[xwiki-devs] [Proposal] [XWiki.org] Download page layout
Hi, This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found at http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download <http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationStandalone> The proposal is here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWikiOrgDownload2Layout <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWikiOrgInstallationLocal> The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages (version, type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal. Let me know what you think. Thanks, Caty
Fixed the links On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found at http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download <http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download>
The proposal is here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/ <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWikiOrgDownload2Layout> bin/view/Proposal/ <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWikiOrgDownload2Layout> XWikiOrgDownload2Layout <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWikiOrgDownload2Layout>
The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages (version, type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Caty
Hi Caty, On 17 Feb 2016 at 17:44:56, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Fixed the links
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found at http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download
The proposal is here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/
bin/view/Proposal/
XWikiOrgDownload2Layout
The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages (version, type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal.
Let me know what you think.
I really like the new Download page (LTS, Stable, Dev). Much nicer and cleaner than the current version! :) However I’m not sure about the second download page with the Local, Server, Debian boxes. There are several issues for me: * The Local packagings can be used on a server * The server packagings can be used locally * The Debian packaging can be used both locally and on a server * Server is not a good differentiator since XWiki is a Server app even if you install it locally ;) * BTW it’s misising the other tutorials and other packagings (the yaourt one for example) * And even more important it’s also missing Cloud solutions. I’d really like if we could list the various cloud solutions offered by companies participating to the xwiki development (and possibly list myxwiki.org too but if we list it, we need to put visible disclaimer since it’s a test farm with no warranties and for non-business/personal projects only). So maybe we shouldn’t discriminate between Local, Server, Debian but maybe instead between “On-Premises” and “Cloud”, WDYT? Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Caty
Hi Vincent, On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:19 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Caty,
On 17 Feb 2016 at 17:44:56, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Fixed the links
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found at http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download
The proposal is here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/
bin/view/Proposal/
XWikiOrgDownload2Layout
The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages (version, type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal.
Let me know what you think.
I really like the new Download page (LTS, Stable, Dev). Much nicer and cleaner than the current version! :)
However I’m not sure about the second download page with the Local, Server, Debian boxes. There are several issues for me: * The Local packagings can be used on a server * The server packagings can be used locally * The Debian packaging can be used both locally and on a server
So currently the documentation pages use terms like "Standalone distribution" and "WAR package". For me these naming are not user-friendly and I might not know what the acronym stands for or what standalone means. That's why I suggested Local and Server, since they are more simplistic but yes maybe they are not truly correct. Maybe we can iterate more on the naming but we need an improvement here since we want to encourage "local" testing even for not so technical users/administrators.
* Server is not a good differentiator since XWiki is a Server app even if you install it locally ;) * BTW it’s misising the other tutorials and other packagings (the yaourt one for example)
To be honest I didn't know what you were referring to until I found http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Installation#HUsingyaour... When I did the re-design I took the information from the Download page and the "yaourt" one is missing. In order to fix this we could modify the third column called now "Debian Installation" into a other operating systems ways of installing ( or another name ) and list there links towards the Debian and Arch Linux install documentation.
* And even more important it’s also missing Cloud solutions. I’d really like if we could list the various cloud solutions offered by companies participating to the xwiki development (and possibly list myxwiki.org too but if we list it, we need to put visible disclaimer since it’s a test farm with no warranties and for non-business/personal projects only).
IMO this should be a total different page, let's call it "Test Drive XWiki" or "Try XWiki" or "Evaluate XWiki" that could showcase Playground, MyXWiki and other Cloud solutions, but this should be part of a different proposal than the Download page (which lists versions and install methods). Currently I didn't tackled this proposal yet.
So maybe we shouldn’t discriminate between Local, Server, Debian but maybe instead between “On-Premises” and “Cloud”, WDYT?
I'm not sure what "On Premises" means although I know it's an used term, but I don't find it very clear and not sure if it describes well the zip, war, etc. options. The problem is that we list the "Local, Server, Debian" install options after you selected the version you want to download. So I find it a bit odd for an user to be convinced that he wants to download XWiki, select his version and then be presented with the Cloud Solutions. Cloud solutions should be part of an evaluation step, before and independent of the download step. Thanks, Caty
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Caty
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 19 Feb 2016 at 15:20:09, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Caty,
On 17 Feb 2016 at 17:44:56, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Fixed the links
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found at http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download
The proposal is here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/
bin/view/Proposal/
XWikiOrgDownload2Layout
The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages (version, type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal.
Let me know what you think.
