[xwiki-devs] [Rendering] Honor whitespaces in cells or not?
Hi, Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not? The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell symbols. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant). If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should honor them since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need to agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell delimiters then. WDYT? Thanks -Vincent
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not?
The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell symbols.
See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables
Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant).
If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should honor them since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need to agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell delimiters then.
WDYT?
One consideration. Right now you have to write the following: |cell1|cell2|cell3 this is not very readable IMO compared to: | cell1 | cell2 | cell3 However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the latter you'll get: <td> cell1 </td> in XHTML. Thanks -Vincent
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not?
The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell symbols.
See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables
Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant).
If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should honor them since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need to agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell delimiters then.
WDYT?
One consideration. Right now you have to write the following:
|cell1|cell2|cell3
this is not very readable IMO compared to:
| cell1 | cell2 | cell3
However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the latter you'll get:
<td> cell1 </td> in XHTML.
Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table delimiters and honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables? Otherwise, I'm pretty undecided, since both sound good (for various reasons) I'd say to leave it like it is. Happy coding, Anca Luca
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Anca Paula Luca <[email protected]>wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not?
The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell symbols.
See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables
Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant).
If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should honor them since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need to agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell delimiters then.
WDYT?
One consideration. Right now you have to write the following:
|cell1|cell2|cell3
this is not very readable IMO compared to:
| cell1 | cell2 | cell3
However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the latter you'll get:
<td> cell1 </td> in XHTML.
Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table delimiters and honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables?
I'm leaning towards trimming the surrounding white spaces. One is that it allows us to align cell elements and the second is they doesn't represent any valuable information. I mean regardless of the existence of surrounding white spaces, the output will look the same. WDYT ? Thanks. - Asiri
Otherwise, I'm pretty undecided, since both sound good (for various reasons) I'd say to leave it like it is.
Happy coding, Anca Luca
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Anca Paula Luca <[email protected]>wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not?
The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell symbols.
See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables
Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant).
If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should honor them since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need to agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell delimiters then.
WDYT?
One consideration. Right now you have to write the following:
|cell1|cell2|cell3
this is not very readable IMO compared to:
| cell1 | cell2 | cell3
However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the latter you'll get:
<td> cell1 </td> in XHTML.
Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table delimiters and honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables?
I'm leaning towards trimming the surrounding white spaces. One is that it allows us to align cell elements and the second is they doesn't represent any valuable information. I mean regardless of the existence of surrounding white spaces, the output will look the same.
No, and that's the point. Currently whitespaces are significant and are taken into account and thus represented. -Vincent
WDYT ?
Thanks.
- Asiri
Otherwise, I'm pretty undecided, since both sound good (for various reasons) I'd say to leave it like it is.
Happy coding, Anca Luca
Thanks -Vincent
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Anca Paula Luca <[email protected]>wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not?
The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell symbols.
See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables
Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant).
If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should honor them since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need to agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell delimiters then.
WDYT?
One consideration. Right now you have to write the following:
|cell1|cell2|cell3
this is not very readable IMO compared to:
| cell1 | cell2 | cell3
However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the latter you'll get:
<td> cell1 </td> in XHTML.
Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table delimiters and honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables?
I'm leaning towards trimming the surrounding white spaces. One is that it allows us to align cell elements and the second is they doesn't represent any valuable information. I mean regardless of the existence of surrounding white spaces, the output will look the same.
No, and that's the point. Currently whitespaces are significant and are taken into account and thus represented.
Ok, I tried it and it has an effect only when the output is something like this : <table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table> OR <table border="1"><tr><td style="white-space: pre-wrap"> hi </td></tr></table> And not when it's like : <table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table> So it makes sense to respect white spaces (+1). But whether to use or styles is a question. styles seems to be a cleaner way as suggested by sergiu. Thanks. - Asiri
-Vincent
WDYT ?
Thanks.
- Asiri
Otherwise, I'm pretty undecided, since both sound good (for various reasons) I'd say to leave it like it is.
Happy coding, Anca Luca
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Anca Paula Luca <[email protected]>wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not?
The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell symbols.
See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables
Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant).
If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should honor them since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need to agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell delimiters then.
WDYT? One consideration. Right now you have to write the following:
|cell1|cell2|cell3
this is not very readable IMO compared to:
| cell1 | cell2 | cell3
However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the latter you'll get:
<td> cell1 </td> in XHTML. Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table delimiters and honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables?
I'm leaning towards trimming the surrounding white spaces. One is that it allows us to align cell elements and the second is they doesn't represent any valuable information. I mean regardless of the existence of surrounding white spaces, the output will look the same. No, and that's the point. Currently whitespaces are significant and are taken into account and thus represented.
Ok, I tried it and it has an effect only when the output is something like this :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table> OR
<table border="1"><tr><td style="white-space: pre-wrap"> hi </td></tr></table>
And not when it's like :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table>
So it makes sense to respect white spaces (+1). But whether to use or styles is a question. styles seems to be a cleaner way as suggested by sergiu.
If we want all spaces to be preserved, we could set the pre-wrap style globally, on the whole document (or just on the content). But this will cause problems with indented script code, as they generate a lot of output. I am still against preserving *visual* spaces in general. This is not how HTML works. This is not how the web works. Do we want to do this just so that MS Word users feel like they are editing a word document, and not a web page? Is this our target audience, secretaries that put on their resumes that they can use MS Office? -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:14 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Anca Paula Luca <[email protected]>wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> Hi, > > Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not? > > The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell > symbols. > > See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables > > Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant). > > If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should > honor > them > since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need > to > agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell > delimiters > then. > > WDYT? One consideration. Right now you have to write the following:
|cell1|cell2|cell3
this is not very readable IMO compared to:
| cell1 | cell2 | cell3
However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the latter you'll get:
<td> cell1 </td> in XHTML. Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table delimiters and honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables?
I'm leaning towards trimming the surrounding white spaces. One is that it allows us to align cell elements and the second is they doesn't represent any valuable information. I mean regardless of the existence of surrounding white spaces, the output will look the same. No, and that's the point. Currently whitespaces are significant and are taken into account and thus represented.
Ok, I tried it and it has an effect only when the output is something like this :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table> OR
<table border="1"><tr><td style="white-space: pre-wrap"> hi </td></tr></table>
And not when it's like :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table>
So it makes sense to respect white spaces (+1). But whether to use or styles is a question. styles seems to be a cleaner way as suggested by sergiu.
If we want all spaces to be preserved, we could set the pre-wrap style globally, on the whole document (or just on the content). But this will cause problems with indented script code, as they generate a lot of output.
I am still against preserving *visual* spaces in general. This is not how HTML works. This is not how the web works.
Do we want to do this just so that MS Word users feel like they are editing a word document, and not a web page?
Yes. That what all our users have been asking for AFAIK and this is why we've decided at the beginning that newlines will generate new lines and not be ignored as with HTML.
Is this our target audience, secretaries that put on their resumes that they can use MS Office?
I think this is exactly what our users are asking for: "Word on the Web". As a developer I personally wouldn't have minded that our Newlines and spaces were behaving the same as HTML but I thought he had decided early on that we wanted to display what users typed (i.e. Newlines honored, spaces honored) since this is what I've heard being asked for. I much prefer to have this rather than to see WYSIWYG-generated wiki syntax with a special syntax to force preservation of space characters and \\ everywhere for newlines. Anyway I'm open to discussion except that this comes very late, so close to the final release. It would be very hard to change this now in time for the release. OTOH if everyone is against honoring white spaces then we better change it now. Please let me all know your views quickly. Thanks -Vincent
Changed the subject since this has drifted to a more general topic (I was initially asking only for table cells and only for esthetical reasons). Thanks -Vincent On Nov 26, 2008, at 9:08 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:14 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Anca Paula Luca <[email protected]>wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote: > On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not? >> >> The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell >> symbols. >> >> See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables >> >> Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant). >> >> If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should >> honor >> them >> since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just >> need to >> agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell >> delimiters >> then. >> >> WDYT? > One consideration. Right now you have to write the following: > > |cell1|cell2|cell3 > > this is not very readable IMO compared to: > > | cell1 | cell2 | cell3 > > However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the > latter > you'll get: > > <td> cell1 </td> in XHTML. Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table delimiters and honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables?
I'm leaning towards trimming the surrounding white spaces. One is that it allows us to align cell elements and the second is they doesn't represent any valuable information. I mean regardless of the existence of surrounding white spaces, the output will look the same. No, and that's the point. Currently whitespaces are significant and are taken into account and thus represented.
Ok, I tried it and it has an effect only when the output is something like this :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table> OR
<table border="1"><tr><td style="white-space: pre-wrap"> hi </td></tr></table>
And not when it's like :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table>
So it makes sense to respect white spaces (+1). But whether to use or styles is a question. styles seems to be a cleaner way as suggested by sergiu.
If we want all spaces to be preserved, we could set the pre-wrap style globally, on the whole document (or just on the content). But this will cause problems with indented script code, as they generate a lot of output.
I am still against preserving *visual* spaces in general. This is not how HTML works. This is not how the web works.
Do we want to do this just so that MS Word users feel like they are editing a word document, and not a web page?
Yes. That what all our users have been asking for AFAIK and this is why we've decided at the beginning that newlines will generate new lines and not be ignored as with HTML.
Is this our target audience, secretaries that put on their resumes that they can use MS Office?
I think this is exactly what our users are asking for: "Word on the Web".
As a developer I personally wouldn't have minded that our Newlines and spaces were behaving the same as HTML but I thought he had decided early on that we wanted to display what users typed (i.e. Newlines honored, spaces honored) since this is what I've heard being asked for. I much prefer to have this rather than to see WYSIWYG-generated wiki syntax with a special syntax to force preservation of space characters and \\ everywhere for newlines.
Anyway I'm open to discussion except that this comes very late, so close to the final release. It would be very hard to change this now in time for the release. OTOH if everyone is against honoring white spaces then we better change it now.
Please let me all know your views quickly.
Thanks -Vincent
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Changed the subject since this has drifted to a more general topic (I was initially asking only for table cells and only for esthetical reasons).
Thanks -Vincent
On Nov 26, 2008, at 9:08 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:14 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Anca Paula Luca <[email protected]>wrote:
> Vincent Massol wrote: >> On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not? >>> >>> The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell >>> symbols. >>> >>> See
http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables
>>> >>> Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant). >>> >>> If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should >>> honor >>> them >>> since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just >>> need to >>> agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell >>> delimiters >>> then. >>> >>> WDYT? >> One consideration. Right now you have to write the following: >> >> |cell1|cell2|cell3 >> >> this is not very readable IMO compared to: >> >> | cell1 | cell2 | cell3 >> >> However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the >> latter >> you'll get: >> >> <td> cell1 </td> in XHTML. > Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table > delimiters > and > honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables? > I'm leaning towards trimming the surrounding white spaces. One is that it allows us to align cell elements and the second is they doesn't represent any valuable information. I mean regardless of the existence of surrounding white spaces, the output will look the same. No, and that's the point. Currently whitespaces are significant and are taken into account and thus represented.
Ok, I tried it and it has an effect only when the output is something like this :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table> OR
<table border="1"><tr><td style="white-space: pre-wrap"> hi </td></tr></table>
And not when it's like :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table>
So it makes sense to respect white spaces (+1). But whether to use or styles is a question. styles seems to be a cleaner way as suggested by sergiu.
If we want all spaces to be preserved, we could set the pre-wrap style globally, on the whole document (or just on the content). But this will cause problems with indented script code, as they generate a lot of output.
I am still against preserving *visual* spaces in general. This is not how HTML works. This is not how the web works.
Do we want to do this just so that MS Word users feel like they are editing a word document, and not a web page?
Yes. That what all our users have been asking for AFAIK and this is why we've decided at the beginning that newlines will generate new lines and not be ignored as with HTML.
