[xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Make it simpler to configure XWiki when there's only 1 wiki
Hi devs, Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles when they install 5.0.1. It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone. The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a regression). So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki. WDYT? We need to make it easy again to use XWiki initially. Thanks -Vincent
Hi Vincent, On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles when they install 5.0.1. It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone.
The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a regression).
So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki.
WDYT?
This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing server descriptor when that error occurs. You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a new solution.
We need to make it easy again to use XWiki initially.
Thanks -Vincent
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
Hi Denis and all, On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles when they install 5.0.1. It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone.
The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a regression).
So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki.
WDYT?
This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto
So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing server descriptor when that error occurs.
You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a new solution.
Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time. I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed. The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working. So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1). Solution 1: ========= Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case. Solution 2: ========= Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead. This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains... My preference goes to 2. WDYT? Any other solution? Thanks -Vincent PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests)
Something already been decided to take care of this issue: by default when your wiki cannot be found you are supposed to fallback on main wiki. Maybe Edy did not had time to finish it but I'm pretty sure I see the option about it in the xwiki.cfg.vm. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis and all,
On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles when they install 5.0.1. It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone.
The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a regression).
So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki.
WDYT?
This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto
So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing server descriptor when that error occurs.
You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a new solution.
Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time.
I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed.
The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working.
So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1).
Solution 1: =========
Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case.
Solution 2: =========
Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead.
This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains...
My preference goes to 2.
WDYT? Any other solution?
Thanks -Vincent
PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests)
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
#-# [Since 5.0M2] #-# What to do when the requested wiki does not exist: #-# - 0: (default) serve the main wiki #-# - 1: display an error (customizable through wikidoesnotexist.vm or xwiki:XWiki.WikiDoesNotExist) # xwiki.virtual.failOnWikiDoesNotExist=0 So the option do exist. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Something already been decided to take care of this issue: by default when your wiki cannot be found you are supposed to fallback on main wiki.
Maybe Edy did not had time to finish it but I'm pretty sure I see the option about it in the xwiki.cfg.vm.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis and all,
On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles when they install 5.0.1. It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone.
The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a regression).
So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki.
WDYT?
This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto
So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing server descriptor when that error occurs.
You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a new solution.
Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time.
I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed.
The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working.
So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1).
Solution 1: =========
Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case.
Solution 2: =========
Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead.
This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains...
My preference goes to 2.
WDYT? Any other solution?
Thanks -Vincent
PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests)
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
I checked and the real issue is that this is half implemented so we just need to fix it. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
#-# [Since 5.0M2] #-# What to do when the requested wiki does not exist: #-# - 0: (default) serve the main wiki #-# - 1: display an error (customizable through wikidoesnotexist.vm or xwiki:XWiki.WikiDoesNotExist) # xwiki.virtual.failOnWikiDoesNotExist=0
So the option do exist.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Something already been decided to take care of this issue: by default when your wiki cannot be found you are supposed to fallback on main wiki.
Maybe Edy did not had time to finish it but I'm pretty sure I see the option about it in the xwiki.cfg.vm.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis and all,
On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles when they install 5.0.1. It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone.
The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a regression).
So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki.
WDYT?
This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto
So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing server descriptor when that error occurs.
You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a new solution.
Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time.
I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed.
The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working.
So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1).
Solution 1: =========
Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case.
Solution 2: =========
Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead.
This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains...
My preference goes to 2.
WDYT? Any other solution?
Thanks -Vincent
PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests)
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]
wrote:
I checked and the real issue is that this is half implemented so we just need to fix it.
Do we know how it goes through the testing without being noticed ?
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
#-# [Since 5.0M2] #-# What to do when the requested wiki does not exist: #-# - 0: (default) serve the main wiki #-# - 1: display an error (customizable through wikidoesnotexist.vm or xwiki:XWiki.WikiDoesNotExist) # xwiki.virtual.failOnWikiDoesNotExist=0
So the option do exist.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Something already been decided to take care of this issue: by default when your wiki cannot be found you are supposed to fallback on main wiki.
Maybe Edy did not had time to finish it but I'm pretty sure I see the option about it in the xwiki.cfg.vm.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis and all,
On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles when they install 5.0.1. It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone.
The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a regression).
So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki.
WDYT?
This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto
So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing server descriptor when that error occurs.
You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a new solution.
Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time.
I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed.
The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working.
So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1).
Solution 1: =========
Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case.
Solution 2: =========
Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead.
This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains...
My preference goes to 2.
WDYT? Any other solution?
Thanks -Vincent
PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests)
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
On May 17, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]
wrote:
I checked and the real issue is that this is half implemented so we just need to fix it.
Do we know how it goes through the testing without being noticed ?
I'm pretty sure we don't have that many XEM tests (which need to be moved to XE now btw)… Something to improve for sure especially now. On the manual test level, sorin/manuel have probably not tested with "exotic" urls and from the release notes it was probably hard to guess that they had to test this and no developer has replied to their email with this information when they asked what they should test for 5.0... Thanks -Vincent
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
#-# [Since 5.0M2] #-# What to do when the requested wiki does not exist: #-# - 0: (default) serve the main wiki #-# - 1: display an error (customizable through wikidoesnotexist.vm or xwiki:XWiki.WikiDoesNotExist) # xwiki.virtual.failOnWikiDoesNotExist=0
So the option do exist.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Something already been decided to take care of this issue: by default when your wiki cannot be found you are supposed to fallback on main wiki.
Maybe Edy did not had time to finish it but I'm pretty sure I see the option about it in the xwiki.cfg.vm.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis and all,
On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi devs, > > Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles > when they install 5.0.1. > It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone. > > The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: > http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome > > And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a > regression). > > So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: > * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki. > > WDYT? >
This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto
So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing server descriptor when that error occurs.
You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a new solution.
Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time.
I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed.
The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working.
So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1).
Solution 1: =========
Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case.
Solution 2: =========
Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead.
This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains...
My preference goes to 2.
WDYT? Any other solution?
Thanks -Vincent
PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests)
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On May 17, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Mortagne < [email protected]
wrote:
I checked and the real issue is that this is half implemented so we just need to fix it.
Do we know how it goes through the testing without being noticed ?
I'm pretty sure we don't have that many XEM tests (which need to be moved to XE now btw)…
Something to improve for sure especially now.
On the manual test level, sorin/manuel have probably not tested with "exotic" urls and from the release notes it was probably hard to guess that they had to test this and no developer has replied to their email with this information when they asked what they should test for 5.0...
This seems to be something we may investigate to improve. I imagine that if nobody warn them, this is simply because the communication path is suboptimal. Maybe a more formal path, using an extension of the test report application could be an interesting solution.
Thanks -Vincent
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
#-# [Since 5.0M2] #-# What to do when the requested wiki does not exist: #-# - 0: (default) serve the main wiki #-# - 1: display an error (customizable through wikidoesnotexist.vm or xwiki:XWiki.WikiDoesNotExist) # xwiki.virtual.failOnWikiDoesNotExist=0
So the option do exist.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Something already been decided to take care of this issue: by default when your wiki cannot be found you are supposed to fallback on main wiki.
Maybe Edy did not had time to finish it but I'm pretty sure I see the option about it in the xwiki.cfg.vm.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis and all,
On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Vincent, > > > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol < [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi devs, >> >> Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles >> when they install 5.0.1. >> It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone. >> >> The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: >> http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome >> >> And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a >> regression). >> >> So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: >> * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki. >> >> WDYT? >> > > This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but > Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: > http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto > > So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I > have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing > server descriptor when that error occurs. > > You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a > new solution.
Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time.
I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed.
The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working.
So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1).
Solution 1: =========
Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case.
Solution 2: =========
Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead.
This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains...
My preference goes to 2.
WDYT? Any other solution?
Thanks -Vincent
PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests)
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
On May 17, 2013, at 4:55 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On May 17, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Mortagne < [email protected]
wrote:
I checked and the real issue is that this is half implemented so we just need to fix it.
Do we know how it goes through the testing without being noticed ?
I'm pretty sure we don't have that many XEM tests (which need to be moved to XE now btw)…
Something to improve for sure especially now.
On the manual test level, sorin/manuel have probably not tested with "exotic" urls and from the release notes it was probably hard to guess that they had to test this and no developer has replied to their email with this information when they asked what they should test for 5.0...
This seems to be something we may investigate to improve. I imagine that if nobody warn them, this is simply because the communication path is suboptimal. Maybe a more formal path, using an extension of the test report application could be an interesting solution.
well someone would still need to report it in the test report app! Which is even harder to do than what was done, i.e. sorin/manuel asked explicitly what they should test for 5.0... -Vincent
Thanks -Vincent
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
#-# [Since 5.0M2] #-# What to do when the requested wiki does not exist: #-# - 0: (default) serve the main wiki #-# - 1: display an error (customizable through wikidoesnotexist.vm or xwiki:XWiki.WikiDoesNotExist) # xwiki.virtual.failOnWikiDoesNotExist=0
So the option do exist.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Something already been decided to take care of this issue: by default when your wiki cannot be found you are supposed to fallback on main wiki.
Maybe Edy did not had time to finish it but I'm pretty sure I see the option about it in the xwiki.cfg.vm.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Denis and all, > > On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Vincent, >> >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol < [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi devs, >>> >>> Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles >>> when they install 5.0.1. >>> It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone. >>> >>> The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: >>> http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome >>> >>> And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a >>> regression). >>> >>> So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: >>> * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki. >>> >>> WDYT? >>> >> >> This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but >> Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: >> http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto >> >> So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I >> have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing >> server descriptor when that error occurs. >> >> You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a >> new solution. > > Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time. > > I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed. > > The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working. > > So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1). > > Solution 1: > ========= > > Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case. > > Solution 2: > ========= > > Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead. > > This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains... > > My preference goes to 2. > > WDYT? Any other solution? > > Thanks > -Vincent > > PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: > * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) > * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests) >
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On May 17, 2013, at 4:55 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On May 17, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Mortagne < [email protected]
wrote:
I checked and the real issue is that this is half implemented so we just need to fix it.
Do we know how it goes through the testing without being noticed ?
I'm pretty sure we don't have that many XEM tests (which need to be moved to XE now btw)…
Something to improve for sure especially now.
On the manual test level, sorin/manuel have probably not tested with "exotic" urls and from the release notes it was probably hard to guess that they had to test this and no developer has replied to their email with this information when they asked what they should test for 5.0...
This seems to be something we may investigate to improve. I imagine that if nobody warn them, this is simply because the communication path is suboptimal. Maybe a more formal path, using an extension of the test report application could be an interesting solution.
well someone would still need to report it in the test report app! Which is even harder to do than what was done, i.e. sorin/manuel asked explicitly what they should test for 5.0...
And I remember telling them that a lot of change had been done around multiwiki and wiki acces and that this needed to be tested so it did not worked too well. Anyway in that specific use case it's not very hard to write automated tests especially since XWiki is now always in vietual mode.
-Vincent
Thanks -Vincent
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
#-# [Since 5.0M2] #-# What to do when the requested wiki does not exist: #-# - 0: (default) serve the main wiki #-# - 1: display an error (customizable through wikidoesnotexist.vm or xwiki:XWiki.WikiDoesNotExist) # xwiki.virtual.failOnWikiDoesNotExist=0
So the option do exist.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote: > Something already been decided to take care of this issue: by default > when your wiki cannot be found you are supposed to fallback on main > wiki. > > Maybe Edy did not had time to finish it but I'm pretty sure I see the > option about it in the xwiki.cfg.vm. > > On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi Denis and all, >> >> On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Vincent, >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol < [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi devs, >>>> >>>> Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles >>>> when they install 5.0.1. >>>> It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone. >>>> >>>> The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: >>>> http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome >>>> >>>> And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a >>>> regression). >>>> >>>> So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: >>>> * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki. >>>> >>>> WDYT? >>>> >>> >>> This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but >>> Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: >>> http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto >>> >>> So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I >>> have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing >>> server descriptor when that error occurs. >>> >>> You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a >>> new solution. >> >> Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time. >> >> I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed. >> >> The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working. >> >> So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1). >> >> Solution 1: >> ========= >> >> Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case. >> >> Solution 2: >> ========= >> >> Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead. >> >> This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains... >> >> My preference goes to 2. >> >> WDYT? Any other solution? >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >> PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: >> * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) >> * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests) >>
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
Done http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9150. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
I checked and the real issue is that this is half implemented so we just need to fix it.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
#-# [Since 5.0M2] #-# What to do when the requested wiki does not exist: #-# - 0: (default) serve the main wiki #-# - 1: display an error (customizable through wikidoesnotexist.vm or xwiki:XWiki.WikiDoesNotExist) # xwiki.virtual.failOnWikiDoesNotExist=0
So the option do exist.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote:
Something already been decided to take care of this issue: by default when your wiki cannot be found you are supposed to fallback on main wiki.
