[xwiki-devs] Changes in the XEM distribution to workspace cause unexpected issue to existing XEM users and even new ones
Hi devs, I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an existing farm. I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be created without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains the workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this does not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since existing user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have been -1 if I would have been aware of this. Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences: - For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an error, since the creation of the new database could goes wrong. - For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement on there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the home page cause the creation of a new database. IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I propose that the creation of the new database requires at least a user confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be tried anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a other new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm user will have an easy way out. WDYT ? -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
Hi Denis, devs, Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC about this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM: Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" documentation section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of XEM. While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really care about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create one for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace module) depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of setup (and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up and going and you can create a new workspace immediately. This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for regular use cases. If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the attached template xar. If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options: 1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the imported xar. 2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm related modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by using the Extension Manager. Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis' proposal. I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user finishes the installation. However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every* first startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager plugin fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because XEM is started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have create database rights. In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for the results of the vote... Thanks, Eduard On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an existing farm. I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be created without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains the workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this does not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since existing user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have been -1 if I would have been aware of this.
Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
- For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an error, since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
- For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement on there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the home page cause the creation of a new database.
IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I propose that the creation of the new database requires at least a user confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be tried anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a other new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm user will have an easy way out.
WDYT ?
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, I see the problem which happens during this "transition phase [1]" while upgrading an existing XEM. Maybe we can mitigate it by checking if we are upgrading a farm or installing a fresh XEM. In the first case the Workspace template creation can be avoided (because it's clear that we are in a farm upgrade use case). And if you really want to mix the two use cases (farm + workspaces) you can always do it explicitly. If you are installing a fresh XEM, then no problem: we do it as it is now. Maybe we can improve the initial template creation by doing it from a JS popup on the first login instead, after that the login page has been loaded, instead of doing it directly. This would have the advantage of showing immediately some content after the login instead of waiting the (lengthy) creation process to complete before having a page displayed. WDYT? -Fabio [1] Transition phase towards a scenario where you will install Workspaces or a plain WikiManager using Extension Manager from an "empty" XE, depending on your needs. On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis, devs,
Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC about this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM:
Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" documentation section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of XEM.
While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really care about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create one for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace module) depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of setup (and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up and going and you can create a new workspace immediately. This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for regular use cases.
If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the attached template xar.
If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options: 1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the imported xar. 2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm related modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by using the Extension Manager.
Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis' proposal.
I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user finishes the installation.
However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every* first startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager plugin fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because XEM is started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have create database rights.
In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for the results of the vote...
Thanks, Eduard
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an existing farm. I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be created without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains the workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this does not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since existing user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have been -1 if I would have been aware of this.
Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
- For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an error, since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
- For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement on there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the home page cause the creation of a new database.
IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I propose that the creation of the new database requires at least a user confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be tried anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a other new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm user will have an easy way out.
WDYT ?
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Denis, devs,
Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC about this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM:
Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" documentation section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of XEM.
While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really care about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create one for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace module) depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of setup (and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up and going and you can create a new workspace immediately. This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for regular use cases.
If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the attached template xar.
But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how would it works ?
If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options: 1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the imported xar.
Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is implemented.
2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm related modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by using the Extension Manager.
This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff are left broken.
Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis' proposal.
I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user finishes the installation.
This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This could be, as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that explains the needs to create a template DB for workspace and provide an OK/Cancel before proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which could be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and to allow farm user to prevent that DB to be created. It should be a cancel once for all, creating the template would then be the work of WorkspaceManager.Install, with a similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all.
However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every* first startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach
Not warning, but a setup proposal.
displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager plugin fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because XEM is started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have create database rights.
And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in progress.
In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for the results of the vote...
I really would like as well.
Thanks, Eduard
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi devs,
I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an existing farm. I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be created without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains the workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this does not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since existing user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have been -1 if I would have been aware of this.
Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
- For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an error, since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
- For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement on there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the home page cause the creation of a new database.
IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I propose that the creation of the new database requires at least a user confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be tried anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a other new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm user will have an easy way out.
WDYT ?
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Denis, devs, > > > > Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC > about > > this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM: > > > > Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" > documentation > > section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of XEM. > > > > While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really > care > > about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create one > > for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace > module) > > depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of setup > > (and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing > > WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new > > homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up and > > going and you can create a new workspace immediately. > > This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for > > regular use cases. > > > > If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template > > instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and > > change the attached template xar. > > > > But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how would > it works ? > > Yes. 1. Go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the workspace-template.xar attachment with the one you`d like to use. 2. Go to WikiManager.WebHome and delete the default "workspacetemplate" subwiki template 3. Go back on the homepage or WorkspaceManager.Install to install your new template. > > > If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options: > > 1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the > > imported xar. > > > > Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is > implemented. > > > > 2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm related > > modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by > > using the Extension Manager. > > > > This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff are left > broken. > > Well, I should have also mentioned that, besides the farm related modules, you can also update the XE xar which would cover all the admin related stuff (administration application, activity stream, etc) that you mentioned :) > > > Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis' > proposal. > > > > I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the > > WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click > > there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create > > workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user > > finishes the installation. > > > > This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This could be, > as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that explains the needs to > create a template DB for workspace and provide an OK/Cancel before > proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which could > be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and to allow farm user to > prevent that DB to be created. It should be a cancel once for all, creating > the template would then be the work of WorkspaceManager.Install, with a > similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all. > > Sure, it sounds doable. Thanks, Eduard > > > However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every* first > > startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach > > > > Not warning, but a setup proposal. > > > > displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager plugin > > fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because XEM > is > > started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have create > > database rights. > > > > And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in progress. > > > > In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for the > > results of the vote... > > > > I really would like as well. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi devs, > > > > > > I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an > existing > > > farm. > > > I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be > created > > > without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains > the > > > workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this > does > > > not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since > existing > > > user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have > > been > > > -1 if I would have been aware of this. > > > > > > Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences: > > > > > > - For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the > > > server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an > error, > > > since the creation of the new database could goes wrong. > > > > > > - For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement > > on > > > there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and > > > again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the > > home > > > page cause the creation of a new database. > > > > > > IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I > propose > > > that the creation of the new database requires at least a user > > > confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be > tried > > > anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a > > other > > > new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm user > > > will have an easy way out. > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > -- > > > Denis Gervalle > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > eGuilde sarl - CTO > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > -- > Denis Gervalle > SOFTEC sa - CEO > eGuilde sarl - CTO > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:10, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Hi Denis, devs, > > > > > > Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC > > about > > > this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM: > > > > > > Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" > > documentation > > > section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of > XEM. > > > > > > While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really > > care > > > about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create > one > > > for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace > > module) > > > depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of > setup > > > (and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing > > > WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new > > > homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up > and > > > going and you can create a new workspace immediately. > > > This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for > > > regular use cases. > > > > > > If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template > > > instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and > > > change the attached template xar. > > > > > > > But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how would > > it works ? > > > > Yes. > 1. Go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the workspace-template.xar > attachment with the one you`d like to use. > 2. Go to WikiManager.WebHome and delete the default "workspacetemplate" > subwiki template > 3. Go back on the homepage or WorkspaceManager.Install to install your new > template. > Does not this seems more complex than it could be with a simple confirmation step ? > > > > > > If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options: > > > 1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the > > > imported xar. > > > > > > > Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is > > implemented. > > > > > > > 2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm > related > > > modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by > > > using the Extension Manager. > > > > > > > This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff are > left > > broken. > > > > Well, I should have also mentioned that, besides the farm related > modules, > you can also update the XE xar which would cover all the admin related > stuff (administration application, activity stream, etc) that you mentioned > :) > Sure, but how complex it is again when a simple confirmation would do ? > > > > > > Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis' > > proposal. > > > > > > I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the > > > WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click > > > there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create > > > workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user > > > finishes the installation. > > > > > > > This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This could > be, > > as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that explains the needs to > > create a template DB for workspace and provide an OK/Cancel before > > proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which > could > > be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and to allow farm user to > > prevent that DB to be created. It should be a cancel once for all, > creating > > the template would then be the work of WorkspaceManager.Install, with a > > similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all. > > > > > > > Sure, it sounds doable. > IMHO, this should be done before 3.3 release, else many will face the same issue I and Ludo have had without immediately understanding what it is happening. Could others tell us their opinion on this ASAP since the release is coming fast ? I am -1 to left it as it is now. > > Thanks, > Eduard > > > > > > However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every* first > > > startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach > > > > > > > Not warning, but a setup proposal. > > > > > > > displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager > plugin > > > fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because > XEM > > is > > > started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have > create > > > database rights. > > > > > > > And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in progress. > > > > > > > In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for > the > > > results of the vote... > > > > > > > I really would like as well. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eduard > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi devs, > > > > > > > > I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an > > existing > > > > farm. > > > > I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be > > created > > > > without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains > > the > > > > workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this > > does > > > > not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since > > existing > > > > user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have > > > been > > > > -1 if I would have been aware of this. > > > > > > > > Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences: > > > > > > > > - For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the > > > > server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an > > error, > > > > since the creation of the new database could goes wrong. > > > > > > > > - For existing user, a new database is created without there > agreement > > > on > > > > there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and > > > > again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the > > > home > > > > page cause the creation of a new database. > > > > > > > > IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I > > propose > > > > that the creation of the new database requires at least a user > > > > confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be > > tried > > > > anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a > > > other > > > > new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm > user > > > > will have an easy way out. > > > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > eGuilde sarl - CTO > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Denis Gervalle > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > eGuilde sarl - CTO > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO
I'm +1 to do it before the release and +1 for a very simple confirmation. I'm +0 for linking to an Install page which also should have a confirmation. IMHO we should never do "serious" stuff on a DB or else without a confirmation. Ludovic 2011/12/8 Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> > On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:10, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Denis, devs, > > > > > > > > Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC > > > about > > > > this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM: > > > > > > > > Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" > > > documentation > > > > section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of > > XEM. > > > > > > > > While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not > really > > > care > > > > about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create > > one > > > > for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace > > > module) > > > > depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of > > setup > > > > (and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing > > > > WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new > > > > homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up > > and > > > > going and you can create a new workspace immediately. > > > > This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for > > > > regular use cases. > > > > > > > > If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template > > > > instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and > > > > change the attached template xar. > > > > > > > > > > But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how > would > > > it works ? > > > > > > Yes. > > 1. Go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the workspace-template.xar > > attachment with the one you`d like to use. > > 2. Go to WikiManager.WebHome and delete the default "workspacetemplate" > > subwiki template > > 3. Go back on the homepage or WorkspaceManager.Install to install your > new > > template. > > > > Does not this seems more complex than it could be with a simple > confirmation step ? > > > > > > > > > > > If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options: > > > > 1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the > > > > imported xar. > > > > > > > > > > Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is > > > implemented. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm > > related > > > > modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or > by > > > > using the Extension Manager. > > > > > > > > > > This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff are > > left > > > broken. > > > > > > Well, I should have also mentioned that, besides the farm related > > modules, > > you can also update the XE xar which would cover all the admin related > > stuff (administration application, activity stream, etc) that you > mentioned > > :) > > > > Sure, but how complex it is again when a simple confirmation would do ? > > > > > > > > > > > Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis' > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the > > > > WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and > click > > > > there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create > > > > workspace page will also display this and will not work until the > user > > > > finishes the installation. > > > > > > > > > > This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This could > > be, > > > as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that explains the needs to > > > create a template DB for workspace and provide an OK/Cancel before > > > proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which > > could > > > be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and to allow farm user to > > > prevent that DB to be created. It should be a cancel once for all, > > creating > > > the template would then be the work of WorkspaceManager.Install, with a > > > similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it sounds doable. > > > > IMHO, this should be done before 3.3 release, else many will face the same > issue I and Ludo have had without immediately understanding what it is > happening. > > Could others tell us their opinion on this ASAP since the release is coming > fast ? > I am -1 to left it as it is now. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every* first > > > > startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach > > > > > > > > > > Not warning, but a setup proposal. > > > > > > > > > > displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager > > plugin > > > > fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because > > XEM > > > is > > > > started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have > > create > > > > database rights. > > > > > > > > > > And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in > progress. > > > > > > > > > > In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for > > the > > > > results of the vote... > > > > > > > > > > I really would like as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi devs, > > > > > > > > > > I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an > > > existing > > > > > farm. > > > > > I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be > > > created > > > > > without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to > contains > > > the > > > > > workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this > > > does > > > > > not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since > > > existing > > > > > user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would > have > > > > been > > > > > -1 if I would have been aware of this. > > > > > > > > > > Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences: > > > > > > > > > > - For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the > > > > > server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an > > > error, > > > > > since the creation of the new database could goes wrong. > > > > > > > > > > - For existing user, a new database is created without there > > agreement > > > > on > > > > > there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and > > > > > again... They really need to understand that the simple access to > the > > > > home > > > > > page cause the creation of a new database. > > > > > > > > > > IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I > > > propose > > > > > that the creation of the new database requires at least a user > > > > > confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be > > > tried > > > > > anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that > a > > > > other > > > > > new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm > > user > > > > > will have an easy way out. > > > > > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > > eGuilde sarl - CTO > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Denis Gervalle > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > eGuilde sarl - CTO > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > -- > Denis Gervalle > SOFTEC sa - CEO > eGuilde sarl - CTO > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > -- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
Done. Thanks, Eduard On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm +1 to do it before the release and +1 for a very simple confirmation. > I'm +0 for linking to an Install page which also should have a > confirmation. > > IMHO we should never do "serious" stuff on a DB or else without a > confirmation. > > Ludovic > > 2011/12/8 Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> > > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:10, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Denis, devs, > > > > > > > > > > Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on > IRC > > > > about > > > > > this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM: > > > > > > > > > > Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" > > > > documentation > > > > > section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version > of > > > XEM. > > > > > > > > > > While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not > > really > > > > care > > > > > about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to > create > > > one > > > > > for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace > > > > module) > > > > > depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of > > > setup > > > > > (and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing > > > > > WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new > > > > > homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is > up > > > and > > > > > going and you can create a new workspace immediately. > > > > > This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step > for > > > > > regular use cases. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base > template > > > > > instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install > and > > > > > change the attached template xar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how > > would > > > > it works ? > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > 1. Go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the workspace-template.xar > > > attachment with the one you`d like to use. > > > 2. Go to WikiManager.WebHome and delete the default "workspacetemplate" > > > subwiki template > > > 3. Go back on the homepage or WorkspaceManager.Install to install your > > new > > > template. > > > > > > > Does not this seems more complex than it could be with a simple > > confirmation step ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options: > > > > > 1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from > the > > > > > imported xar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is > > > > implemented. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm > > > related > > > > > modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or > > by > > > > > using the Extension Manager. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff > are > > > left > > > > broken. > > > > > > > > Well, I should have also mentioned that, besides the farm related > > > modules, > > > you can also update the XE xar which would cover all the admin related > > > stuff (administration application, activity stream, etc) that you > > mentioned > > > :) > > > > > > > Sure, but how complex it is again when a simple confirmation would do ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis' > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > > > I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to > the > > > > > WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and > > click > > > > > there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create > > > > > workspace page will also display this and will not work until the > > user > > > > > finishes the installation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This > could > > > be, > > > > as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that explains the needs > to > > > > create a template DB for workspace and provide an OK/Cancel before > > > > proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which > > > could > > > > be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and to allow farm user > to > > > > prevent that DB to be created. It should be a cancel once for all, > > > creating > > > > the template would then be the work of WorkspaceManager.Install, > with a > > > > similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it sounds doable. > > > > > > > IMHO, this should be done before 3.3 release, else many will face the > same > > issue I and Ludo have had without immediately understanding what it is > > happening. > > > > Could others tell us their opinion on this ASAP since the release is > coming > > fast ? > > I am -1 to left it as it is now. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > > > However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every* > first > > > > > startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing > approach > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not warning, but a setup proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager > > > plugin > > > > > fails to create the workspace template automatically, either > because > > > XEM > > > > is > > > > > started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have > > > create > > > > > database rights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in > > progress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting > for > > > the > > > > > results of the vote... > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really would like as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi devs, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an > > > > existing > > > > > > farm. > > > > > > I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be > > > > created > > > > > > without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to > > contains > > > > the > > > > > > workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, > this > > > > does > > > > > > not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since > > > > existing > > > > > > user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > -1 if I would have been aware of this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating the new database this way has for me some > inconveniences: > > > > > > > > > > > > - For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the > > > > > > server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an > > > > error, > > > > > > since the creation of the new database could goes wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > - For existing user, a new database is created without there > > > agreement > > > > > on > > > > > > there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again > and > > > > > > again... They really need to understand that the simple access to > > the > > > > > home > > > > > > page cause the creation of a new database. > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I > > > > propose > > > > > > that the creation of the new database requires at least a user > > > > > > confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not > be > > > > tried > > > > > > anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware > that > > a > > > > > other > > > > > > new database is under creation in case of error, and existing > farm > > > user > > > > > > will have an easy way out. > > > > > > > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > > > eGuilde sarl - CTO > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > eGuilde sarl - CTO > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Denis Gervalle > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > eGuilde sarl - CTO > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > -- > Ludovic Dubost > Founder and CEO > Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ > XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com > Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >
participants (4)
-
Denis Gervalle -
Eduard Moraru -
Fabio Mancinelli -
Ludovic Dubost