[xwiki-devs] [VOTE] Name of the localization macro name
Hi devs, Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}} localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n". We can also decide to maintain both aliases. -- Thomas Mortagne
How about {{translation}} ? l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means. Thanks, Caty On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]
wrote:
How about {{translation}} ?
+1 for {{translation}} if the behaviour is going to be the same as we used to do with $msg.get(...), which is to get a translation from a key. Thanks, Eduard
l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, I agree that {{translation}} sounds more elegant. By the way, how will the macro handle parameters within parameters? I remember it was one of my big issues when adding keys, knowing when and how to bundle 2 messages in one. Guillaume On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
How about {{translation}} ?
+1 for {{translation}} if the behaviour is going to be the same as we used to do with $msg.get(...), which is to get a translation from a key.
Thanks, Eduard
l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi,
I agree that {{translation}} sounds more elegant.
By the way, how will the macro handle parameters within parameters? I remember it was one of my big issues when adding keys, knowing when and how to bundle 2 messages in one.
Not sure I understand what you mean. Would be nice if you could you provide an example of the use case your are describing.
Guillaume
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
How about {{translation}} ?
+1 for {{translation}} if the behaviour is going to be the same as we used to do with $msg.get(...), which is to get a translation from a key.
Thanks, Eduard
l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
If this is effectively the replacement of msg.get(), why not {{msg}} ? {{translate}} would be more explicit, but a bit long IMO for everyday use. Your proposal to have some alias could be an idea to use it with a {{tr}} alias. WDYT ? On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
How about {{translation}} ?
+1 for {{translation}} if the behaviour is going to be the same as we used to do with $msg.get(...), which is to get a translation from a key.
Thanks, Eduard
l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
If this is effectively the replacement of msg.get(), why not {{msg}} ? {{translate}} would be more explicit, but a bit long IMO for everyday use. Your proposal to have some alias could be an idea to use it with a {{tr}} alias. WDYT ?
{{msg}} is ambiguous. Can I send a message? Can I display a message with it? it is about a message? {{tr}} has a html equivalent which is from table-row. I have no problem with the length of {{translation}} / {{translate}}. {{velocity}}, {{attachmentSelector}}, {{messageSender}}, {{documents}}, etc. are long named macros too. I prefer it to be more explicit than ambiguous. Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
How about {{translation}} ?
+1 for {{translation}} if the behaviour is going to be the same as we used to do with $msg.get(...), which is to get a translation from a key.
Thanks, Eduard
l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]
wrote:
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
If this is effectively the replacement of msg.get(), why not {{msg}} ? {{translate}} would be more explicit, but a bit long IMO for everyday use. Your proposal to have some alias could be an idea to use it with a {{tr}} alias. WDYT ?
{{msg}} is ambiguous. Can I send a message? Can I display a message with it? it is about a message?
{{tr}} has a html equivalent which is from table-row.
I have no problem with the length of {{translation}} / {{translate}}. {{velocity}}, {{attachmentSelector}}, {{messageSender}}, {{documents}}, etc. are long named macros too. I prefer it to be more explicit than ambiguous.
I agree with Caty on this one. {{translation}} is both unambiguous and not that long. Guillaume Thanks,
Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
How about {{translation}} ?
+1 for {{translation}} if the behaviour is going to be the same as we used to do with $msg.get(...), which is to get a translation from a key.
Thanks, Eduard
l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for
"l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
If this is effectively the replacement of msg.get(), why not {{msg}} ? {{translate}} would be more explicit, but a bit long IMO for everyday use. Your proposal to have some alias could be an idea to use it with a {{tr}} alias. WDYT ?
{{msg}} is ambiguous. Can I send a message? Can I display a message with it? it is about a message?
{{tr}} has a html equivalent which is from table-row.
I have no problem with the length of {{translation}} / {{translate}}. {{velocity}}, {{attachmentSelector}}, {{messageSender}}, {{documents}}, etc. are long named macros too. I prefer it to be more explicit than ambiguous.
I agree with Caty on this one. {{translation}} is both unambiguous and not that long.
{{translation}} would be adapted if the macro was used to declare a translation, but if the macro do a translation {{translate}} seems more appropriate and explicite IMO.
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
How about {{translation}} ?
+1 for {{translation}} if the behaviour is going to be the same as we used to do with $msg.get(...), which is to get a translation from a key.
Thanks, Eduard
l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for
"l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
If this is effectively the replacement of msg.get(), why not {{msg}} ? {{translate}} would be more explicit, but a bit long IMO for everyday use. Your proposal to have some alias could be an idea to use it with a {{tr}} alias. WDYT ?
{{msg}} is ambiguous. Can I send a message? Can I display a message with it? it is about a message?
{{tr}} has a html equivalent which is from table-row.
