[xwiki-devs] Are we really sure we want 2 H1 for page rendering?
Hi, Following the discussion for what HTML element to use for Panels at http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552 , I'd like to reopen the 2 H1 solution we had agreed on. I want to be sure we still agree about it, especially in view of WCAG. Please read the following and tell me what you think: http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552?focusedCommentId=46201&page=com... Thanks -Vincent
I still am. Re panels, as I said in my comment, I think panels are self contained documents and should be structured accordingly. The panel should be valid (without skipped heading levels) both when displayed standalone and when it is included in a page. Therefor I'm for the H1 for panel title solution. Thanks, Marius Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Following the discussion for what HTML element to use for Panels at http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552 , I'd like to reopen the 2 H1 solution we had agreed on. I want to be sure we still agree about it, especially in view of WCAG.
Please read the following and tell me what you think: http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552?focusedCommentId=46201&page=com...
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Nov 12, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
I still am.
So you don't think it's a pb that the user hears "heading level 1: Welcome to your wiki" and then later on "header level 1: Spaces", etc?
Re panels, as I said in my comment, I think panels are self contained documents and should be structured accordingly. The panel should be valid (without skipped heading levels) both when displayed standalone and when it is included in a page. Therefor I'm for the H1 for panel title solution.
This is not about panels. Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Following the discussion for what HTML element to use for Panels at http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552 , I'd like to reopen the 2 H1 solution we had agreed on. I want to be sure we still agree about it, especially in view of WCAG.
Please read the following and tell me what you think: http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552?focusedCommentId=46201&page=com...
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 12, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
I still am.
So you don't think it's a pb that the user hears "heading level 1: Welcome to your wiki" and then later on "header level 1: Spaces", etc?
No. It's like hearing "Chapter: Welcome to your wiki" and then later "Chapter: Spaces". IMO the voice over should be improved to be more user friendly. Marius
Re panels, as I said in my comment, I think panels are self contained documents and should be structured accordingly. The panel should be valid (without skipped heading levels) both when displayed standalone and when it is included in a page. Therefor I'm for the H1 for panel title solution.
This is not about panels.
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Following the discussion for what HTML element to use for Panels at http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552 , I'd like to reopen the 2 H1 solution we had agreed on. I want to be sure we still agree about it, especially in view of WCAG.
Please read the following and tell me what you think: http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552?focusedCommentId=46201&page=com...
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Nov 12, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 12, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
I still am.
So you don't think it's a pb that the user hears "heading level 1: Welcome to your wiki" and then later on "header level 1: Spaces", etc?
No. It's like hearing "Chapter: Welcome to your wiki" and then later "Chapter: Spaces". IMO the voice over should be improved to be more user friendly.
The only pb is that the user will think the Spaces, Changes, etc (and this is true for any level 1 header in any doc) is not part of the document corresponding to the read title... -Vincent
Marius
Re panels, as I said in my comment, I think panels are self contained documents and should be structured accordingly. The panel should be valid (without skipped heading levels) both when displayed standalone and when it is included in a page. Therefor I'm for the H1 for panel title solution.
This is not about panels.
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Following the discussion for what HTML element to use for Panels at http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552 , I'd like to reopen the 2 H1 solution we had agreed on. I want to be sure we still agree about it, especially in view of WCAG.
Please read the following and tell me what you think: http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552?focusedCommentId=46201&page=com...
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
any decision we make, we need to make sure that beside WCAG, the headers are also displayed visually corect by the {toc} macro and that they are semantically correct. If we are looking at Main - visually we have a separation between the content and the panels. Within the content - since we have the big title "Welcome to your wiki" - it would look normal that "Spaces", "Recent Changes" to be H2. This is done now visually through CSS, but for audio readers they are all H1. So no hierarchy is showed in audio mode. If we are going to change the "Spaces" in H2, we need to modify the {{ toc }} macro to include the page title, otherwise it's gonna start with a simple bullet. Regarding an algorithm to transform all H1 within the content in H2 - I disagree. The user may need to add a H1 to the page. It's his decision if we doesn't care about WCAG. Another thing is that the Main actually includes "Spaces", "Recent Changes", "Tags" - and they are original H1, being separated pages. On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:50, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 12, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 12, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
I still am.
So you don't think it's a pb that the user hears "heading level 1: Welcome to your wiki" and then later on "header level 1: Spaces", etc?
No. It's like hearing "Chapter: Welcome to your wiki" and then later "Chapter: Spaces". IMO the voice over should be improved to be more user friendly.
The only pb is that the user will think the Spaces, Changes, etc (and this is true for any level 1 header in any doc) is not part of the document corresponding to the read title...
-Vincent
Marius
Re panels, as I said in my comment, I think panels are self contained documents and should be structured accordingly. The panel should be valid (without skipped heading levels) both when displayed standalone and when it is included in a page. Therefor I'm for the H1 for panel title solution.
This is not about panels.
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Following the discussion for what HTML element to use for Panels at http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552 , I'd like to reopen the 2 H1 solution we had agreed on. I want to be sure we still agree about it, especially in view of WCAG.
Please read the following and tell me what you think:
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552?focusedCommentId=46201&page=com...
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Nov 12, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:
any decision we make, we need to make sure that beside WCAG, the headers are also displayed visually corect by the {toc} macro and that they are semantically correct.
TOC macro is working fine already (we had modified it to make sure it did - starting at level 1).
If we are looking at Main - visually we have a separation between the content and the panels.
Within the content - since we have the big title "Welcome to your wiki" - it would look normal that "Spaces", "Recent Changes" to be H2. This is done now visually through CSS, but for audio readers they are all H1. So no hierarchy is showed in audio mode.
If we are going to change the "Spaces" in H2, we need to modify the {{ toc }} macro to include the page title, otherwise it's gonna start with a simple bullet.
Regarding an algorithm to transform all H1 within the content in H2 - I disagree. The user may need to add a H1 to the page. It's his decision if we doesn't care about WCAG.
The 2 paragraphs above contradict each other (unless there's a solution I haven't seen). You can have them both (unless you add some awful hacks - like using custom CSS inline styles which I'd be -1 to do) Just for the sake of playing the devil's advocate: why would a user want to add a H1? What he wants to add is a header level 1 not a H1. Similarly he's not allowed to do a lot of HTML things either since he's inside a fwk (he'll need to change the templates/skin for that). (And btw the user can always add whatever HTML he wants using the {{html clean="false"}} macro). -Vincent
Another thing is that the Main actually includes "Spaces", "Recent Changes", "Tags" - and they are original H1, being separated pages.
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:50, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
On Nov 12, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Nov 12, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
I still am.
So you don't think it's a pb that the user hears "heading level 1: Welcome to your wiki" and then later on "header level 1: Spaces", etc?
No. It's like hearing "Chapter: Welcome to your wiki" and then later "Chapter: Spaces". IMO the voice over should be improved to be more user friendly.
The only pb is that the user will think the Spaces, Changes, etc (and this is true for any level 1 header in any doc) is not part of the document corresponding to the read title...
-Vincent
Marius
Re panels, as I said in my comment, I think panels are self contained documents and should be structured accordingly. The panel should be valid (without skipped heading levels) both when displayed standalone and when it is included in a page. Therefor I'm for the H1 for panel title solution.
This is not about panels.
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Marius
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Following the discussion for what HTML element to use for Panels at http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552 , I'd like to reopen the 2 H1 solution we had agreed on. I want to be sure we still agree about it, especially in view of WCAG.
Please read the following and tell me what you think:
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-4552?focusedCommentId=46201&page=com...
Thanks -Vincent
participants (3)
-
Ecaterina Valica -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Vincent Massol