annotation" button (the form submit that is).

Then this is good enough for my needs.

...

Thanks, Anca

...

...

See below for long version.

Thanks, Anca

On 01/29/2010 04:36 PM, Anca Luca wrote: > Hi devs, > > On 01/16/2010 09:14 PM, Anca Luca wrote: > [snip] >> * adding an annotation could be done by pushing the "add button" then

going in

...

...

>> the content&       selecting text and when the mouse is up, the create window >> appears. In other words, pushing the add button would have the same behaviour as >> holding the CTRL key down. Speaking of which, it seems that CTRL + select is >> reserved in firefox for selecting a table or smth, and I also think it's >> reserved to selecting full words in IEs. Could you investigate on that and try >> to figure out what other modifier could do the job? (if a modifier is required) > > I had a look at this and I have the following results: > * CTRL + select text: > - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for 'select full paragraph' in IE browsers > which means it will select the entire paragraph and will be hard to get the > selection working normally on the text you want to add annotation on (it's > possible to get to a normal select mode but with some pain). I haven't found a > way to prevent that behaviour > - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for selecting entire table cells in Firefox: > cannot select only the text in a cell, by any means. I haven't found a way to > prevent that behaviour > * ALT + select text: > - seems to be fine on all browsers, doesn't interfere with any other reserved > keys (tested on firefox, chrome, IE) under windows, some mac BUT > - on Ubuntu, the ALT+drag combination is a system function for moving windows > around on the screen. There is no way I can 'override' that from the browser. > * SHIFT + select text: > - It's weird on ff and chrome since it's an accessibility shortcut for selecting > text (for those who cannot drag). Namely if you hold shift while mouse down, it > will select all the content from the last click you made.) > > Because of all these, I think it would be hard to rely on some modifier key, so > we need a more accessible alternative. > > By also looking at some other annotations in other applications, I see the > following options: > 1/ the alternative described at: > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal... > which has dissappeared from the last proposal at > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp... > ), except that it should be more accessible since it would now be the default > way of adding annotations. (making it visible on scroll for example) > 2/ while annotations are 'activated' (all or partially displayed on the > document) simply selecting (no modifier) will trigger the annotation dialog > 3/ simply selecting always displays a little icon which can be clicked to open > the create dialog (for example, the way the accelerators icon is added to > selected text on IE8). It would less annoy regular selection, and also enable > annotations on it, but it's an extraclick to add an annotation > 4/ provide a checkbox "annotations mode", which when activated (regardless of > whether other annotations are displayed or not), will trigger annotation add > dialog on simple select. This solution is similar to 1/ > > WDYT? How would you see it? > > Thanks a lot, > Anca

-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hi Guillaume, On 03/17/2010 02:03 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:

Hi guys,

while we're talking about annotations, did we ever come to an agreement about this one?

Right now the way it's implemented is 1/, meaning: - select text - hit a shortcut (meta + M) to get the annotation create dialog - there is an explanation message in the annotations settings panel to help people discover this process.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean <[email protected]>wrote:

...

I'm +1 for 3), selecting text make a little button to appear near the selection. If it's only a small button I don't see why it would break the normal selection process.

I still think that 3) is both the easiest to use and the option that offers best discoverability.

If agreed upon, can it get done before XE 2.3 final?

yes I think we all agreed, more or less formal, that we want that little button next to the selection, but no, I can't commit to fixing it for 2.3 final, since the current method is "good enough" and there are other priorities (missing features vs. improvements). Thanks, Anca

Guillaume

Thanks,

...

JV.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu<[email protected]> wrote:

...

On 02/01/2010 12:23 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

IMO:

There is an Add button in the Annotation Options Area.

- I go to the content - I SELECT the text - I press: - OR the Add button - OR Ctrl + defined key - A popup at the selected text location appears to let me add an annotation.

This way I can select the text without any problem in my usual copy/paste rutine. And when I want to add an annotation I simply click a button or have a key shortcut.

+1, the annotation creation should not break the normal selection process.

...

I don't understand why it is necessarily to have the Ctrl activated when I do my selection or any other versions that appear boxes when I select text.

3) is ok too

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 18:48, Sergiu Dumitriu<[email protected]> wrote:

...

On 01/29/2010 05:39 PM, Anca Luca wrote:

...

Hi Sergiu

On 01/29/2010 06:28 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote: > On 01/29/2010 03:53 PM, Anca Luca wrote: >> Short story: >> Can't use modifier keys since there is no decent cross browser alternative. >> >> New "default" way: >> 1/ current solution presented at >>

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

...

...

>> with more accessible "add" button (options?) >> 2/ when annotations are shown simple select triggers the display of annotation >> dialog >> 3/ simple select displays a little add icon to be clicked and display the >> annotation dialog (1/ with button next to selection) >> 4/ checkbox to enable 2/ >> >> WDYT? >> >> I think I like 2 or 4. > > I prefer 3. Without a mouse it's easy to break a selection, so here one > saved click sometimes means an extra close dialog.

I don't know if I understand exactly, but for me any would go, so I registered your opinion.

It's not a strong opinion, and definitely not a -1 for all the others, just my preference.

...

> > But I wonder how will it be implemented, simple onmousedown/onmouseup > handlers?What happens if I select text using the keyboard?

I can look into selection handlers, but if it takes too long, I will do mouseup mousedown since frankly, without being disrespectful to users needs, I doubt there would be anyone else selecting text with the keyboard.

As long as it will be easy to change the trigger later, feel free to take the easiest approach at the moment.

...

> What happens > if I select text with the mouse then adjust the selection with the keyboard?

That would be simple, I could just use whatever selection in the document when user clicks the "add annotation" button (the form submit that is).

Then this is good enough for my needs.

...

Thanks, Anca

> >> See below for long version. >> >> Thanks, >> Anca >> >> On 01/29/2010 04:36 PM, Anca Luca wrote: >>> Hi devs, >>> >>> On 01/16/2010 09:14 PM, Anca Luca wrote: >>> [snip] >>>> * adding an annotation could be done by pushing the "add button" then going in >>>> the content& selecting text and when the mouse is up, the create window >>>> appears. In other words, pushing the add button would have the same behaviour as >>>> holding the CTRL key down. Speaking of which, it seems that CTRL + select is >>>> reserved in firefox for selecting a table or smth, and I also think it's >>>> reserved to selecting full words in IEs. Could you investigate on that and try >>>> to figure out what other modifier could do the job? (if a modifier is required) >>> >>> I had a look at this and I have the following results: >>> * CTRL + select text: >>> - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for 'select full paragraph' in IE browsers >>> which means it will select the entire paragraph and will be hard to get the >>> selection working normally on the text you want to add annotation on (it's >>> possible to get to a normal select mode but with some pain). I haven't found a >>> way to prevent that behaviour >>> - CTRL + mouse down is a shortcut for selecting entire table cells in Firefox: >>> cannot select only the text in a cell, by any means. I haven't found a way to >>> prevent that behaviour >>> * ALT + select text: >>> - seems to be fine on all browsers, doesn't interfere with any other reserved >>> keys (tested on firefox, chrome, IE) under windows, some mac BUT >>> - on Ubuntu, the ALT+drag combination is a system function for moving windows >>> around on the screen. There is no way I can 'override' that from the browser. >>> * SHIFT + select text: >>> - It's weird on ff and chrome since it's an accessibility shortcut for selecting >>> text (for those who cannot drag). Namely if you hold shift while mouse down, it >>> will select all the content from the last click you made.) >>> >>> Because of all these, I think it would be hard to rely on some modifier key, so >>> we need a more accessible alternative. >>> >>> By also looking at some other annotations in other applications, I see the >>> following options: >>> 1/ the alternative described at: >>>

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

...

...

>>> which has dissappeared from the last proposal at >>>

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProp...

...

...

>>> ), except that it should be more accessible since it would now be the default >>> way of adding annotations. (making it visible on scroll for example) >>> 2/ while annotations are 'activated' (all or partially displayed on the >>> document) simply selecting (no modifier) will trigger the annotation dialog >>> 3/ simply selecting always displays a little icon which can be clicked to open >>> the create dialog (for example, the way the accelerators icon is added to >>> selected text on IE8). It would less annoy regular selection, and also enable >>> annotations on it, but it's an extraclick to add an annotation >>> 4/ provide a checkbox "annotations mode", which when activated (regardless of >>> whether other annotations are displayed or not), will trigger annotation add >>> dialog on simple select. This solution is similar to 1/ >>> >>> WDYT? How would you see it? >>> >>> Thanks a lot, >>> Anca

-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

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On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 17:34, Anca Luca <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

reviving this mail since i'd like your opinions for the annotations filters UI. They're all at

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

and my vote goes 0.6 for C and 0.4 for D.

WDYT?

+1 for D

On 01/15/2010 09:37 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

Hi,

I made some UI suggestions for the annotations.

Overview: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/Annotations/pro... Details: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal

Please let us (me and Anca) know what you think.

Thanks, Caty _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

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-- Thomas Mortagne

Hi Anca, +1 for D lucaa wrote:

Hi all,

reviving this mail since i'd like your opinions for the annotations filters UI. They're all at

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal...

and my vote goes 0.6 for C and 0.4 for D.

WDYT?

On 01/15/2010 09:37 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

Hi,

I made some UI suggestions for the annotations.

Overview: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/Annotations/pro... Details: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal

Please let us (me and Anca) know what you think.

Thanks, Caty _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

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----- Silvia Rusu Tester & Documentation Writer - XWiki http://twitter.com/silviarusu -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/UX-Proposal-Annotation-UI-Improvements-tp4400787p471482... Sent from the XWiki- Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.