I have no problem with the length of {{translation}} / {{translate}}. {{velocity}}, {{attachmentSelector}}, {{messageSender}}, {{documents}}, etc. are long named macros too. I prefer it to be more explicit than ambiguous.
I agree with Caty on this one. {{translation}} is both unambiguous and not that long.
{{translation}} would be adapted if the macro was used to declare a translation, but if the macro do a translation {{translate}} seems more appropriate and explicite IMO.
+1 for {{translate}} (verb) for the same reason. -0 for a shorter alias. I prefer to have a single/standard way of doing things. Thanks, Marius
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
How about {{translation}} ?
+1 for {{translation}} if the behaviour is going to be the same as we used to do with $msg.get(...), which is to get a translation from a key.
Thanks, Eduard
l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
> Hi devs, > > Quick vote for the macro name: > * {{l10n}} > * {{locallization}} > > localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for
"l10n".
> > We can also decide to maintain both aliases. > > -- > Thomas Mortagne > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]
wrote:
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
If this is effectively the replacement of msg.get(), why not {{msg}} ? {{translate}} would be more explicit, but a bit long IMO for everyday use. Your proposal to have some alias could be an idea to use it with a {{tr}} alias. WDYT ?
{{msg}} is ambiguous. Can I send a message? Can I display a message with it? it is about a message?
{{tr}} has a html equivalent which is from table-row.
I have no problem with the length of {{translation}} / {{translate}}. {{velocity}}, {{attachmentSelector}}, {{messageSender}}, {{documents}}, etc. are long named macros too. I prefer it to be more explicit than ambiguous.
Being explicit is great, but I look at how often this macro had to be used, and I feel that it would became too verbose. This is why I (and probably Thomas) like to have at least a short alias for this one. This is not like other macro, which do not get used so often IMO. Sure {{tr}} is a table row in html, this is also the name of a linux command which means translate. {{l10n}} is not what I would prefer for a short name, due to the mixup between letter and number. {{msg}} is probably more clear for existing user than newcomers, but it would be just an alias. So for now {{tr}} keep my preference for an alias of a larger macro named {{translate}}.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]
wrote:
How about {{translation}} ?
+1 for {{translation}} if the behaviour is going to be the same as we used to do with $msg.get(...), which is to get a translation from a key.
Thanks, Eduard
l10n is very cryptic and only developers will know what it means.
Thanks, Caty
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for
"l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
Localization is a process, it involves the whole product, so it's not appropriate to use it on just one string. I think that translation or translate is the right term. And I think that a noun is better, for consistency. We're describing what's inside the macro (or what comes out of it), not what the macro does: messageSender, column, chart, livetable... -1 for abbreviations, even though this one will be used more often than the other macros, it's always a good idea to stay away from very short names. We wouldn't use abbreviations in our Java API method names, would we? So, +1 for {{translation}}. -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
Additionally, the $msg tool will have the same behavior as the new {{translation}} macro, right? Meaning that the existing velocity code will continue to use the $msg tool and the new translation macro will only be used more in pure wiki syntax where users will not be forced to use velocity to have translated keys. So for the rest of the heavy code where translations are used a lot, $msg is still short as before. Is this correct? Thanks, Eduard On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 8:46 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
Localization is a process, it involves the whole product, so it's not appropriate to use it on just one string.
I think that translation or translate is the right term.
And I think that a noun is better, for consistency. We're describing what's inside the macro (or what comes out of it), not what the macro does: messageSender, column, chart, livetable...
-1 for abbreviations, even though this one will be used more often than the other macros, it's always a good idea to stay away from very short names. We wouldn't use abbreviations in our Java API method names, would we?
So, +1 for {{translation}}. -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 11/03/2012 08:40 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
Additionally, the $msg tool will have the same behavior as the new {{translation}} macro, right? Meaning that the existing velocity code will continue to use the $msg tool and the new translation macro will only be used more in pure wiki syntax where users will not be forced to use velocity to have translated keys. So for the rest of the heavy code where translations are used a lot, $msg is still short as before.
Is this correct?
Not quite, $msg is supposed to be replaced by $services.localization. But $msg will still be available for backwards compatibility for a while.
Thanks, Eduard
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 8:46 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi devs,
Quick vote for the macro name: * {{l10n}} * {{locallization}}
localization is a bit too long for a macro so I would go for "l10n".
We can also decide to maintain both aliases.
Localization is a process, it involves the whole product, so it's not appropriate to use it on just one string.
I think that translation or translate is the right term.
And I think that a noun is better, for consistency. We're describing what's inside the macro (or what comes out of it), not what the macro does: messageSender, column, chart, livetable...
-1 for abbreviations, even though this one will be used more often than the other macros, it's always a good idea to stay away from very short names. We wouldn't use abbreviations in our Java API method names, would we?
So, +1 for {{translation}}.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
participants (7)
-
Denis Gervalle -
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Eduard Moraru -
Guillaume Lerouge -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne