Re: [xwiki-devs] [xwiki-users] HTML
On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Paul Libbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:
Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
Maybe http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/HTML+Macro can help. Say Marius,
When I read this, it feels like this is something that users need to install. But this is pre-installed by default or?
I tend to believe that we do not display this properly. Agree?
There's an information pane on the right saying: "Bundled With: XWiki Enterprise, XWiki Enterprise Manager" And if you try to search for it using Administration > Add Extensions you'll see that it's already installed. What improvement do you have in mind? Thanks, Marius I'd raise it on the mailing-list.
Paul
Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
There's an information pane on the right saying: "Bundled With: XWiki Enterprise, XWiki Enterprise Manager" Obviously I missed it. It's also smaller than the installation instructions... So that these take precedence and let you believe it needs to be installed. And if you try to search for it using Administration > Add Extensions you'll see that it's already installed. What improvement do you have in mind? My reaction came while reading the URL actually.
Would it make sense to have a "macros.xwiki.org" or "bundled.xwiki.org" or "included.xwiki.org" (or xcs.xwiki.org) ? It would be just a copy, vhost or proxy but would fold away the installation information; search there would default to bundled ones. Paul
On 18 May 2016, at 13:34, Paul Libbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:
Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
There's an information pane on the right saying: "Bundled With: XWiki Enterprise, XWiki Enterprise Manager" Obviously I missed it. It's also smaller than the installation instructions... So that these take precedence and let you believe it needs to be installed.
It would make sense to me to modify a bit the installation instruction section to mention the list of Flavors in which an extension is bundled in by default. Feel free to make a proposal and a PR (it needs to go in the Repository App) Paul if you’re interested! At least raising a minor jira improvement.
And if you try to search for it using Administration > Add Extensions you'll see that it's already installed. What improvement do you have in mind? My reaction came while reading the URL actually.
Would it make sense to have a "macros.xwiki.org" or "bundled.xwiki.org" or "included.xwiki.org" (or xcs.xwiki.org) ? It would be just a copy, vhost or proxy but would fold away the installation information; search there would default to bundled ones.
<lol> No, that’s way too complex IMO, and raises so many other questions (installation.xwiki.org, howdoieditapage.xwiki.org, howtolickwithmymouse.xwiki.org) not mentioning the one of knowing that this subwiki exists… maybe a findwhichsubwikiexist.xwiki.org? :) </lol> Thanks -Vincent
Paul
Vincent, as long as there is no possibility to "see through" that an extension is probably installed on my wiki, the problem will remain. At least as long as there's a single flavour out there, the "default" nature of an extension being installed needs to be made more visible I feel. This I can open as an issue if you wish but I think we are missing a way to display this. Paul Vincent Massol wrote:
Would it make sense to have a "macros.xwiki.org" or "bundled.xwiki.org"
or "included.xwiki.org" (or xcs.xwiki.org) ? It would be just a copy, vhost or proxy but would fold away the installation information; search there would default to bundled ones.
<lol> No, that’s way too complex IMO, and raises so many other questions (installation.xwiki.org, howdoieditapage.xwiki.org, howtolickwithmymouse.xwiki.org) not mentioning the one of knowing that this subwiki exists… maybe a findwhichsubwikiexist.xwiki.org? :) </lol>
On 18 May 2016, at 14:39, Paul Libbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:
Vincent,
as long as there is no possibility to "see through" that an extension is probably installed on my wiki, the problem will remain.
WDYM by “see through”? If you go to the admin you see installed extensions already.
At least as long as there's a single flavour out there, the "default" nature of an extension being installed needs to be made more visible I feel. This I can open as an issue if you wish but I think we are missing a way to display this.
I don’t understand your point with the “default” flavor. Showing bundled extensions surely becomes even more important as the number of flavors increase. Re “visibility", I’ve already suggested an idea in my reply. “missing a way to display this”: 1) that’s not true we already have a way, you just missed it and 2) that’s part of the proposal I made in my previous reply to you (to improve the visibility) Thanks -Vincent
Paul
Vincent Massol wrote:
Would it make sense to have a "macros.xwiki.org" or "bundled.xwiki.org"
or "included.xwiki.org" (or xcs.xwiki.org) ? It would be just a copy, vhost or proxy but would fold away the installation information; search there would default to bundled ones.
<lol> No, that’s way too complex IMO, and raises so many other questions (installation.xwiki.org, howdoieditapage.xwiki.org, howtolickwithmymouse.xwiki.org) not mentioning the one of knowing that this subwiki exists… maybe a findwhichsubwikiexist.xwiki.org? :) </lol>
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Vincent Massol wrote:
as long as there is no possibility to "see through" that an extension is
probably installed on my wiki, the problem will remain.
WDYM by “see through”? If you go to the admin you see installed extensions already. Probably five clicks thus far....
At least as long as there's a single flavour out there, the "default" nature of an extension being installed needs to be made more visible I feel. This I can open as an issue if you wish but I think we are missing a way to display this.
I don’t understand your point with the “default” flavor. Showing bundled extensions surely becomes even more important as the number of flavors increase. Does it? Isn't the default xwiki-entreprise still the most common one? How would you take in account the other flavours then? By listing them? Re “visibility", I’ve already suggested an idea in my reply. Yes, indeed, listing the flavours. I've opend this one: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-13430 not all extensions should be perceived as installable But I feel that something more could be done. Maybe a way to check if an extension is installed in one's wiki (input your wiki name there and keep it in a cookie, click a link or even produce an iframe) What do others feel?
Also, the fact that it's called "extensions.xwiki.org" remains a hint towards a wiki to be extended. Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
And if you try to search for it using Administration > Add Extensions you'll see that it's already installed. Does this not sound like... I'll add an extension???? I would like to manage extensions.
Paul
On 18 May 2016, at 14:59, Paul Libbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
as long as there is no possibility to "see through" that an extension is
probably installed on my wiki, the problem will remain.
WDYM by “see through”? If you go to the admin you see installed extensions already. Probably five clicks thus far....
At least as long as there's a single flavour out there, the "default" nature of an extension being installed needs to be made more visible I feel. This I can open as an issue if you wish but I think we are missing a way to display this.
I don’t understand your point with the “default” flavor. Showing bundled extensions surely becomes even more important as the number of flavors increase. Does it? Isn't the default xwiki-entreprise still the most common one? How would you take in account the other flavours then? By listing them?
Yes, an xproperty in the Repository app would allow defining the flavors in which an extension is bundled in (i.e. generalize what we already have for XE). BTW right now I think this is just an extension on e.x.o and not part of the Repository app. We’ll need to decide what we want to do in the future.
Re “visibility", I’ve already suggested an idea in my reply. Yes, indeed, listing the flavours. I've opend this one: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-13430 not all extensions should be perceived as installable But I feel that something more could be done. Maybe a way to check if an extension is installed in one's wiki (input your wiki name there and keep it in a cookie, click a link or even produce an iframe) What do others feel?
Sure. But that’s why we have the EM in the wiki: to know what’s installed… Going to xwiki.org to find what is installed in one’s wiki is an extra step… Much easier to check directly from your wiki. Especially if your goal is to install something, you’d install from your wiki anyway!
Also, the fact that it's called "extensions.xwiki.org" remains a hint towards a wiki to be extended.
Not much we can do here IMO. Everything is an extension. The end goal/game is to mandate a single extension (and its deps): the extension manager. All the rest can then be installed from it. The near future will offer flavors and they can be anything.
Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
And if you try to search for it using Administration > Add Extensions you'll see that it's already installed. Does this not sound like... I'll add an extension???? I would like to manage extensions.
Have you tried xwiki’s admin UI? :) I’m asking because if you do you’ll find a nice “Installed Extensions” menu entry there. And if you try to add the HTML Macro using the ‘Add Extension” it should also tell it’s already installed so I don’t really see the problem you’re having… Why do you care to see whether the extension is installed or not in your wiki in the end? If you think it’s not, then you’ll obviously try to install it and EM will show it’s already installed… No problem... Thanks -Vincent
Paul
Of course, this topic has heavily diverged... Related to e.x.o., right now we have a "dependencies" section where we display all the ("outgoing") extensions/modules on which the current extension depends. To address the "bundled with" discussion, we could create a new "used by" section where we would list all the ("incoming") extensions that depend on the current one. This will also include flavors (even the default flavor - for which we don`t have an e.x.o. page AFAIK but IMO we should) and would also ensure that the value is in synch since it is computed automatically. WDYT? Thanks, Eduard On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On 18 May 2016, at 14:59, Paul Libbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
as long as there is no possibility to "see through" that an extension is
probably installed on my wiki, the problem will remain.
WDYM by “see through”? If you go to the admin you see installed extensions already. Probably five clicks thus far....
At least as long as there's a single flavour out there, the "default" nature of an extension being installed needs to be made more visible I feel. This I can open as an issue if you wish but I think we are missing a way to display this.
I don’t understand your point with the “default” flavor. Showing bundled extensions surely becomes even more important as the number of flavors increase. Does it? Isn't the default xwiki-entreprise still the most common one? How would you take in account the other flavours then? By listing them?
Yes, an xproperty in the Repository app would allow defining the flavors in which an extension is bundled in (i.e. generalize what we already have for XE). BTW right now I think this is just an extension on e.x.o and not part of the Repository app. We’ll need to decide what we want to do in the future.
Re “visibility", I’ve already suggested an idea in my reply. Yes, indeed, listing the flavours. I've opend this one: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-13430 not all extensions should be perceived as installable But I feel that something more could be done. Maybe a way to check if an extension is installed in one's wiki (input your wiki name there and keep it in a cookie, click a link or even produce an iframe) What do others feel?
Sure. But that’s why we have the EM in the wiki: to know what’s installed… Going to xwiki.org to find what is installed in one’s wiki is an extra step… Much easier to check directly from your wiki. Especially if your goal is to install something, you’d install from your wiki anyway!
Also, the fact that it's called "extensions.xwiki.org" remains a hint towards a wiki to be extended.
Not much we can do here IMO. Everything is an extension. The end goal/game is to mandate a single extension (and its deps): the extension manager. All the rest can then be installed from it. The near future will offer flavors and they can be anything.
Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
And if you try to search for it using Administration > Add Extensions you'll see that it's already installed. Does this not sound like... I'll add an extension???? I would like to manage extensions.
Have you tried xwiki’s admin UI? :) I’m asking because if you do you’ll find a nice “Installed Extensions” menu entry there. And if you try to add the HTML Macro using the ‘Add Extension” it should also tell it’s already installed so I don’t really see the problem you’re having…
Why do you care to see whether the extension is installed or not in your wiki in the end? If you think it’s not, then you’ll obviously try to install it and EM will show it’s already installed… No problem...
Thanks -Vincent
Paul
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participants (4)
-
Eduard Moraru -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Paul Libbrecht -
Vincent Massol