I really like the new Download page (LTS, Stable, Dev). Much nicer and cleaner than the current version! :)
However I’m not sure about the second download page with the Local, Server, Debian boxes. There are several issues for me: * The Local packagings can be used on a server * The server packagings can be used locally * The Debian packaging can be used both locally and on a server
So currently the documentation pages use terms like "Standalone distribution" and "WAR package". For me these naming are not user-friendly and I might not know what the acronym stands for or what standalone means. That's why I suggested Local and Server, since they are more simplistic but yes maybe they are not truly correct. Maybe we can iterate more on the naming but we need an improvement here since we want to encourage "local" testing even for not so technical users/administrators.
I understand what you wanted but indeed I find the new terms even more confusing :) For me we should think in term of “Using XWiki”. To use XWiki the user has 2 choices: A) Download and install it locally (wherever he’s installing the download from, could be a laptop, could be a server machine, etc). This is usually referred as “on premises” by comparison to using it as a service (cloud, saas, etc). B) Use it as a service. For A) the options we have are: * Demo packagings: those are the options from http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationStandalone. They include a pre-installed HSQLDB Database and a Jetty container Specifically the following installers/packagings: ** the EXE packaging, ** the ZIP packaging, ** the JAR packaging * Production-level packagings: ** Debian packaging (all in one installation that includes MySQL and Tomcat) ** The WAR (the user needs to install both a Servlet Container and a Database and deploy the WAR in the Servlet Container) * Other packagings/setup that are not supported by the XWiki Core Dev Team: ** tutorials ** yaourt packaging For B) the options we have are: * Demo on playground.xwiki.org * myxwiki.org for non-profit organizations and individuals. Free but no warranties in term of uptime or support. Used as a real-world test platform by the XWiki Core Dev Team to test the latest versions of XWiki. * Cloud and Hosting offers from companies helping develop the XWiki open source project (the companies listed at http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Support#HProfessionalSupport and defined by the xwiki.org governance at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Governance): ** From XWiki SAS: XCS (http://info.xwiki.com/xcs-demo-request.html) or dedicated hosting (http://www.xwiki.com/en/services/hosting) ** From Softec or EsPresto AG: link to their web sites It would be nice that a user wants to use XWiki he lands on a page showing the 2 options: install on premises and hosting/cloud solutions. Then he can drill down and if he wants to install on premises, be able to select from the various download options. WDYT? Thanks -Vincent
* Server is not a good differentiator since XWiki is a Server app even if you install it locally ;) * BTW it’s misising the other tutorials and other packagings (the yaourt one for example)
To be honest I didn't know what you were referring to until I found http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Installation#HUsingyaour... When I did the re-design I took the information from the Download page and the "yaourt" one is missing. In order to fix this we could modify the third column called now "Debian Installation" into a other operating systems ways of installing ( or another name ) and list there links towards the Debian and Arch Linux install documentation.
* And even more important it’s also missing Cloud solutions. I’d really like if we could list the various cloud solutions offered by companies participating to the xwiki development (and possibly list myxwiki.org too but if we list it, we need to put visible disclaimer since it’s a test farm with no warranties and for non-business/personal projects only).
IMO this should be a total different page, let's call it "Test Drive XWiki" or "Try XWiki" or "Evaluate XWiki" that could showcase Playground, MyXWiki and other Cloud solutions, but this should be part of a different proposal than the Download page (which lists versions and install methods). Currently I didn't tackled this proposal yet.
So maybe we shouldn’t discriminate between Local, Server, Debian but maybe instead between “On-Premises” and “Cloud”, WDYT?
I'm not sure what "On Premises" means although I know it's an used term, but I don't find it very clear and not sure if it describes well the zip, war, etc. options.
The problem is that we list the "Local, Server, Debian" install options after you selected the version you want to download. So I find it a bit odd for an user to be convinced that he wants to download XWiki, select his version and then be presented with the Cloud Solutions. Cloud solutions should be part of an evaluation step, before and independent of the download step.
Thanks, Caty
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Caty
On 22 Feb 2016 at 15:27:04, [email protected] ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On 19 Feb 2016 at 15:20:09, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Caty,
On 17 Feb 2016 at 17:44:56, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Fixed the links
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found at http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download
The proposal is here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/
bin/view/Proposal/
XWikiOrgDownload2Layout
The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages (version, type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal.
Let me know what you think.
I really like the new Download page (LTS, Stable, Dev). Much nicer and cleaner than the current version! :)
However I’m not sure about the second download page with the Local, Server, Debian boxes. There are several issues for me: * The Local packagings can be used on a server * The server packagings can be used locally * The Debian packaging can be used both locally and on a server
So currently the documentation pages use terms like "Standalone distribution" and "WAR package". For me these naming are not user-friendly and I might not know what the acronym stands for or what standalone means. That's why I suggested Local and Server, since they are more simplistic but yes maybe they are not truly correct. Maybe we can iterate more on the naming but we need an improvement here since we want to encourage "local" testing even for not so technical users/administrators.
I understand what you wanted but indeed I find the new terms even more confusing :)
For me we should think in term of “Using XWiki”. To use XWiki the user has 2 choices:
A) Download and install it locally (wherever he’s installing the download from, could be a laptop, could be a server machine, etc). This is usually referred as “on premises” by comparison to using it as a service (cloud, saas, etc).
B) Use it as a service.
For A) the options we have are: * Demo packagings: those are the options from http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationStandalone. They include a pre-installed HSQLDB Database and a Jetty container Specifically the following installers/packagings: ** the EXE packaging, ** the ZIP packaging, ** the JAR packaging
FWIW Denis suggested the name “Personal packagings”. So we have 2 options so far: - Demo packagings (clearly shows they not for production) - Personal packagings (hints that they are for personal use only, ie single user wiki) I think I prefer Demo. WDYT? Thanks -Vincent
* Production-level packagings: ** Debian packaging (all in one installation that includes MySQL and Tomcat) ** The WAR (the user needs to install both a Servlet Container and a Database and deploy the WAR in the Servlet Container) * Other packagings/setup that are not supported by the XWiki Core Dev Team: ** tutorials ** yaourt packaging
For B) the options we have are: * Demo on playground.xwiki.org(http://playground.xwiki.org) * myxwiki.org(http://myxwiki.org) for non-profit organizations and individuals. Free but no warranties in term of uptime or support. Used as a real-world test platform by the XWiki Core Dev Team to test the latest versions of XWiki. * Cloud and Hosting offers from companies helping develop the XWiki open source project (the companies listed at http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Support#HProfessionalSupport and defined by the xwiki.org(http://xwiki.org) governance at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Governance): ** From XWiki SAS: XCS (http://info.xwiki.com/xcs-demo-request.html) or dedicated hosting (http://www.xwiki.com/en/services/hosting) ** From Softec or EsPresto AG: link to their web sites
It would be nice that a user wants to use XWiki he lands on a page showing the 2 options: install on premises and hosting/cloud solutions. Then he can drill down and if he wants to install on premises, be able to select from the various download options.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
* Server is not a good differentiator since XWiki is a Server app even if you install it locally ;) * BTW it’s misising the other tutorials and other packagings (the yaourt one for example)
To be honest I didn't know what you were referring to until I found http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Installation#HUsingyaour... When I did the re-design I took the information from the Download page and the "yaourt" one is missing. In order to fix this we could modify the third column called now "Debian Installation" into a other operating systems ways of installing ( or another name ) and list there links towards the Debian and Arch Linux install documentation.
* And even more important it’s also missing Cloud solutions. I’d really like if we could list the various cloud solutions offered by companies participating to the xwiki development (and possibly list myxwiki.org too but if we list it, we need to put visible disclaimer since it’s a test farm with no warranties and for non-business/personal projects only).
IMO this should be a total different page, let's call it "Test Drive XWiki" or "Try XWiki" or "Evaluate XWiki" that could showcase Playground, MyXWiki and other Cloud solutions, but this should be part of a different proposal than the Download page (which lists versions and install methods). Currently I didn't tackled this proposal yet.
So maybe we shouldn’t discriminate between Local, Server, Debian but maybe instead between “On-Premises” and “Cloud”, WDYT?
I'm not sure what "On Premises" means although I know it's an used term, but I don't find it very clear and not sure if it describes well the zip, war, etc. options.
The problem is that we list the "Local, Server, Debian" install options after you selected the version you want to download. So I find it a bit odd for an user to be convinced that he wants to download XWiki, select his version and then be presented with the Cloud Solutions. Cloud solutions should be part of an evaluation step, before and independent of the download step.
Thanks, Caty
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Caty
I prefer "Demo" Thanks, Caty On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:22 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 22 Feb 2016 at 15:27:04, [email protected] ([email protected](mailto: [email protected])) wrote:
On 19 Feb 2016 at 15:20:09, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ([email protected]
(mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Caty,
On 17 Feb 2016 at 17:44:56, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
(mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Fixed the links
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found at http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download
The proposal is here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/
bin/view/Proposal/
XWikiOrgDownload2Layout
The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages (version, type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal.
Let me know what you think.