Is this our target audience, secretaries that put on their resumes that they can use MS Office?
I think this is exactly what our users are asking for: "Word on the Web".
As a developer I personally wouldn't have minded that our Newlines and spaces were behaving the same as HTML but I thought he had decided early on that we wanted to display what users typed (i.e. Newlines honored, spaces honored) since this is what I've heard being asked for. I much prefer to have this rather than to see WYSIWYG-generated wiki syntax with a special syntax to force preservation of space characters and \\ everywhere for newlines.
Anyway I'm open to discussion except that this comes very late, so close to the final release. It would be very hard to change this now in time for the release. OTOH if everyone is against honoring white spaces then we better change it now.
Please let me all know your views quickly.
Non-binding +1 FOR honoring white spaces, as an user that inputted white spaces while editing will want to see them reflected in the rendered content. Guillaume
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki Skype ID : wikibc http://blog.xwiki.com/
+1 for honoring white spaces. Take care of this is ok for a HTML developer but a wiki user will expect all his space to appear in the renderer like in any editor like MS Word or OpenOffice... On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Changed the subject since this has drifted to a more general topic (I was initially asking only for table cells and only for esthetical reasons).
Thanks -Vincent
On Nov 26, 2008, at 9:08 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:14 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Anca Paula Luca <[email protected]>wrote:
> Vincent Massol wrote: >> On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not? >>> >>> The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell >>> symbols. >>> >>> See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables >>> >>> Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant). >>> >>> If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should >>> honor >>> them >>> since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just >>> need to >>> agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell >>> delimiters >>> then. >>> >>> WDYT? >> One consideration. Right now you have to write the following: >> >> |cell1|cell2|cell3 >> >> this is not very readable IMO compared to: >> >> | cell1 | cell2 | cell3 >> >> However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the >> latter >> you'll get: >> >> <td> cell1 </td> in XHTML. > Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table > delimiters > and > honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables? > I'm leaning towards trimming the surrounding white spaces. One is that it allows us to align cell elements and the second is they doesn't represent any valuable information. I mean regardless of the existence of surrounding white spaces, the output will look the same. No, and that's the point. Currently whitespaces are significant and are taken into account and thus represented.
Ok, I tried it and it has an effect only when the output is something like this :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table> OR
<table border="1"><tr><td style="white-space: pre-wrap"> hi </td></tr></table>
And not when it's like :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table>
So it makes sense to respect white spaces (+1). But whether to use or styles is a question. styles seems to be a cleaner way as suggested by sergiu.
If we want all spaces to be preserved, we could set the pre-wrap style globally, on the whole document (or just on the content). But this will cause problems with indented script code, as they generate a lot of output.
I am still against preserving *visual* spaces in general. This is not how HTML works. This is not how the web works.
Do we want to do this just so that MS Word users feel like they are editing a word document, and not a web page?
Yes. That what all our users have been asking for AFAIK and this is why we've decided at the beginning that newlines will generate new lines and not be ignored as with HTML.
Is this our target audience, secretaries that put on their resumes that they can use MS Office?
I think this is exactly what our users are asking for: "Word on the Web".
As a developer I personally wouldn't have minded that our Newlines and spaces were behaving the same as HTML but I thought he had decided early on that we wanted to display what users typed (i.e. Newlines honored, spaces honored) since this is what I've heard being asked for. I much prefer to have this rather than to see WYSIWYG-generated wiki syntax with a special syntax to force preservation of space characters and \\ everywhere for newlines.
Anyway I'm open to discussion except that this comes very late, so close to the final release. It would be very hard to change this now in time for the release. OTOH if everyone is against honoring white spaces then we better change it now.
Please let me all know your views quickly.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:14 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Anca Paula Luca <[email protected]>wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote: > On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not? >> >> The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell >> symbols. >> >> See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables >> >> Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant). >> >> If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should >> honor >> them >> since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need >> to >> agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell >> delimiters >> then. >> >> WDYT? > One consideration. Right now you have to write the following: > > |cell1|cell2|cell3 > > this is not very readable IMO compared to: > > | cell1 | cell2 | cell3 > > However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the > latter > you'll get: > > <td> cell1 </td> in XHTML. Is there any possibility to trim spaces only around the table delimiters and honor only the spaces inside the text in the tables?
I'm leaning towards trimming the surrounding white spaces. One is that it allows us to align cell elements and the second is they doesn't represent any valuable information. I mean regardless of the existence of surrounding white spaces, the output will look the same. No, and that's the point. Currently whitespaces are significant and are taken into account and thus represented.
Ok, I tried it and it has an effect only when the output is something like this :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table> OR
<table border="1"><tr><td style="white-space: pre-wrap"> hi </td></tr></table>
And not when it's like :
<table border="1"><tr><td> hi </td></tr></table>
So it makes sense to respect white spaces (+1). But whether to use or styles is a question. styles seems to be a cleaner way as suggested by sergiu.
If we want all spaces to be preserved, we could set the pre-wrap style globally, on the whole document (or just on the content). But this will cause problems with indented script code, as they generate a lot of output.
I am still against preserving *visual* spaces in general. This is not how HTML works. This is not how the web works.
Do we want to do this just so that MS Word users feel like they are editing a word document, and not a web page?
Yes. That what all our users have been asking for AFAIK and this is why we've decided at the beginning that newlines will generate new lines and not be ignored as with HTML.
Is this our target audience, secretaries that put on their resumes that they can use MS Office?
I think this is exactly what our users are asking for: "Word on the Web".
As a developer I personally wouldn't have minded that our Newlines and spaces were behaving the same as HTML but I thought he had decided early on that we wanted to display what users typed (i.e. Newlines honored, spaces honored) since this is what I've heard being asked for. I much prefer to have this rather than to see WYSIWYG-generated wiki syntax with a special syntax to force preservation of space characters and \\ everywhere for newlines.
Anyway I'm open to discussion except that this comes very late, so close to the final release. It would be very hard to change this now in time for the release. OTOH if everyone is against honoring white spaces then we better change it now.
Please let me all know your views quickly.
+1 FOR honoring white spaces. I think it is important for users who inputted white spaces while editing to see them preserved in rendered content. Guillaume
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki Skype ID : wikibc http://blog.xwiki.com/
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not?
The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell symbols.
See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0-Tables
Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant).
If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should honor them since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need to agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell delimiters then.
WDYT?
One consideration. Right now you have to write the following:
|cell1|cell2|cell3
this is not very readable IMO compared to:
| cell1 | cell2 | cell3
However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the latter you'll get:
<td> cell1 </td> in XHTML.
IMHO we should not use s anywhere. +1 for letting spaces be spaces, and HTML can take care of them. If users want to preserve space formatting, they can use a style declaration to keep whitespace displayed. -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
On Nov 25, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Do we want to honor whitespaces in table cells or not?
The main advantage of trimming them is to get aligned cell symbols.
See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0#section-Creole1.0- Tables
Right now we're honoring whitespaces (they are significant).
If we want to be consistent with normal wiki text we should honor them since we're honoring spaces in wiki text. However we just need to agree that it won't be possible to get nicely aligned cell delimiters then.
WDYT?
One consideration. Right now you have to write the following:
|cell1|cell2|cell3
this is not very readable IMO compared to:
| cell1 | cell2 | cell3
However right now since whitspaces are honored if you write the latter you'll get:
<td> cell1 </td> in XHTML.
IMHO we should not use s anywhere. +1 for letting spaces be spaces, and HTML can take care of them.
If users want to preserve space formatting, they can use a style declaration to keep whitespace displayed.
Sergiu this is not the way it's implemented. Right now spaces are meaningful in xwiki, meaning that if a user puts several spaces we consider that they want to see several spaces. I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion in the past and it took me quite some time to implement this right so I hope we're not going to change it :) Thanks -Vincent
participants (6)
-
Anca Paula Luca -
Asiri Rathnayake -
Guillaume Lerouge -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol