[xwiki-users] Documentation?
Hi all, Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site? Brandon Esbach Software Engineer Wireless Systems Segment Tyco Electronics 4 Eastgate Road Eastgate Little Island Co. Cork Ireland Tel: +353-21-4808305 Email: [email protected]
Hi, You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel. For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE. 2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
Brandon Esbach Software Engineer Wireless Systems Segment Tyco Electronics 4 Eastgate Road Eastgate Little Island Co. Cork Ireland Tel: +353-21-4808305 Email: [email protected] _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Thomas Mortagne
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too? Thanks -Vincent On Dec 19, 2007, at 12:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
Brandon Esbach Software Engineer Wireless Systems Segment Tyco Electronics 4 Eastgate Road Eastgate Little Island Co. Cork Ireland Tel: +353-21-4808305 Email: [email protected] _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g. http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links). IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented. I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one. Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-( BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
-- Víctor A. Rodríguez (http://www.bit-man.com.ar) El bit Fantasma (Bit-Man) - Algorithm junkie Perl Mongers Capital Federal (http://cafe.pm.org/) GNU/Linux User Group - FCEyN - UBA (http://glugcen.dc.uba.ar/
On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.
yes but I would say that's normal.
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.
Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products...
I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move? Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http://enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before. Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this? OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space). I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this? Thanks -Vincent
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
-- Víctor A. Rodríguez (http://www.bit-man.com.ar) El bit Fantasma (Bit-Man) - Algorithm junkie Perl Mongers Capital Federal (http://cafe.pm.org/) GNU/Linux User Group - FCEyN - UBA (http://glugcen.dc.uba.ar/
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once was. Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, anyway). Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.
yes but I would say that's normal.
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.
Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products...
I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move? Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http://enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before. Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this? OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space). I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this? Thanks -Vincent
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
-- Víctor A. Rodríguez (http://www.bit-man.com.ar) El bit Fantasma (Bit-Man) - Algorithm junkie Perl Mongers Capital Federal (http://cafe.pm.org/) GNU/Linux User Group - FCEyN - UBA (http://glugcen.dc.uba.ar/
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once was.
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;) What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, anyway).
The search isn't working so no wonder.... :)
Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?
There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else? Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.
yes but I would say that's normal.
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.
Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products...
I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move?
Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http://enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before.
Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this?
OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc
We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space).
I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?
Thanks -Vincent
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
-- Víctor A. Rodríguez (http://www.bit-man.com.ar) El bit Fantasma (Bit-Man) - Algorithm junkie Perl Mongers Capital Federal (http://cafe.pm.org/) GNU/Linux User Group - FCEyN - UBA (http://glugcen.dc.uba.ar/
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Ok, I know this comes off as nitpicking (not trying to, just sharing my own confusion).. To download Xwiki, I click "Download". All options are clearly labelled, and I know what I'm getting when I select one of them. I would have thought to get documentation, I click "Documentation".. Or even "Support", as with most other product sites. As an uninitiated user, I would have no clue what each of the options are. (Bear with me a moment for the comparison) As a comparison, I dropped into MediaWiki's homepage (mediawiki.org). First thoughts: boring and tedious. But any potential user can immediately find the distribution or the documetation. The whole process of finding/accessing takes a few seconds. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 13:15 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once was.
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;) What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, anyway).
The search isn't working so no wonder.... :)
Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?
There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else? Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.
yes but I would say that's normal.
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.
Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products...
I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move?
Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http://enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before.
Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this?
OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc
We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space).
I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?
Thanks -Vincent
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
-- Víctor A. Rodríguez (http://www.bit-man.com.ar) El bit Fantasma (Bit-Man) - Algorithm junkie Perl Mongers Capital Federal (http://cafe.pm.org/) GNU/Linux User Group - FCEyN - UBA (http://glugcen.dc.uba.ar/
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g. http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
+1 The structure of the web site changed, so that is still fine but it should not be too often. Or you should think about making redirections to the new urls. Users don't like to have to update their bookmarks too often.
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented. I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
+1 also. The new entry page beautiful but I think it lack informations. And the search need to work on all the sub-wikis, there is a problem at the moment.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
Vincent Massol wrote: (...)
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;)
What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
I totally agree with Brandon. I actually gave up looking for the documentation yesterday, thinking that it was probably not moved to the new site yet. Now I see that with a tiny bit more patience, I would have found it. Also, the fact the new site has not been crawled by google yet, made it more difficult :) (...)
Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?
There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else?
No, the Ecosystem panel does not have the word "Documentation" in it. In fact, it is not present at all on the front page, this is the main problem. You have links to FAQ, Support, References etc, but not the documentation. I suggest a "Documentation" link in the "General Links" panel. This should point to a page http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Documentation which refer to the documentation for the respective products. Regards Bjørnar
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Ok, I know this comes off as nitpicking (not trying to, just sharing my own confusion).. To download Xwiki, I click "Download". All options are clearly labelled, and I know what I'm getting when I select one of them.
That's because I've hadn't had the time yet to split the download page into several! (one for each product).
I would have thought to get documentation, I click "Documentation".. Or even "Support", as with most other product sites.
Could you please point out just one to me please so that I can see it in action?
As an uninitiated user, I would have no clue what each of the options are.
(Bear with me a moment for the comparison) As a comparison, I dropped into MediaWiki's homepage (mediawiki.org). First thoughts: boring and tedious. But any potential user can immediately find the distribution or the documetation. The whole process of finding/accessing takes a few seconds.
As I said this in my previous email this isn't a valid comparison since Mediawiki is just one product: a wiki. Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 13:15 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once was.
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;)
What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, anyway).
The search isn't working so no wonder.... :)
Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?
There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else?
Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.
yes but I would say that's normal.
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.
Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products...
I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move?
Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http://enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before.
Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this?
OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc
We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space).
I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?
Thanks -Vincent
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
-- Víctor A. Rodríguez (http://www.bit-man.com.ar) El bit Fantasma (Bit-Man) - Algorithm junkie Perl Mongers Capital Federal (http://cafe.pm.org/) GNU/Linux User Group - FCEyN - UBA (http://glugcen.dc.uba.ar/
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Nicolas Rodriguez wrote:
Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g. http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
+1 The structure of the web site changed, so that is still fine but it should not be too often. Or you should think about making redirections to the new urls. Users don't like to have to update their bookmarks too often.
I've done this for a lots of links already (I've put redirects to new places). But it's just too hard to do it for every single page. In the future renaming a page would offer this feature automatically.
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented. I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
+1 also. The new entry page beautiful but I think it lack informations. And the search need to work on all the sub-wikis, there is a problem at the moment.
I still have the feeling you guys are considering XWiki as a single Wiki product. It's not. It's more similar to Eclipse which has a platform and products based on it. -Vincent
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Bjørnar Libæk wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
(...)
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;)
What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
I totally agree with Brandon. I actually gave up looking for the documentation yesterday, thinking that it was probably not moved to the new site yet. Now I see that with a tiny bit more patience, I would have found it. Also, the fact the new site has not been crawled by google yet, made it more difficult :)
(...)
Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?
There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else?
No, the Ecosystem panel does not have the word "Documentation" in it. In fact, it is not present at all on the front page, this is the main problem. You have links to FAQ, Support, References etc, but not the documentation. I suggest a "Documentation" link in the "General Links" panel. This should point to a page http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Documentation which refer to the documentation for the respective products.
Yes that's possible (even if I still don't understand why it's needed). What beats me is why you'd want to look for documentation even before knowing what product you want to find documentation for... -Vincent
Hi, On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Bjørnar Libæk wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
(...)
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;)
What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
I totally agree with Brandon. I actually gave up looking for the documentation yesterday, thinking that it was probably not moved to the new site yet.
I'd like more details on this. What product were you looking documentation for when you gave up? Thanks -Vincent [snip] PS: BTW with some many of you having issues with the new site, there's probably something wrong with it (would be interesting to know how many newcomers have an issue with it compared to people who knew the old site). So far all I'm hearing is that you guys seem to consider XWiki as a single product and not a platform. This is probably the hardest to understand for you if you were coming from the old XWiki.org since this aspect wasn't shown at all.
Could you please point out just one to me please so that I can see it in action? There's a lot of them, I agree most of those I use are either single-product support sites.
But here's one, for example: http://www.adobe.com/ The layout there is the kinda thing I'd think would work well for xwiki. Just hover over support to see a link for documentation, this takes you to a documentation area. This approach might work for xwiki's diverse product range as well, as then you pick your product for more support. Err, also I wanted to point out, I'm just sharing a concern here. My intention is to just clear up potential confusion for new users (if existing users are confused, I imagine new ones will be more so). -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 14:51 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Ok, I know this comes off as nitpicking (not trying to, just sharing my own confusion).. To download Xwiki, I click "Download". All options are clearly labelled, and I know what I'm getting when I select one of them.
That's because I've hadn't had the time yet to split the download page into several! (one for each product).
I would have thought to get documentation, I click "Documentation".. Or even "Support", as with most other product sites.
As an uninitiated user, I would have no clue what each of the options are.
(Bear with me a moment for the comparison) As a comparison, I dropped into MediaWiki's homepage (mediawiki.org). First thoughts: boring and tedious. But any potential user can immediately find the distribution or the documetation. The whole process of finding/accessing takes a few seconds.
As I said this in my previous email this isn't a valid comparison since Mediawiki is just one product: a wiki. Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 13:15 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once was.
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;)
What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, anyway).
The search isn't working so no wonder.... :)
Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?
There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else?
Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.
yes but I would say that's normal.
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.
Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products...
I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move?
Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http://enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before.
Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this?
OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc
We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space).
I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?
Thanks -Vincent
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
-- Víctor A. Rodríguez (http://www.bit-man.com.ar) El bit Fantasma (Bit-Man) - Algorithm junkie Perl Mongers Capital Federal (http://cafe.pm.org/) GNU/Linux User Group - FCEyN - UBA (http://glugcen.dc.uba.ar/
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
BTW with some many of you having issues with the new site, there's probably something wrong with it (would be interesting to know how many newcomers have an issue with it compared to people who knew the old site). Actually, I dig the new site. Skin-wise, it's a lot smoother than albatross; and yeah it's good to see a solid move forward to highlight the new xwiki concept.
Layout-wise, it's almost perfect. The only thing I'm uneasy about is, how easy it is to download any product; but not finding out how to use it best. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 14:57 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? Hi, On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Bjørnar Libæk wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
(...)
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;)
What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
I totally agree with Brandon. I actually gave up looking for the documentation yesterday, thinking that it was probably not moved to the new site yet.
I'd like more details on this. What product were you looking documentation for when you gave up? Thanks -Vincent [snip] PS: BTW with some many of you having issues with the new site, there's probably something wrong with it (would be interesting to know how many newcomers have an issue with it compared to people who knew the old site). So far all I'm hearing is that you guys seem to consider XWiki as a single product and not a platform. This is probably the hardest to understand for you if you were coming from the old XWiki.org since this aspect wasn't shown at all. _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
On Dec 19, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Could you please point out just one to me please so that I can see it in action? There's a lot of them, I agree most of those I use are either single- product support sites.
But here's one, for example: http://www.adobe.com/ The layout there is the kinda thing I'd think would work well for xwiki. Just hover over support to see a link for documentation, this takes you to a documentation area.
And on that page it asks you to choose a product. Yes I can see this working so that users can navigate from 2 angles: 1) by product they're interested in 2) by type of information they're looking for (they'll be asked to choose the product in that case)
This approach might work for xwiki's diverse product range as well, as then you pick your product for more support.
Err, also I wanted to point out, I'm just sharing a concern here. My intention is to just clear up potential confusion for new users (if existing users are confused, I imagine new ones will be more so).
Thanks for sharing this. It helps. -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 14:51 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Ok, I know this comes off as nitpicking (not trying to, just sharing my own confusion).. To download Xwiki, I click "Download". All options are clearly labelled, and I know what I'm getting when I select one of them.
That's because I've hadn't had the time yet to split the download page into several! (one for each product).
I would have thought to get documentation, I click "Documentation".. Or even "Support", as with most other product sites.
As an uninitiated user, I would have no clue what each of the options are.
(Bear with me a moment for the comparison) As a comparison, I dropped into MediaWiki's homepage (mediawiki.org). First thoughts: boring and tedious. But any potential user can immediately find the distribution or the documetation. The whole process of finding/accessing takes a few seconds.
As I said this in my previous email this isn't a valid comparison since Mediawiki is just one product: a wiki.
Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 13:15 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once was.
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;)
What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, anyway).
The search isn't working so no wonder.... :)
Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?
There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else?
Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.
yes but I would say that's normal.
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.
Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products...
I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move?
Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http://enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before.
Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this?
OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc
We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space).
I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?
Thanks -Vincent
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
> > Hi all, > > Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find > any > links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site? >
-- Víctor A. Rodríguez (http://www.bit-man.com.ar) El bit Fantasma (Bit-Man) - Algorithm junkie Perl Mongers Capital Federal (http://cafe.pm.org/) GNU/Linux User Group - FCEyN - UBA (http://glugcen.dc.uba.ar/
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Vincent Massol wrote: (...)
