Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
I'm sure we can debate this all day. XWiki is very simple for end users to use. The actual purpose of the wiki (to allow people to create/edit/view articles/pages) is simple and straight-forward. I have everyone in our organisation using it successfully, and trust me, some of the end users should not be allowed near computers. But they managed to use the system for its purpose just fine. That doesn't mean that they can all install, configure, update and customise XWiki. I'll give you another analogy. XWiki is like a fine car. Cars are easy to use and drive by almost anyone. But that doesn't mean everyone can fix a car. Even if you know a little bit about how engines work and how to change the oil etc. Some jobs just have to be left to the professionals. XWiki is the same. Everyone can use it very easily. But when it comes to the advanced stuff, if you can't understand the excellent documentation, and no one can help you on the mailing list then the problem is not with XWiki. I consider myself a very competent engineer and developer, but there are some things that even I find quite advanced in XWiki. That goes to show how powerful it is (and what a great job the developers have done). Anyway I don’t think this is too constructive for the mailing list so I will stop here. You are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine (I think XWiki is great). If you don't like XWiki then I hope you find something that suits you better. That's the beauty of the internet and open source. You can always find something that suits you or make your own :) Kind regards, Mahomed -----Original Message----- From: users [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pascal BASTIEN Sent: 22 April 2015 22:23 To: XWiki Users; Maciej Fokt Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p Hello,I'm sorry, I'm not agree with you : a powerfull system must hide the systems complexity... And it is a wiki : it's mean if there aren't enough simple documentation then anybody (high ueser AND "normal people" with non computer vision) must write a page to contribute and make more available for "simple" user. :-) IMO we can use a simple xwiki and/or use higher level xwiki and/or a customized one. :-) Pascal B. De : Mahomed Hussein <[email protected]> À : Maciej Fokt <[email protected]>; XWiki Users <[email protected]> Envoyé le : Mercredi 22 avril 2015 18h37 Objet : Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p That's just the way technology is. The more powerful a system is, and the more options it has, then the more "technical" it is. If you want something that's easy for "no computer" people then I'm afraid you need to use something which has less features and power. A jumbo jet pilot needs to have more experience and knowledge than a Cessna pilot. The jumbo jet has more buttons and features and probably cannot be easily or ever flown by a Cessna pilot. That's just the way things are. XWiki actually has VERY good documentation (some of the best I've seen, and I've seen a lot of systems). It also has a helpful mailing list. Unfortunately it's not XWiki' s fault if you can't understand the documentation or the help that you have been offered several times here. I genuinely hope you manage to find a system that you like and works for you. Kind regards, Mahomed -----Original Message----- From: Maciej Fokt [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 22 April 2015 17:27 To: XWiki Users; Mahomed Hussein Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p No way... I have back to the 1.1 version and now i haven't settings... Why XWiki (good, big and helpful toll) can be so hard for "no computer" people... Thanks all for help, but XWiki is too hard for me, I think. W dniu .04.2015 o 18:00 Mahomed Hussein <[email protected]> pisze:
He has a problem with his install and I believe he wants to "reset" the system so it will be the same as when he installed it for the first time. I don't think this is possible without uninstalling, then searching and deleting all files/folders related and then installing from the beginning.
Kind regards,
-----Original Message----- From: users [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) Sent: 22 April 2015 16:30 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
I guess you could revert the WebPreferences history to version 1.1.
For example, in the Administration you have this URL: - "xwiki/bin/admin/XWiki/XWikiPreferences" You could do: - "xwiki/bin/view/XWiki/XWikiPreferences?viewer=history" and then on the version 1.1 use "Rollback".
Not sure if this is what you meant. Thanks, Caty
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Maciej Fokt <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
Is there option to return to the first contain and settings? I mean, I want to clear everything. I would like to back to the settings after installation.
Greetings, Maciek. _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Hi, First of all I'd like to thank Mahomed for the nice words he said about XWiki. I agree that we must try to make XWiki as simple as it can be for the end-users and, as Pascal said, one solution for this is to improve the documentation. The problem is that I'm not sure I completely understood what problem Maciek has (in order to improve it). Thanks, Caty On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Mahomed Hussein <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm sure we can debate this all day.
XWiki is very simple for end users to use. The actual purpose of the wiki (to allow people to create/edit/view articles/pages) is simple and straight-forward. I have everyone in our organisation using it successfully, and trust me, some of the end users should not be allowed near computers. But they managed to use the system for its purpose just fine. That doesn't mean that they can all install, configure, update and customise XWiki.
I'll give you another analogy. XWiki is like a fine car. Cars are easy to use and drive by almost anyone. But that doesn't mean everyone can fix a car. Even if you know a little bit about how engines work and how to change the oil etc. Some jobs just have to be left to the professionals. XWiki is the same. Everyone can use it very easily. But when it comes to the advanced stuff, if you can't understand the excellent documentation, and no one can help you on the mailing list then the problem is not with XWiki.
I consider myself a very competent engineer and developer, but there are some things that even I find quite advanced in XWiki. That goes to show how powerful it is (and what a great job the developers have done).
Anyway I don’t think this is too constructive for the mailing list so I will stop here. You are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine (I think XWiki is great). If you don't like XWiki then I hope you find something that suits you better. That's the beauty of the internet and open source. You can always find something that suits you or make your own :)
Kind regards,
Mahomed
-----Original Message----- From: users [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pascal BASTIEN Sent: 22 April 2015 22:23 To: XWiki Users; Maciej Fokt Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
Hello,I'm sorry, I'm not agree with you : a powerfull system must hide the systems complexity... And it is a wiki : it's mean if there aren't enough simple documentation then anybody (high ueser AND "normal people" with non computer vision) must write a page to contribute and make more available for "simple" user. :-) IMO we can use a simple xwiki and/or use higher level xwiki and/or a customized one. :-)
Pascal B.
De : Mahomed Hussein <[email protected]> À : Maciej Fokt <[email protected]>; XWiki Users <[email protected]> Envoyé le : Mercredi 22 avril 2015 18h37 Objet : Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
That's just the way technology is. The more powerful a system is, and the more options it has, then the more "technical" it is. If you want something that's easy for "no computer" people then I'm afraid you need to use something which has less features and power. A jumbo jet pilot needs to have more experience and knowledge than a Cessna pilot. The jumbo jet has more buttons and features and probably cannot be easily or ever flown by a Cessna pilot. That's just the way things are.
XWiki actually has VERY good documentation (some of the best I've seen, and I've seen a lot of systems). It also has a helpful mailing list. Unfortunately it's not XWiki' s fault if you can't understand the documentation or the help that you have been offered several times here.
I genuinely hope you manage to find a system that you like and works for you.
Kind regards,
Mahomed
-----Original Message----- From: Maciej Fokt [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 22 April 2015 17:27 To: XWiki Users; Mahomed Hussein Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
No way... I have back to the 1.1 version and now i haven't settings...
Why XWiki (good, big and helpful toll) can be so hard for "no computer" people...
Thanks all for help, but XWiki is too hard for me, I think.
W dniu .04.2015 o 18:00 Mahomed Hussein <[email protected]> pisze:
He has a problem with his install and I believe he wants to "reset" the system so it will be the same as when he installed it for the first time. I don't think this is possible without uninstalling, then searching and deleting all files/folders related and then installing from the beginning.
Kind regards,
-----Original Message----- From: users [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) Sent: 22 April 2015 16:30 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
I guess you could revert the WebPreferences history to version 1.1.
For example, in the Administration you have this URL: - "xwiki/bin/admin/XWiki/XWikiPreferences" You could do: - "xwiki/bin/view/XWiki/XWikiPreferences?viewer=history" and then on the version 1.1 use "Rollback".
Not sure if this is what you meant. Thanks, Caty
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Maciej Fokt <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
Is there option to return to the first contain and settings? I mean, I want to clear everything. I would like to back to the settings after installation.
Greetings, Maciek. _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Hi, See below. On 23 Apr 2015 at 11:57:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
Hi,
First of all I'd like to thank Mahomed for the nice words he said about XWiki.
I agree that we must try to make XWiki as simple as it can be for the end-users and, as Pascal said, one solution for this is to improve the documentation.
I personally find that improving the document is just a stop gap solution. Making it easier to use XWiki without documentation would be even better ;) For example in the use case at hand here, offering a way in the Admin to reinitialize the wiki completely would a cleaner solution than to document how to manually rollback some special pages. Of course we can (and should) do both since it’s faster to improve the documentation than to add new features/hide complexity/etc. I agree with Caty that I’m not sure what we are talking about here. It would be interesting for Maciek to tell us what specific area of XWiki should be improved according to him. Thanks -Vincent
The problem is that I'm not sure I completely understood what problem Maciek has (in order to improve it).
Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Mahomed Hussein wrote:
I'm sure we can debate this all day.
XWiki is very simple for end users to use. The actual purpose of the wiki (to allow people to create/edit/view articles/pages) is simple and straight-forward. I have everyone in our organisation using it successfully, and trust me, some of the end users should not be allowed near computers. But they managed to use the system for its purpose just fine. That doesn't mean that they can all install, configure, update and customise XWiki.
I'll give you another analogy. XWiki is like a fine car. Cars are easy to use and drive by almost anyone. But that doesn't mean everyone can fix a car. Even if you know a little bit about how engines work and how to change the oil etc. Some jobs just have to be left to the professionals. XWiki is the same. Everyone can use it very easily. But when it comes to the advanced stuff, if you can't understand the excellent documentation, and no one can help you on the mailing list then the problem is not with XWiki.
I consider myself a very competent engineer and developer, but there are some things that even I find quite advanced in XWiki. That goes to show how powerful it is (and what a great job the developers have done).
Anyway I don’t think this is too constructive for the mailing list so I will stop here. You are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine (I think XWiki is great). If you don't like XWiki then I hope you find something that suits you better. That's the beauty of the internet and open source. You can always find something that suits you or make your own :)
Kind regards,
Mahomed
-----Original Message----- From: users [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pascal BASTIEN Sent: 22 April 2015 22:23 To: XWiki Users; Maciej Fokt Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
Hello,I'm sorry, I'm not agree with you : a powerfull system must hide the systems complexity... And it is a wiki : it's mean if there aren't enough simple documentation then anybody (high ueser AND "normal people" with non computer vision) must write a page to contribute and make more available for "simple" user. :-) IMO we can use a simple xwiki and/or use higher level xwiki and/or a customized one. :-)
Pascal B.
De : Mahomed Hussein À : Maciej Fokt ; XWiki Users Envoyé le : Mercredi 22 avril 2015 18h37 Objet : Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
That's just the way technology is. The more powerful a system is, and the more options it has, then the more "technical" it is. If you want something that's easy for "no computer" people then I'm afraid you need to use something which has less features and power. A jumbo jet pilot needs to have more experience and knowledge than a Cessna pilot. The jumbo jet has more buttons and features and probably cannot be easily or ever flown by a Cessna pilot. That's just the way things are.
XWiki actually has VERY good documentation (some of the best I've seen, and I've seen a lot of systems). It also has a helpful mailing list. Unfortunately it's not XWiki' s fault if you can't understand the documentation or the help that you have been offered several times here.
I genuinely hope you manage to find a system that you like and works for you.
Kind regards,
Mahomed
-----Original Message----- From: Maciej Fokt [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 22 April 2015 17:27 To: XWiki Users; Mahomed Hussein Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
No way... I have back to the 1.1 version and now i haven't settings...
Why XWiki (good, big and helpful toll) can be so hard for "no computer" people...
Thanks all for help, but XWiki is too hard for me, I think.
W dniu .04.2015 o 18:00 Mahomed Hussein pisze:
He has a problem with his install and I believe he wants to "reset" the system so it will be the same as when he installed it for the first time. I don't think this is possible without uninstalling, then searching and deleting all files/folders related and then installing from the beginning.
Kind regards,
-----Original Message----- From: users [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) Sent: 22 April 2015 16:30 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Clear them all! :p
I guess you could revert the WebPreferences history to version 1.1.
For example, in the Administration you have this URL: - "xwiki/bin/admin/XWiki/XWikiPreferences" You could do: - "xwiki/bin/view/XWiki/XWikiPreferences?viewer=history" and then on the version 1.1 use "Rollback".
Not sure if this is what you meant. Thanks, Caty
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Maciej Fokt wrote:
Hello,
Is there option to return to the first contain and settings? I mean, I want to clear everything. I would like to back to the settings after installation.
Greetings, Maciek. _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Hello, Ok... I rolled back my wiki to 1.1 version and now... I can't administrate XWiki. I haven't options to change something. It's what I said ("XWiki is difficult for no computer users"). Deleting or rollback is easy but restore last settings is quite hard. I've lost half of spaces while I've been trying to make a backup. Now i can't import this back up files... I have nothing ;) Please don't compare me with XWiki rebel :p XWiki is a great tool but you know... Greetings, Maciek.
Hi Maciek, My impression is that you dived directly into XWiki without first understanding the idea behind it. That is OK, as long as you accept your choice. Right now we don`t have a wiki version, so you can not say "I rolled back my wiki to 1.1 version". What you actually did was to rollback a couple of pages (you decided which). In XWiki, a page can contain actual content and/or objects (which could also store "settings" for some applications or XWiki itself). The main page for XWiki settings is "XWiki.XWikiPreferences", as Caty already mentioned. If you want to restore/rollback settings, you need to do it for the applications you are interested in, but it's your choice. There is no "restore everything to initial settings" magic button. XWiki can not protect you from yourself. If you randomly press delete buttons and confirm without looking, your data will be lost. If you can not "administrate XWiki" right now, it sounds like you have badly edited/deleted the rights objects inside the XWiki.XWikiPreferences page. One solution for you would be to enable the "superadmin" backup user, log in with it and go to administration and fix the rights. You can find details how to enable this user in the AdminGuide [1]. Also, as a general suggestion, please try to spend a respectful amount of time when formulating your question and do not assume people can read your mind and know what it is that you are talking about. As a good exercise, put yourself in the shoes of a person reading your email, with no previous knowledge, and try to understand what you wrote and determine if it makes sense of if it contradicts itself. Of course, suggestions for improvements are more than welcomed. Without these suggestions, we do whatever we consider is best at the time and whatever we can do with our limited resources. Thanks, Eduard ---------- [1] http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Configuration#HEnablesup... On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Maciej Fokt <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
Ok... I rolled back my wiki to 1.1 version and now... I can't administrate XWiki. I haven't options to change something. It's what I said ("XWiki is difficult for no computer users"). Deleting or rollback is easy but restore last settings is quite hard. I've lost half of spaces while I've been trying to make a backup. Now i can't import this back up files... I have nothing ;)
Please don't compare me with XWiki rebel :p XWiki is a great tool but you know...
Greetings, Maciek. _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Ok ;) but now all my troubles aren't important. I reinstalled XWiki :) It was a good choice. All bugs disappeared. Big thanks for all of you for help! Regards, Maciek.
participants (5)
-
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Eduard Moraru -
Maciej Fokt -
Mahomed Hussein -
vincent＠massol.net