I really like the new Download page (LTS, Stable, Dev). Much nicer and cleaner than the current version! :)
However I’m not sure about the second download page with the Local, Server, Debian boxes. There are several issues for me: * The Local packagings can be used on a server * The server packagings can be used locally * The Debian packaging can be used both locally and on a server
So currently the documentation pages use terms like "Standalone distribution" and "WAR package". For me these naming are not user-friendly and I might not know what the acronym stands for or what standalone means. That's why I suggested Local and Server, since they are more simplistic but yes maybe they are not truly correct. Maybe we can iterate more on the naming but we need an improvement here since we want to encourage "local" testing even for not so technical users/administrators.
I understand what you wanted but indeed I find the new terms even more confusing :)
For me we should think in term of “Using XWiki”. To use XWiki the user has 2 choices:
A) Download and install it locally (wherever he’s installing the download from, could be a laptop, could be a server machine, etc). This is usually referred as “on premises” by comparison to using it as a service (cloud, saas, etc).
B) Use it as a service.
For A) the options we have are: * Demo packagings: those are the options from http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationStandalone. They include a pre-installed HSQLDB Database and a Jetty container Specifically the following installers/packagings: ** the EXE packaging, ** the ZIP packaging, ** the JAR packaging
FWIW Denis suggested the name “Personal packagings”. So we have 2 options so far: - Demo packagings (clearly shows they not for production) - Personal packagings (hints that they are for personal use only, ie single user wiki)
I think I prefer Demo. WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
* Production-level packagings: ** Debian packaging (all in one installation that includes MySQL and Tomcat) ** The WAR (the user needs to install both a Servlet Container and a Database and deploy the WAR in the Servlet Container) * Other packagings/setup that are not supported by the XWiki Core Dev Team: ** tutorials ** yaourt packaging
For B) the options we have are: * Demo on playground.xwiki.org(http://playground.xwiki.org) * myxwiki.org(http://myxwiki.org) for non-profit organizations and individuals. Free but no warranties in term of uptime or support. Used as a real-world test platform by the XWiki Core Dev Team to test the latest versions of XWiki. * Cloud and Hosting offers from companies helping develop the XWiki open source project (the companies listed at http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Support#HProfessionalSupport and defined by the xwiki.org(http://xwiki.org) governance at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Governance): ** From XWiki SAS: XCS (http://info.xwiki.com/xcs-demo-request.html) or dedicated hosting (http://www.xwiki.com/en/services/hosting) ** From Softec or EsPresto AG: link to their web sites
It would be nice that a user wants to use XWiki he lands on a page showing the 2 options: install on premises and hosting/cloud solutions. Then he can drill down and if he wants to install on premises, be able to select from the various download options.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
* Server is not a good differentiator since XWiki is a Server app even if you install it locally ;) * BTW it’s misising the other tutorials and other packagings (the yaourt one for example)
To be honest I didn't know what you were referring to until I found
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Installation#HUsingyaour...
When I did the re-design I took the information from the Download page and the "yaourt" one is missing. In order to fix this we could modify the third column called now "Debian Installation" into a other operating systems ways of installing ( or another name ) and list there links towards the Debian and Arch Linux install documentation.
* And even more important it’s also missing Cloud solutions. I’d really like if we could list the various cloud solutions offered by companies participating to the xwiki development (and possibly list myxwiki.org too but if we list it, we need to put visible disclaimer since it’s a test farm with no warranties and for non-business/personal projects only).
IMO this should be a total different page, let's call it "Test Drive XWiki" or "Try XWiki" or "Evaluate XWiki" that could showcase Playground, MyXWiki and other Cloud solutions, but this should be part of a different proposal than the Download page (which lists versions and install methods). Currently I didn't tackled this proposal yet.
So maybe we shouldn’t discriminate between Local, Server, Debian but
maybe
instead between “On-Premises” and “Cloud”, WDYT?
I'm not sure what "On Premises" means although I know it's an used term, but I don't find it very clear and not sure if it describes well the zip, war, etc. options.
The problem is that we list the "Local, Server, Debian" install options after you selected the version you want to download. So I find it a bit odd for an user to be convinced that he wants to download XWiki, select his version and then be presented with the Cloud Solutions. Cloud solutions should be part of an evaluation step, before and independent of the download step.
Thanks, Caty
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Caty
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Iteration 2: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWikiOrgDownload2Layout#HIte... Changes: - Separated in 'Demo Installation' and 'Production Installation' - Listing separated 'Installation notes' and 'Download' button for each option Regarding 'Demo'/'Production' terms, Eduard mentioned also: - 'Small Installation' - 'Larger Production Installation' - 'Ready to use bundle' Let me know what you think. Thanks, Caty On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
I prefer "Demo"
Thanks, Caty
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:22 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 22 Feb 2016 at 15:27:04, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On 19 Feb 2016 at 15:20:09, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
[email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Caty,
On 17 Feb 2016 at 17:44:56, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
(mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Fixed the links
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
> Hi, > > This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found at > http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download > > > The proposal is here: > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/ > > bin/view/Proposal/ > > XWikiOrgDownload2Layout > > > The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages (version, > type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal. > > Let me know what you think.
I really like the new Download page (LTS, Stable, Dev). Much nicer and cleaner than the current version! :)
However I’m not sure about the second download page with the Local, Server, Debian boxes. There are several issues for me: * The Local packagings can be used on a server * The server packagings can be used locally * The Debian packaging can be used both locally and on a server
So currently the documentation pages use terms like "Standalone distribution" and "WAR package". For me these naming are not user-friendly and I might not know what the acronym stands for or what standalone means. That's why I suggested Local and Server, since they are more simplistic but yes maybe they are not truly correct. Maybe we can iterate more on the naming but we need an improvement here since we want to encourage "local" testing even for not so technical users/administrators.
I understand what you wanted but indeed I find the new terms even more confusing :)
For me we should think in term of “Using XWiki”. To use XWiki the user has 2 choices:
A) Download and install it locally (wherever he’s installing the download from, could be a laptop, could be a server machine, etc). This is usually referred as “on premises” by comparison to using it as a service (cloud, saas, etc).
B) Use it as a service.
For A) the options we have are: * Demo packagings: those are the options from http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationStandalone. They include a pre-installed HSQLDB Database and a Jetty container Specifically the following installers/packagings: ** the EXE packaging, ** the ZIP packaging, ** the JAR packaging
FWIW Denis suggested the name “Personal packagings”. So we have 2 options so far: - Demo packagings (clearly shows they not for production) - Personal packagings (hints that they are for personal use only, ie single user wiki)
I think I prefer Demo. WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
* Production-level packagings: ** Debian packaging (all in one installation that includes MySQL and Tomcat) ** The WAR (the user needs to install both a Servlet Container and a Database and deploy the WAR in the Servlet Container) * Other packagings/setup that are not supported by the XWiki Core Dev Team: ** tutorials ** yaourt packaging
For B) the options we have are: * Demo on playground.xwiki.org(http://playground.xwiki.org) * myxwiki.org(http://myxwiki.org) for non-profit organizations and individuals. Free but no warranties in term of uptime or support. Used as a real-world test platform by the XWiki Core Dev Team to test the latest versions of XWiki. * Cloud and Hosting offers from companies helping develop the XWiki open source project (the companies listed at http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Support#HProfessionalSupport and defined by the xwiki.org(http://xwiki.org) governance at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Governance): ** From XWiki SAS: XCS (http://info.xwiki.com/xcs-demo-request.html) or dedicated hosting (http://www.xwiki.com/en/services/hosting) ** From Softec or EsPresto AG: link to their web sites
It would be nice that a user wants to use XWiki he lands on a page showing the 2 options: install on premises and hosting/cloud solutions. Then he can drill down and if he wants to install on premises, be able to select from the various download options.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
* Server is not a good differentiator since XWiki is a Server app even if you install it locally ;) * BTW it’s misising the other tutorials and other packagings (the yaourt one for example)
To be honest I didn't know what you were referring to until I found
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Installation#HUsingyaour...
When I did the re-design I took the information from the Download page and the "yaourt" one is missing. In order to fix this we could modify the third column called now "Debian Installation" into a other operating systems ways of installing ( or another name ) and list there links towards the Debian and Arch Linux install documentation.
* And even more important it’s also missing Cloud solutions. I’d really like if we could list the various cloud solutions offered by companies participating to the xwiki development (and possibly list myxwiki.org too but if we list it, we need to put visible disclaimer since it’s a test farm with no warranties and for non-business/personal projects only).
IMO this should be a total different page, let's call it "Test Drive XWiki" or "Try XWiki" or "Evaluate XWiki" that could showcase Playground, MyXWiki and other Cloud solutions, but this should be part of a different proposal than the Download page (which lists versions and install methods). Currently I didn't tackled this proposal yet.
So maybe we shouldn’t discriminate between Local, Server, Debian
but maybe
instead between “On-Premises” and “Cloud”, WDYT?
I'm not sure what "On Premises" means although I know it's an used term, but I don't find it very clear and not sure if it describes well the zip, war, etc. options.
The problem is that we list the "Local, Server, Debian" install options after you selected the version you want to download. So I find it a bit odd for an user to be convinced that he wants to download XWiki, select his version and then be presented with the Cloud Solutions. Cloud solutions should be part of an evaluation step, before and independent of the download step.
Thanks, Caty
Thanks -Vincent
> Thanks, > Caty
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 09 Mar 2016, at 18:46, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]> wrote:
Iteration 2: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWikiOrgDownload2Layout#HIte...
Changes: - Separated in 'Demo Installation' and 'Production Installation' - Listing separated 'Installation notes' and 'Download' button for each option
Regarding 'Demo'/'Production' terms, Eduard mentioned also: - 'Small Installation' - 'Larger Production Installation' - 'Ready to use bundle'
Let me know what you think.
Sounds good. Some comments (I already gave most of them already in the past FTR): * WAR file for Container —> WAR file for Servlet Container * A database also needs to be set up and configured -> A database and a Servlet Container need to be set up and configured * Graphical installer —> Graphical Installer for All Platforms * Graphical Windows native installer —> Graphical Installer for Windows * Standalone package -> ZIP Package (we’re now calling them Demo packagings) * “use the ZIP distribution” —> “use the ZIP packaging” * “includes a Jetty container” —> “includes a Jetty Servlet Container” or “Jetty Server” * The 3 demo packagings ALL include a Jetty server + HSQLDB database. The way it’s described make it sound like only the ZIP packaging does. This needs to be fixed. * The reason for the ZIP package is not exactly what is mentioned; it’s for users who don’t want/need to use a Graphical Installer. * The explanation below that starts “If you’re a first time…” is wrong. It should just say: “These Demo packages are not supposed to be used in production, since the embedded database does not support large wikis efficiently and is not tuned for a production usage.” * “Default set of wiki pages”. Should be removed since we don’t want to encourage this now (we offer a DW). Instead we should have a link for “other packagings” and point to the various tutorials + yaourt-, and include the wiki pages there in case someone needs them. * The text below Production install should also be modified to remove the mention of wiki pages. Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Caty
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
I prefer "Demo"
Thanks, Caty
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:22 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
On 22 Feb 2016 at 15:27:04, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On 19 Feb 2016 at 15:20:09, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
[email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Caty,
On 17 Feb 2016 at 17:44:56, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
(mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> Fixed the links > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found at >> http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download >> >> >> The proposal is here: >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/ >> >> bin/view/Proposal/ >> >> XWikiOrgDownload2Layout >> >> >> The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages (version, >> type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal. >> >> Let me know what you think.
I really like the new Download page (LTS, Stable, Dev). Much nicer and cleaner than the current version! :)
However I’m not sure about the second download page with the Local, Server, Debian boxes. There are several issues for me: * The Local packagings can be used on a server * The server packagings can be used locally * The Debian packaging can be used both locally and on a server
So currently the documentation pages use terms like "Standalone distribution" and "WAR package". For me these naming are not user-friendly and I might not know what the acronym stands for or what standalone means. That's why I suggested Local and Server, since they are more simplistic but yes maybe they are not truly correct. Maybe we can iterate more on the naming but we need an improvement here since we want to encourage "local" testing even for not so technical users/administrators.
I understand what you wanted but indeed I find the new terms even more confusing :)
For me we should think in term of “Using XWiki”. To use XWiki the user has 2 choices:
A) Download and install it locally (wherever he’s installing the download from, could be a laptop, could be a server machine, etc). This is usually referred as “on premises” by comparison to using it as a service (cloud, saas, etc).
B) Use it as a service.
For A) the options we have are: * Demo packagings: those are the options from http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationStandalone. They include a pre-installed HSQLDB Database and a Jetty container Specifically the following installers/packagings: ** the EXE packaging, ** the ZIP packaging, ** the JAR packaging
FWIW Denis suggested the name “Personal packagings”. So we have 2 options so far: - Demo packagings (clearly shows they not for production) - Personal packagings (hints that they are for personal use only, ie single user wiki)
I think I prefer Demo. WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
* Production-level packagings: ** Debian packaging (all in one installation that includes MySQL and Tomcat) ** The WAR (the user needs to install both a Servlet Container and a Database and deploy the WAR in the Servlet Container) * Other packagings/setup that are not supported by the XWiki Core Dev Team: ** tutorials ** yaourt packaging
For B) the options we have are: * Demo on playground.xwiki.org(http://playground.xwiki.org) * myxwiki.org(http://myxwiki.org) for non-profit organizations and individuals. Free but no warranties in term of uptime or support. Used as a real-world test platform by the XWiki Core Dev Team to test the latest versions of XWiki. * Cloud and Hosting offers from companies helping develop the XWiki open source project (the companies listed at http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Support#HProfessionalSupport and defined by the xwiki.org(http://xwiki.org) governance at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Governance): ** From XWiki SAS: XCS (http://info.xwiki.com/xcs-demo-request.html) or dedicated hosting (http://www.xwiki.com/en/services/hosting) ** From Softec or EsPresto AG: link to their web sites
It would be nice that a user wants to use XWiki he lands on a page showing the 2 options: install on premises and hosting/cloud solutions. Then he can drill down and if he wants to install on premises, be able to select from the various download options.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
* Server is not a good differentiator since XWiki is a Server app even if you install it locally ;) * BTW it’s misising the other tutorials and other packagings (the yaourt one for example)
To be honest I didn't know what you were referring to until I found
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Installation#HUsingyaour...
When I did the re-design I took the information from the Download page and the "yaourt" one is missing. In order to fix this we could modify the third column called now "Debian Installation" into a other operating systems ways of installing ( or another name ) and list there links towards the Debian and Arch Linux install documentation.
* And even more important it’s also missing Cloud solutions. I’d really like if we could list the various cloud solutions offered by companies participating to the xwiki development (and possibly list myxwiki.org too but if we list it, we need to put visible disclaimer since it’s a test farm with no warranties and for non-business/personal projects only).
IMO this should be a total different page, let's call it "Test Drive XWiki" or "Try XWiki" or "Evaluate XWiki" that could showcase Playground, MyXWiki and other Cloud solutions, but this should be part of a different proposal than the Download page (which lists versions and install methods). Currently I didn't tackled this proposal yet.
So maybe we shouldn’t discriminate between Local, Server, Debian
but maybe
instead between “On-Premises” and “Cloud”, WDYT?
I'm not sure what "On Premises" means although I know it's an used term, but I don't find it very clear and not sure if it describes well the zip, war, etc. options.
The problem is that we list the "Local, Server, Debian" install options after you selected the version you want to download. So I find it a bit odd for an user to be convinced that he wants to download XWiki, select his version and then be presented with the Cloud Solutions. Cloud solutions should be part of an evaluation step, before and independent of the download step.
Thanks, Caty
Thanks -Vincent
>> Thanks, >> Caty
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
I agree that we should not list the default set of wiki pages. 2016-03-14 9:59 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>:
On 09 Mar 2016, at 18:46, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]> wrote:
Iteration 2:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWikiOrgDownload2Layout#HIte...
Changes: - Separated in 'Demo Installation' and 'Production Installation' - Listing separated 'Installation notes' and 'Download' button for each option
Regarding 'Demo'/'Production' terms, Eduard mentioned also: - 'Small Installation' - 'Larger Production Installation' - 'Ready to use bundle'
Let me know what you think.
Sounds good. Some comments (I already gave most of them already in the past FTR):
* WAR file for Container —> WAR file for Servlet Container * A database also needs to be set up and configured -> A database and a Servlet Container need to be set up and configured * Graphical installer —> Graphical Installer for All Platforms * Graphical Windows native installer —> Graphical Installer for Windows * Standalone package -> ZIP Package (we’re now calling them Demo packagings) * “use the ZIP distribution” —> “use the ZIP packaging” * “includes a Jetty container” —> “includes a Jetty Servlet Container” or “Jetty Server” * The 3 demo packagings ALL include a Jetty server + HSQLDB database. The way it’s described make it sound like only the ZIP packaging does. This needs to be fixed. * The reason for the ZIP package is not exactly what is mentioned; it’s for users who don’t want/need to use a Graphical Installer. * The explanation below that starts “If you’re a first time…” is wrong. It should just say: “These Demo packages are not supposed to be used in production, since the embedded database does not support large wikis efficiently and is not tuned for a production usage.” * “Default set of wiki pages”. Should be removed since we don’t want to encourage this now (we offer a DW). Instead we should have a link for “other packagings” and point to the various tutorials + yaourt-, and include the wiki pages there in case someone needs them. * The text below Production install should also be modified to remove the mention of wiki pages.
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Caty
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
I prefer "Demo"
Thanks, Caty
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:22 AM, [email protected] < [email protected]> wrote:
On 22 Feb 2016 at 15:27:04, [email protected] ([email protected] (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
On 19 Feb 2016 at 15:20:09, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
[email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Hi Caty, > > On 17 Feb 2016 at 17:44:56, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
> (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> Fixed the links >> >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This proposal wants to improve the current download page layout found > at >>> http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download >>> >>> >>> The proposal is here: >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/ >>> >>> bin/view/Proposal/ >>> >>> XWikiOrgDownload2Layout >>> >>> >>> The proposal splits the current information into multiple pages > (version, >>> type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section from the proposal. >>> >>> Let me know what you think. > > I really like the new Download page (LTS, Stable, Dev). Much nicer and > cleaner than the current version! :) > > However I’m not sure about the second download page with the Local, > Server, Debian boxes. There are several issues for me: > * The Local packagings can be used on a server > * The server packagings can be used locally > * The Debian packaging can be used both locally and on a server >
So currently the documentation pages use terms like "Standalone distribution" and "WAR package". For me these naming are not user-friendly and I might not know what the acronym stands for or what standalone means. That's why I suggested Local and Server, since they are more simplistic but yes maybe they are not truly correct. Maybe we can iterate more on
the
naming but we need an improvement here since we want to encourage "local" testing even for not so technical users/administrators.
I understand what you wanted but indeed I find the new terms even more confusing :)
For me we should think in term of “Using XWiki”. To use XWiki the user has 2 choices:
A) Download and install it locally (wherever he’s installing the download from, could be a laptop, could be a server machine, etc). This is usually referred as “on premises” by comparison to using it as a service (cloud, saas, etc).
B) Use it as a service.
For A) the options we have are: * Demo packagings: those are the options from
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationStandalone .
They include a pre-installed HSQLDB Database and a Jetty container Specifically the following installers/packagings:
** the EXE packaging, ** the ZIP packaging, ** the JAR packaging
FWIW Denis suggested the name “Personal packagings”. So we have 2 options so far: - Demo packagings (clearly shows they not for production) - Personal packagings (hints that they are for personal use only, ie single user wiki)
I think I prefer Demo. WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
* Production-level packagings: ** Debian packaging (all in one installation that includes MySQL and Tomcat) ** The WAR (the user needs to install both a Servlet Container and a Database and deploy the WAR in the Servlet Container) * Other packagings/setup that are not supported by the XWiki Core Dev Team: ** tutorials ** yaourt packaging
For B) the options we have are: * Demo on playground.xwiki.org(http://playground.xwiki.org) * myxwiki.org(http://myxwiki.org) for non-profit organizations and individuals. Free but no warranties in term of uptime or support. Used as a real-world test platform by the XWiki Core Dev Team to test the latest versions of XWiki. * Cloud and Hosting offers from companies helping develop the XWiki open source project (the companies listed at http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Support#HProfessionalSupport and defined by the xwiki.org(http://xwiki.org) governance at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Governance): ** From XWiki SAS: XCS (http://info.xwiki.com/xcs-demo-request.html) or dedicated hosting (http://www.xwiki.com/en/services/hosting) ** From Softec or EsPresto AG: link to their web sites
It would be nice that a user wants to use XWiki he lands on a page showing the 2 options: install on premises and hosting/cloud solutions. Then he can drill down and if he wants to install on premises, be able to select from the various download options.
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
> * Server is not a good differentiator since XWiki is a Server app even if > you install it locally ;) > * BTW it’s misising the other tutorials and other packagings (the yaourt > one for example) >
To be honest I didn't know what you were referring to until I found
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Installation#HUsingyaour...
When I did the re-design I took the information from the Download page and the "yaourt" one is missing. In order to fix this we could modify the third column called now "Debian Installation" into a other operating systems ways of installing ( or another name ) and list there links towards the Debian and Arch Linux install documentation.
> * And even more important it’s also missing Cloud solutions. I’d really > like if we could list the various cloud solutions offered by companies > participating to the xwiki development (and possibly list myxwiki.org too > but if we list it, we need to put visible disclaimer since it’s a test farm > with no warranties and for non-business/personal projects only). >
IMO this should be a total different page, let's call it "Test Drive XWiki" or "Try XWiki" or "Evaluate XWiki" that could showcase Playground, MyXWiki and other Cloud solutions, but this should be part of a different proposal than the Download page (which lists versions and install methods). Currently I didn't tackled this proposal yet.
> > So maybe we shouldn’t discriminate between Local, Server, Debian but maybe > instead between “On-Premises” and “Cloud”, WDYT? >
I'm not sure what "On Premises" means although I know it's an used term, but I don't find it very clear and not sure if it describes well the zip, war, etc. options.
The problem is that we list the "Local, Server, Debian" install options after you selected the version you want to download. So I find it a bit odd for an user to be convinced that he wants to download XWiki, select his version and then be presented with the Cloud Solutions. Cloud solutions should be part of an evaluation step, before and independent of the download step.
Thanks, Caty
> Thanks > -Vincent > >>> Thanks, >>> Caty
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
participants (4)
-
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Guillaume Delhumeau -
Vincent Massol -
vincent＠massol.net