I totally agree with Brandon. I actually gave up looking for the documentation yesterday, thinking that it was probably not moved to the new site yet.
I'd like more details on this. What product were you looking documentation for when you gave up?
XWiki Enterprice. (...)
So far all I'm hearing is that you guys seem to consider XWiki as a single product and not a platform. This is probably the hardest to understand for you if you were coming from the old XWiki.org since this aspect wasn't shown at all.
Right on! I was not aware of this change. I wouldn't say it is that hard to understand, though;) Bjørnar
Vincent Massol wrote: (...)
I still have the feeling you guys are considering XWiki as a single Wiki product. It's not. It's more similar to Eclipse which has a platform and products based on it.
Then I think this should be made even more clear on the front page. Many of the links are related to xwiki enterprise, which is confusing: 1) In the XWiki Ecosystem panel, there is a link "Playground (test drive XWiki)". This should probably be "test drive XWiki Enterprise". In fact, maybe it shouldn't be there at all, but appear when you navigate to the enterprise site (in the Quick Links panel, which maybe should be titled "XWiki Enterprise"). 2) In the General Links panel, same goes for screenshots. As far as I can see, all screenshots are from Enterprise instances. 3) Isn't the FAQ really just about the enterprise product? When searching the FAQ page, the words "platform", "manager" and watch doesn't appear once. It fits well into the "Quick Links" panel on the enterprise site. No wonder we're confused ;) Bjørnar
Guys, I've just added a new "Documentation" link in the General Links Panel. It points to: http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ProductDocumentation Hope you like it. Thanks all for your input on this :) -Vincent On Dec 19, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Dec 19, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Could you please point out just one to me please so that I can see it in action? There's a lot of them, I agree most of those I use are either single- product support sites.
But here's one, for example: http://www.adobe.com/ The layout there is the kinda thing I'd think would work well for xwiki. Just hover over support to see a link for documentation, this takes you to a documentation area.
And on that page it asks you to choose a product.
Yes I can see this working so that users can navigate from 2 angles: 1) by product they're interested in 2) by type of information they're looking for (they'll be asked to choose the product in that case)
This approach might work for xwiki's diverse product range as well, as then you pick your product for more support.
Err, also I wanted to point out, I'm just sharing a concern here. My intention is to just clear up potential confusion for new users (if existing users are confused, I imagine new ones will be more so).
Thanks for sharing this. It helps.
-Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 14:51 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Ok, I know this comes off as nitpicking (not trying to, just sharing my own confusion).. To download Xwiki, I click "Download". All options are clearly labelled, and I know what I'm getting when I select one of them.
That's because I've hadn't had the time yet to split the download page into several! (one for each product).
I would have thought to get documentation, I click "Documentation".. Or even "Support", as with most other product sites.
As an uninitiated user, I would have no clue what each of the options are.
(Bear with me a moment for the comparison) As a comparison, I dropped into MediaWiki's homepage (mediawiki.org). First thoughts: boring and tedious. But any potential user can immediately find the distribution or the documetation. The whole process of finding/accessing takes a few seconds.
As I said this in my previous email this isn't a valid comparison since Mediawiki is just one product: a wiki.
Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 13:15 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once was.
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;)
What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, anyway).
The search isn't working so no wonder.... :)
Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?
There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else?
Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.
yes but I would say that's normal.
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.
Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products...
I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move?
Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http:// enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before.
Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this?
OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc
We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space).
I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?
Thanks -Vincent
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
> Hi, > > You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki > Ecosystem" > panel. > > For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you > click > on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to > http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you > find a > "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE. > > 2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>: > >> >> Hi all, >> >> Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find >> any >> links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site? >>
PMFJI, What is the "XWIKI Enterprise" product, and how does it differ from previous XWIKIs? Has there been any change in businessmodel, and is XWIKI in the process of becoming a commercial product? Best regards, Robert -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19. desember 2007 17:36 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? Guys, I've just added a new "Documentation" link in the General Links Panel. It points to: http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ProductDocumentation Hope you like it. Thanks all for your input on this :) -Vincent On Dec 19, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Dec 19, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Could you please point out just one to me please so that I can see it in action? There's a lot of them, I agree most of those I use are either single- product support sites.