Maybe Edy did not had time to finish it but I'm pretty sure I see the option about it in the xwiki.cfg.vm.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis and all,
On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles when they install 5.0.1. It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone.
The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a regression).
So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki.
WDYT?
This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto
So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing server descriptor when that error occurs.
You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a new solution.
Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time.
I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed.
The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working.
So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1).
Solution 1: =========
Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case.
Solution 2: =========
Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead.
This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains...
My preference goes to 2.
WDYT? Any other solution?
Thanks -Vincent
PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests)
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis and all,
On May 17, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that the virtual mode is on by default our users are having troubles when they install 5.0.1. It's the second time in 2 days that I have to help someone.
The issue is that users will want to use URLs such: http://myhost/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
And those URLs don't work anymore by default (which can be seen as a regression).
So I'm proposing the following change for 5.0.2/5.1M1: * If there's only 1 wiki configured then always point to the main wiki.
WDYT?
This has already been discussed. I was in favor of that behavior, but Edouard mention a potential confusing example in: http://markmail.org/message/ggjgqlfubjfyfxto
So, what has been decided is to provide a more explicit message, and what I have suggested is to have an easy way for an admin to create the missing server descriptor when that error occurs.
You should read the thread about this change in detail before proposing a new solution.
Thanks for pointing me to this thread which I hadn't read at the time.
I've now read it and I see that nothing was done on this point that you raised (as item 3) in that thread). Eduard said that it could be a problem for someone having 2 wikis and removing 1 and then all URLs would redirect to that main wiki instead of noticing that the wiki he's pointing to has been removed.
The difference with now and when that thread was written is the feedback we're getting from users trying XWiki 5.0+. We already have some user who have stopped using XWiki because they found it too complex to setup with this new virtual on by default and some others who spent hours scratching their heads to figure out why something worked before and is no longer working.
This was exactly what I fear when I raise this point this issue, I am very disappointed that nothing have been done. The very minimal was to have a better error reporting, and an easier way to fix up the situation.
So I really think we need to do something and quite fast (for 5.0.2 and 5.1M1).
+1
Solution 1: =========
Check if there's only 1 wiki and default to the main wiki whatever the URL in that case. It's still preferable to get a user started on xwiki and more important than the use case found by Edy which is an edge case.
IMO, it is still the simplest solution.
Solution 2: =========
Since the default config is path-based, stop fallbacking to domain-based when no descriptor is found and always fallback to the main wiki instead.
This does not look bad, but...
This option should solve the problem of getting started for users and at the same time not have the problem raised by Edy. The only downside would be users who had configured their subwiki in path-based (default) but with domains, which is not the normal way anyway: they should configure it in domain-based if they wish to use domains...
... I am not sure the "in path-based (default) but with domains" situation will be understand by users. I do not really understand it myself.
My preference goes to 2.
WDYT? Any other solution?
So, I stay on my first opinion: Either we have a direct fallback to the main wiki, or we have a clear error page, that for a wiki admin, provide a simple one click way to create the missing descriptor. I thought this was already done.
Thanks -Vincent
PS: The reason I suddenly took interest in this topic is because: * I've helped several users understand why they couldn't access their wiki in 1 week (I can think of 3) * I've recoded the new wiki descriptor module and updated the new url module to handle subwiki aliases and this recoded this algorithm. I'll be committing this soon now (just finishing some functional tests)
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
participants (3)
-
Denis Gervalle -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol