Hi, Wide search on the mail archives doesn't return the 2 folks who suggested an XWikipedia. Having 360K words of wiki markup articles and notes to go in such an app I'm happy to start immediate work on the use cases and uml for this. I guess at least 3 possible overlaps with other suggested projects: * Local Names for connecting to external sources. * P2P for interwiki sharing * freemind for topic map organisation. WDYT Cheers Jim PS Have now had a go at learning javascript, velocity and groovy so I should be up to speed soon (20 years C, C++, java and strict jsp-j2ee). -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Hi, Where did you see a suggestion for XWikipedia ? I've hadn't any suggestion of a project having this name.. Concerning the "Local Names" project, there has been one student proposing it but he has a good chance of not being accepted because he is not 18.. There has been a proposal for the MindMap Editing view of the Wiki which will probably happen even if it's not taken for the Summer of Code program. The person is in Spain. I can give you his skype id if you contact me. Ludovic Jim Stuttard a écrit :
Hi,
Wide search on the mail archives doesn't return the 2 folks who suggested an XWikipedia. Having 360K words of wiki markup articles and notes to go in such an app I'm happy to start immediate work on the use cases and uml for this.
I guess at least 3 possible overlaps with other suggested projects:
* Local Names for connecting to external sources. * P2P for interwiki sharing * freemind for topic map organisation.
WDYT
Cheers
Jim
PS Have now had a go at learning javascript, velocity and groovy so I should be up to speed soon (20 years C, C++, java and strict jsp-j2ee).
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On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:37:42 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
Where did you see a suggestion for XWikipedia ? I've hadn't any suggestion of a project having this name..
Yea, There were 2 mentions with tasks TBD. Does "Search-Wide" include [developer-requests@xwiki.?]
Cheers
Jim
PS Have now had a go at learning javascript, velocity and groovy so I should be up to speed soon (20 years C, C++, java and strict jsp-j2ee).
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Where have you seen these mentions ? Do you have a link ? Search-wide does not include neither the mailing list, neither the bug tracking Ludovic Jim Stuttard a écrit :
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:37:42 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
Where did you see a suggestion for XWikipedia ? I've hadn't any suggestion of a project having this name..
Yea, There were 2 mentions with tasks TBD. Does "Search-Wide" include [developer-requests@xwiki.?]
Cheers
Jim
PS Have now had a go at learning javascript, velocity and groovy so I should be up to speed soon (20 years C, C++, java and strict jsp-j2ee).
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-- Ludovic Dubost XPertNet: http://www.xpertnet.fr/ Blog: http://www.ludovic.org/blog/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost AIM: nvludo Yahoo: ludovic
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 23:28:35 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
Where have you seen these mentions ? Do you have a link ? Search-wide does not include neither the mailing list
Sorry I coined the term XWikipedia, the posts were about a XWiki-based wikipedia clone and they were definitely on the mailing list but poxy Opera doesn't have a function to search all items received. It's the WAP and scaleability and counter-testing keeping me using it instead of Firefox. Cheers Jim PS. The academic folks on chemed-l, physics-l and physoc mailing lists would all like to publish their academic work and are open to content management (Lenya got the MIT CMS vote) and wikis. I'm interested in how Lenya and XWiki might be sensibly integrated or differentiated (Cocoon pipeline seems a great idea and press-button skeleton site is sooo easy). (Tapestry == simple HTML output is also attractively maximally featured - a bit like Xwiki :-)).
XWiki and CMS are mailing differentiate by the role you give your visitors.. With CMS there is a distinctions between writer and reader and they get different user interfaces. In XWiki (and Wiki in general) it's the same interface and writing is considered as important as reading. So the more your subject requires or takes advantage of the implications of your users, the better XWiki is. The more the writers want to "control" the publishing process, the better CMSs are. However it is still possible using a little rights to add some authorization for certain spaces of the wiki (for example the blog of the home page).. But Wikis don't have advanced features for validations are systems to publish the web site at once.. Well in wiki you don't care much about these features because you want everybody to be equal.. so there is not reason to why they would not see an incomplete document. Ludovic Jim Stuttard a écrit :
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 23:28:35 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
Where have you seen these mentions ? Do you have a link ? Search-wide does not include neither the mailing list
Sorry I coined the term XWikipedia, the posts were about a XWiki-based wikipedia clone and they were definitely on the mailing list but poxy Opera doesn't have a function to search all items received. It's the WAP and scaleability and counter-testing keeping me using it instead of Firefox.
Cheers
Jim
PS. The academic folks on chemed-l, physics-l and physoc mailing lists would all like to publish their academic work and are open to content management (Lenya got the MIT CMS vote) and wikis. I'm interested in how Lenya and XWiki might be sensibly integrated or differentiated (Cocoon pipeline seems a great idea and press-button skeleton site is sooo easy). (Tapestry == simple HTML output is also attractively maximally featured - a bit like Xwiki :-)).
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-- Ludovic Dubost XPertNet: http://www.xpertnet.fr/ Blog: http://www.ludovic.org/blog/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost AIM: nvludo Yahoo: ludovic
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:54:21 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
XWiki and CMS are mailing differentiate by the role you give your visitors.. With CMS there is a distinctions between writer and reader and they get different user interfaces. In XWiki (and Wiki in general) it's the same interface and writing is considered as important as reading.
Agreed.
So the more your subject requires or takes advantage of the implications of your users, the better XWiki is. The more the writers want to "control" the publishing process, the better CMSs are.
That's perhaps why in a more democratic knowledge base the divisions between a wiki, a wikipedia, a wikiblog and a content management system are getting blurred. For example an academic department where I've just done some mentoring has selected Plone for its CMS. They also want to show student work. I have a current interest in ontologies for process modelling of healthcare pathways and protocols. UML-enabled clinicians are drawing up the protocols and everybody needs to see them. So there does seems a democratising trend. There would be a problem if this was just another turn of the "end-user programming", 4GL cycle. IMHO lightweight tools for all is how things are likely to be. But remember the blight of badly-designed Filemaker Pro databases produced by scientists, academics and clinicians or the study showing >5% London city financial institution spreadsheets contained for mula errors. It's got to be a horses for courses future.
Wikis don't have advanced features for validations I'm not quite sure what you mean specifically. But, say, an academic results or clinical wiki needs guaranteed authentification and validated information __and__ robustness. Won't lots more 'technical', as it were, validation have to occur on an extended XWiki when it provides, say, streaming video.
Taking on board what you say then perhaps what might be good is for Lenya to become more like XWiki or have an XWiki interface and receive a coplet/portlet web service through the Lenya api?
you want everybody to be equal.. so there is not reason to why they would not see an incomplete document.
We already have selective access rights so it's not that we always want everybody to have equal access. XWiki is such a large project, it's the consensus road map statement I'm trying to get. The Google project list is an excellent start and a statement of how these are going to integrate should keep folks busy for many hackathons. Hope you don't mind the not-apparently-productive rambles. Cheers Jim
Jim Stuttard a écrit :
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:54:21 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
XWiki and CMS are mailing differentiate by the role you give your visitors.. With CMS there is a distinctions between writer and reader and they get different user interfaces. In XWiki (and Wiki in general) it's the same interface and writing is considered as important as reading.
Agreed.
So the more your subject requires or takes advantage of the implications of your users, the better XWiki is. The more the writers want to "control" the publishing process, the better CMSs are.
That's perhaps why in a more democratic knowledge base the divisions between a wiki, a wikipedia, a wikiblog and a content management system are getting blurred.
For example an academic department where I've just done some mentoring has selected Plone for its CMS. They also want to show student work. I have a current interest in ontologies for process modelling of healthcare pathways and protocols. UML-enabled clinicians are drawing up the protocols and everybody needs to see them. So there does seems a democratising trend.
There would be a problem if this was just another turn of the "end-user programming", 4GL cycle. IMHO lightweight tools for all is how things are likely to be. But remember the blight of badly-designed Filemaker Pro databases produced by scientists, academics and clinicians or the study showing >5% London city financial institution spreadsheets contained for mula errors. It's got to be a horses for courses future.
Yes it's a problem.. End user design leaves always room for errors... But a way to see this is that it wouldn't be done at all if there wasn't end use tools.. So the 5% errors is not that bad.. With network tools I think we can improve the model. The good thing about programming in XWiki is that you can have much more easily experienced people review what end-users have done. People that have the content knowledge can more easily share the work with people that are the programmers. They can work together in the same tool.. This is not the case of the more classical approach of separating application design from application usage.
Wikis don't have advanced features for validations
I'm not quite sure what you mean specifically. But, say, an academic results or clinical wiki needs guaranteed authentification and validated information __and__ robustness. Won't lots more 'technical', as it were, validation have to occur on an extended XWiki when it provides, say, streaming video.
Taking on board what you say then perhaps what might be good is for Lenya to become more like XWiki or have an XWiki interface and receive a coplet/portlet web service through the Lenya api?
Not sure what you mean here.. Integration is always interesting.. Well that's were CMS is different and complementary to Wikis.. Now you can do it both ways.. Implement some sort of validation in a Wiki.. Implement soem sort of Wiki in a CMS.. You can also keep the tools separate.. and integrate them using a portal (XWiki can be integrated in eXo and soon JBoss Portal).
you want everybody to be equal.. so there is not reason to why they would not see an incomplete document.
We already have selective access rights so it's not that we always want everybody to have equal access.
Right.. but we encourage to use viewing rights more than editing rights..
XWiki is such a large project, it's the consensus road map statement I'm trying to get. The Google project list is an excellent start and a statement of how these are going to integrate should keep folks busy for many hackathons.
Yes.. I've been relunctant to build a roadmap because there wasn't the actual critical mass to implement it.. I tend to view a roadmap something on whcih we would commit.. Now we could do some sort of tentative roadmap without dates showing our priorities..
Hope you don't mind the not-apparently-productive rambles.
Not at all.. we need to know how we can help getting more people on board.. Ludovic
Cheers
Jim
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On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:02:36 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
So the 5% errors is not that bad.. With network tools I think we can improve the model. The good thing about programming in XWiki is that you can have much more easily experienced people review what end-users have done. People that have the content knowledge can more easily share the work with people that are the programmers. They can work together in the same tool.. This is not the case of the more classical approach of separating application design from application usage.
Can't have 5% errors in exam result data. You wouldn't implement a spreadsheet without testing it.
CMS is different and complementary to Wikis.. Now you can do it both ways.. Implement some sort of validation in a Wiki.. Implement soem sort of Wiki in a CMS.. You can also keep the tools separate.. and integrate them using a portal (XWiki can be integrated in eXo and soon JBoss Portal).
The portal route was my conclusion but I'm working with the Cocoon portlet server.
Yes.. I've been relunctant to build a roadmap because there wasn't the actual critical mass to implement it.. I tend to view a roadmap something on whcih we would commit.. Now we could do some sort of tentative roadmap without dates showing our priorities..
That would be great, I'm sure everyone would really appreciate your architectural vision without obligation :-). Thanks for the, as always enlightening comments. Jim
Jim Stuttard a écrit :
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:02:36 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
So the 5% errors is not that bad.. With network tools I think we can improve the model. The good thing about programming in XWiki is that you can have much more easily experienced people review what end-users have done. People that have the content knowledge can more easily share the work with people that are the programmers. They can work together in the same tool.. This is not the case of the more classical approach of separating application design from application usage.
Can't have 5% errors in exam result data. You wouldn't implement a spreadsheet without testing it.
In this case, I would say you have to have your application be reviewed.. I don't think it's an issue with the tool, but an issue with the process. It's not because a tool gives the possibility to users to modify that it should be used in all cases !
Yes.. I've been relunctant to build a roadmap because there wasn't the actual critical mass to implement it.. I tend to view a roadmap something on whcih we would commit.. Now we could do some sort of tentative roadmap without dates showing our priorities..
That would be great, I'm sure everyone would really appreciate your architectural vision without obligation :-).
Ok.. I'll look into this.. Ludovic
Ok, I think you are talking about this post: http://mail-archive.objectweb.org/xwiki-dev/2005-05/msg00050.html It is clearly in the scope of Local Names Ludovic Jim Stuttard a écrit :
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 23:28:35 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
Where have you seen these mentions ? Do you have a link ? Search-wide does not include neither the mailing list
Sorry I coined the term XWikipedia, the posts were about a XWiki-based wikipedia clone and they were definitely on the mailing list but poxy Opera doesn't have a function to search all items received. It's the WAP and scaleability and counter-testing keeping me using it instead of Firefox.
Cheers
Jim
PS. The academic folks on chemed-l, physics-l and physoc mailing lists would all like to publish their academic work and are open to content management (Lenya got the MIT CMS vote) and wikis. I'm interested in how Lenya and XWiki might be sensibly integrated or differentiated (Cocoon pipeline seems a great idea and press-button skeleton site is sooo easy). (Tapestry == simple HTML output is also attractively maximally featured - a bit like Xwiki :-)).
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-- Ludovic Dubost XPertNet: http://www.xpertnet.fr/ Blog: http://www.ludovic.org/blog/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost AIM: nvludo Yahoo: ludovic
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:37:42 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
MindMap Editing view of the Wiki which will probably happen even if it's not taken for the Summer of Code program. The person is in Spain. I can give you his skype id if you contact me.
Not skyped I'm afraid. Perhaps you can forward this email to him. I have friends who would love a topic map interface and wiki services (pedia, blog, rss etc) for academic course material like: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html One of whom might be: http://www.meta-synthesis.com/ Cheers Jim PS. I have no idea yet about the Freemind api but soon will have. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
I don't have his email yet, but as soon as I have it I'll foward him this. Ludovic Jim Stuttard a écrit :
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:37:42 +0200, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote:
MindMap Editing view of the Wiki which will probably happen even if it's not taken for the Summer of Code program. The person is in Spain. I can give you his skype id if you contact me.
Not skyped I'm afraid. Perhaps you can forward this email to him. I have friends who would love a topic map interface and wiki services (pedia, blog, rss etc) for academic course material like:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html
One of whom might be:
http://www.meta-synthesis.com/
Cheers
Jim
PS. I have no idea yet about the Freemind api but soon will have.
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participants (2)
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Ludovic Dubost