But here's one, for example: http://www.adobe.com/ The layout there is the kinda thing I'd think would work well for xwiki. Just hover over support to see a link for documentation, this takes you to a documentation area.
And on that page it asks you to choose a product.
Yes I can see this working so that users can navigate from 2 angles: 1) by product they're interested in 2) by type of information they're looking for (they'll be asked to choose the product in that case)
This approach might work for xwiki's diverse product range as well, as then you pick your product for more support.
Err, also I wanted to point out, I'm just sharing a concern here. My intention is to just clear up potential confusion for new users (if existing users are confused, I imagine new ones will be more so).
Thanks for sharing this. It helps.
-Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 14:51 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Ok, I know this comes off as nitpicking (not trying to, just sharing my own confusion).. To download Xwiki, I click "Download". All options are clearly labelled, and I know what I'm getting when I select one of them.
That's because I've hadn't had the time yet to split the download page into several! (one for each product).
I would have thought to get documentation, I click "Documentation".. Or even "Support", as with most other product sites.
As an uninitiated user, I would have no clue what each of the options are.
(Bear with me a moment for the comparison) As a comparison, I dropped into MediaWiki's homepage (mediawiki.org). First thoughts: boring and tedious. But any potential user can immediately find the distribution or the documetation. The whole process of finding/accessing takes a few seconds.
As I said this in my previous email this isn't a valid comparison since Mediawiki is just one product: a wiki.
Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 13:15 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once was.
I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;)
What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.
Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, anyway).
The search isn't working so no wonder.... :)
Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?
There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else?
Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.
yes but I would say that's normal.
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).
IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.
Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products...
I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one.
Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(
You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move?
Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http:// enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before.
Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this?
OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc
We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space).
I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?
Thanks -Vincent
BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve.
> Hi, > > You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki > Ecosystem" > panel. > > For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you > click > on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to > http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you > find a > "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE. > > 2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>: > >> >> Hi all, >> >> Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find >> any >> links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site? >>
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
On Dec 19, 2007, at 5:26 PM, Bjørnar Libæk wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
(...)
I still have the feeling you guys are considering XWiki as a single Wiki product. It's not. It's more similar to Eclipse which has a platform and products based on it.
Then I think this should be made even more clear on the front page. Many of the links are related to xwiki enterprise, which is confusing:
1) In the XWiki Ecosystem panel, there is a link "Playground (test drive XWiki)". This should probably be "test drive XWiki Enterprise". In fact, maybe it shouldn't be there at all, but appear when you navigate to the enterprise site (in the Quick Links panel, which maybe should be titled "XWiki Enterprise").
2) In the General Links panel, same goes for screenshots. As far as I can see, all screenshots are from Enterprise instances.
3) Isn't the FAQ really just about the enterprise product? When searching the FAQ page, the words "platform", "manager" and watch doesn't appear once. It fits well into the "Quick Links" panel on the enterprise site.
No wonder we're confused ;)
I agree with all these points. I'll work on ironing this out in the coming week(s). The reason it's not perfect is easy to understand: * it's a transition from XE only to XE + platform + other products so lots of links are coming from XE * I was under pressure to finish a first version of xwiki.org before Javapolis 2007. I'm just back from Javapolis and I'll now slowly tune and finish what I didn't have time to finish. For 1), 2 other solutions: a) we could change the "Download" image/link to "Download / Test" and move the playground link in there somewhere. b) create a page that lists all running instances of xwiki products that can be used for testing. For 2), the screenshots are coming from the Refrences page and the idea is to add a Product information to each Reference page. For 3), same, a Product field should be added. Thanks -Vincent
many of the old links have been broken or moved to other sub wikis. saying the old xwiki.org has now been moved to enterprise.xwiki.org is not correct as some of the links have been moved to dev.xwiki.org. I think on main page of xwiki.org all the sub wikis should be listed mentioning what each is used for. each sub wiki should have its own quick links sections on the right. also I see that in some sub wiki the links on the right pane points to the another sub wiki. Like enterprise as links to platform etc .. I think we need much better organization then we have at present. Thanks Sachin vmassol wrote:
I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?
Thanks -Vincent
On Dec 19, 2007, at 12:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
Hi,
You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" panel.
For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE.
2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <[email protected]>:
Hi all,
Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site?
Brandon Esbach Software Engineer Wireless Systems Segment Tyco Electronics 4 Eastgate Road Eastgate Little Island Co. Cork Ireland Tel: +353-21-4808305 Email: [email protected] _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Documentation--tp14414869p14420756.html Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?
I would say that it might be difficult to see the differences between the products. I mean, when do we have to look into "Enterprise" and when do we have to look into "Platform"? It is not always very clear to guess which features belong to what (for a newcomer, at least, but isn't the newcomer the target of the website?). So maybe what should be explored is a way to make more clear, in one page, what are exactly the differences between the products. Hope this helps...
On Dec 20, 2007, at 12:32 PM, Karim-Pierre Maalej wrote:
I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?
I would say that it might be difficult to see the differences between the products. I mean, when do we have to look into "Enterprise" and when do we have to look into "Platform"? It is not always very clear to guess which features belong to what (for a newcomer, at least, but isn't the newcomer the target of the website?).
I would say that a newcomer shouldn't look at platform. He should look at XE, XEM, Watch. BTW the links and docs from the platform are seamlessly integrated in the doc for XE. So for example the dev guide and the admin guide are listed in XE and will lead you transparently to the platform when you click on them.
So maybe what should be explored is a way to make more clear, in one page, what are exactly the differences between the products.
This is the goal of the home page. What's missing do you think? Thanks -Vincent
I would say that a newcomer shouldn't look at platform. He should look at XE, XEM, Watch.
Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide. So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!' Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2). Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform? If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform.
This is the goal of the home page. What's missing do you think?
Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product.
Hi, -The topics discussed below, touches directly into what we're dealing with right now: We are a telecoms operator and need to install wikis, both for internal use (product development, documentation, infocenter) and for external (customer) use. We haven't decided which wiki to install, but are looking at DokuWiki, Xwiki, TWiki, Mediawiki and others. Given that we don't quite understand which Xwiki to install, and why, and also if Xwiki Enterprise is a commercial product or not, may lead us to erroneously remove Xwiki from the shortlist... Best regards, Robert Hercz Teletopia Group -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karim-Pierre Maalej Sent: 20. desember 2007 13:11 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
I would say that a newcomer shouldn't look at platform. He should look at XE, XEM, Watch.
Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide. So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!' Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2). Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform? If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform.
This is the goal of the home page. What's missing do you think?
Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product. _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Hi Robert, On Dec 20, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Robert Hercz wrote:
Hi,
-The topics discussed below, touches directly into what we're dealing with right now:
We are a telecoms operator and need to install wikis, both for internal use (product development, documentation, infocenter) and for external (customer) use.
We haven't decided which wiki to install, but are looking at DokuWiki, Xwiki, TWiki, Mediawiki and others.
Given that we don't quite understand which Xwiki to install, and why, and also if Xwiki Enterprise is a commercial product or not, may lead us to erroneously remove Xwiki from the shortlist...
Re the different product, here's a copy paste from the home page of xwiki.org: * XE: "A fully-featured wiki for the Enterprise. It's also a second generation wiki offering the ability to install and develop small applications inside wiki pages." * XEM: "An application to manage a farm of wikis, allowing large-scale organization and massive scalability." * Watch: "A social RSS reader allowing groups to collaboratively follow information news and filter it." Without knowing your need I can't tell you which one is more suited for you... Re the commercial product, as is stated on xwiki.org all the XWiki project sources are open source and under the LGPL license. Now if you want professional support, services, training, etc then this can be provided by XPertNet the company which started XWiki. What is missing that you'd like to see on the web site? Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karim-Pierre Maalej Sent: 20. desember 2007 13:11 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
I would say that a newcomer shouldn't look at platform. He should look at XE, XEM, Watch.
Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide.
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2).
Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform? If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform.
This is the goal of the home page. What's missing do you think?
Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product.
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Pardon my ignorance .. I thought that XEM and Watch worked by running on top of XE? Can they run independantly as well? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 20 December 2007 13:25 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? Hi Robert, On Dec 20, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Robert Hercz wrote:
Hi,
-The topics discussed below, touches directly into what we're dealing with right now:
We are a telecoms operator and need to install wikis, both for internal use (product development, documentation, infocenter) and for external (customer) use.
We haven't decided which wiki to install, but are looking at DokuWiki,
Xwiki, TWiki, Mediawiki and others.
Given that we don't quite understand which Xwiki to install, and why, and also if Xwiki Enterprise is a commercial product or not, may lead us to erroneously remove Xwiki from the shortlist...
Re the different product, here's a copy paste from the home page of xwiki.org: * XE: "A fully-featured wiki for the Enterprise. It's also a second generation wiki offering the ability to install and develop small applications inside wiki pages." * XEM: "An application to manage a farm of wikis, allowing large-scale organization and massive scalability." * Watch: "A social RSS reader allowing groups to collaboratively follow information news and filter it." Without knowing your need I can't tell you which one is more suited for you... Re the commercial product, as is stated on xwiki.org all the XWiki project sources are open source and under the LGPL license. Now if you want professional support, services, training, etc then this can be provided by XPertNet the company which started XWiki. What is missing that you'd like to see on the web site? Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karim-Pierre Maalej Sent: 20. desember 2007 13:11 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
I would say that a newcomer shouldn't look at platform. He should look at XE, XEM, Watch.
Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install
the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide.
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard
about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2).
Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where
should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform? If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform.
This is the goal of the home page. What's missing do you think?
Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product.
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
On Dec 20, 2007, at 1:10 PM, Karim-Pierre Maalej wrote:
I would say that a newcomer shouldn't look at platform. He should look at XE, XEM, Watch.
Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide.
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
The Curriki product doesn't exist yet. Right now Curriki is a specific project and not a general purpose product.
Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2).
Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform?
Both! Try it, you'll find how to do this by navigating either from XE or from the Platform (or from other products for that matter).
If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform.
No, it's there in XE... :) Here's the link: http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Features
This is the goal of the home page. What's missing do you think?
Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product.
Yes good idea. We almost have this already. If you check the code zone, for example the applications, it tells with which product each is bundled with. As for the platform features they're are available in all products since it's the platform. I'll work on adding a consolidated page for this in the future. Thanks -Vincent
On Dec 20, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Pardon my ignorance .. I thought that XEM and Watch worked by running on top of XE? Can they run independantly as well?
Yes. There are standalone distributions for them. What is true though is that the XEM and Watch distributions do include several of the default pages bundled with XE too. Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 20 December 2007 13:25 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
Hi Robert,
On Dec 20, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Robert Hercz wrote:
Hi,
-The topics discussed below, touches directly into what we're dealing with right now:
We are a telecoms operator and need to install wikis, both for internal use (product development, documentation, infocenter) and for external (customer) use.
We haven't decided which wiki to install, but are looking at DokuWiki,
Xwiki, TWiki, Mediawiki and others.
Given that we don't quite understand which Xwiki to install, and why, and also if Xwiki Enterprise is a commercial product or not, may lead us to erroneously remove Xwiki from the shortlist...
Re the different product, here's a copy paste from the home page of xwiki.org:
* XE: "A fully-featured wiki for the Enterprise. It's also a second generation wiki offering the ability to install and develop small applications inside wiki pages." * XEM: "An application to manage a farm of wikis, allowing large-scale organization and massive scalability." * Watch: "A social RSS reader allowing groups to collaboratively follow information news and filter it."
Without knowing your need I can't tell you which one is more suited for you...
Re the commercial product, as is stated on xwiki.org all the XWiki project sources are open source and under the LGPL license. Now if you want professional support, services, training, etc then this can be provided by XPertNet the company which started XWiki.
What is missing that you'd like to see on the web site?
Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karim-Pierre Maalej Sent: 20. desember 2007 13:11 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation?
I would say that a newcomer shouldn't look at platform. He should look at XE, XEM, Watch.
Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install
the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide.
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard
about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2).
Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where
should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform? If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform.
This is the goal of the home page. What's missing do you think?
Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product.
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide.
This shows the fact that most "old" users now inherited an erroneous concept: "xwiki". At first, you could talk about XWiki as something you can use for making a website. Now, what you said is almost equivalent with: "Okay, let's say someone told you about apache to host your website, giving you some examples like wikipedia. You are interested and want to see if it can fit your needs. You'll want to know how you can install the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide." Here, almost everyone knows that it shouldn't say "apache", but "apache http server", as "apache" is no longer a valid alias for the http server. But this confusion was happening a few years ago for apache, too, when it was nothing more than THE http server, and not a foundation with tens of famous projects. Still, some continue to say "apache" when they talk about httpd, and some continue to say "XWiki" when they talk about XWikiPlatform or XE. Speaking about apache, there is no Documentation link on www.apache.org, so I only agree with the Documentation link on www.xwiki.org for historical purposes.
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
+1, we're mostly documenting features and OpenSource development practices. A complete tutorial should be written; for the moment, there are some articles about setting up XWiki, they used to be linked somewhere on xwiki.org.
Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2).
Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform? If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform.
This is the goal of the home page. What's missing do you think?
Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product.
Sergiu
The Curriki product doesn't exist yet. Right now Curriki is a specific project and not a general purpose product.
Ok, replace Curriki by whatever xwiki-based website.
What is missing that you'd like to see on the web site?
If everything is already here and still so many people have some trouble to find the info they need, then there's obviously a problem somewhere... It may be clear from your point of view, you may very well feel that everything is there, not missing any information, and still it won't be useful because it's not clear for end-users. So maybe it's not a matter of "what's missing?", but rather of "how to make it clear?" That's why I suggested a diagram, that would tell you 'this is the common code, it contains this ans this and this feature, and this is the code specific to this app, that builds upon the common code', etc. Just like the diagram you would draw to explain how is designed an operating system : kernel, libraries and apis, tools, gui... We shall remember that it's not what is actually there that matters, but what the user perceives. If he does not see the info, then it's exactly as if it was not there at all. You might build the most beautiful theme park in the world, if nobody understands how to go there... they just won't go. Even if it's written on page 284 of the manual ;-)
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
+1, we're mostly documenting features and OpenSource development practices. A complete tutorial should be written; for the moment, there are some articles about setting up XWiki, they used to be linked somewhere on xwiki.org.
To give you a more actual illustration, I am currently working on designing a skin for XWiki for the iPhone. It takes me quite a lot of time because I have to figure out how all this thing works (the Skins section only suggests tweaks to existing skins, and not redesigning a whole new one from scratch). I intend to write a detailed howto based on my experience when I get to it, but for the moment I am right in the middle of the jungle, exploring and slowly drawing a map of the continent around me :-)
Karim-Pierre Maalej wrote:
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!' +1, we're mostly documenting features and OpenSource development practices. A complete tutorial should be written; for the moment, there are some articles about setting up XWiki, they used to be linked somewhere on xwiki.org.
To give you a more actual illustration, I am currently working on designing a skin for XWiki for the iPhone.
Great! Perhaps you would like to contribute the skin, too, when it is finalized?
It takes me quite a lot of time because I have to figure out how all this thing works (the Skins section only suggests tweaks to existing skins, and not redesigning a whole new one from scratch).
I intend to write a detailed howto based on my experience when I get to it, but for the moment I am right in the middle of the jungle, exploring and slowly drawing a map of the continent around me :-)
Also see http://www.nabble.com/Creating-my-own-skin-to9476606.html#a9493972 and the related messages, perhaps they can help a bit. Sergiu
Great! Perhaps you would like to contribute the skin, too, when it is finalized?
Yes of course, I am working on it within the XWiki Concerto project, so it is not for private use, but for the benefit of the community ;-)
Also see http://www.nabble.com/Creating-my-own-skin-to9476606.html#a9493972 and the related messages, perhaps they can help a bit.
Thanks!
Karim-Pierre Maalej wrote:
Great! Perhaps you would like to contribute the skin, too, when it is finalized?
Yes of course, I am working on it within the XWiki Concerto project, so it is not for private use, but for the benefit of the community ;-)
Also see http://www.nabble.com/Creating-my-own-skin-to9476606.html#a9493972 and the related messages, perhaps they can help a bit.
Thanks!
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Hi all! I am afraid some more people out there is trying to draw this map! Even me with my limited skills!!! Please, is there any technology that allows to share this work-in-progress in XWiki? I mean, not a static diagram, but something users can interact with/edit it. Thanks! -- Ricardo Rodríguez Your XEN ICT Team
As told in a previous discussion, I am trying to figure out how to build a whole new skin in order to better understand how the skin system works (or vice-versa). In parallel, I will be writing the missing doc on <http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Skins#HCreatingawholenewskin> For the moment there is only a couple of phrases stating that the minimum templates needed are view, edit, preview and save. I have guessed these info after some studying of the structure of other templates, any confirmation or correction is welcome. Next I would like to know what variables should be handled by the templates. For example, a test for a parameter that I see often in other templates is #if ($request.getParameter("raw").equals("1")) I have guessed that when this is true there is just a code page to be displayed, but that does not tell me when and where this parameter is set, and if every parameter is set in the $request variable and what they mean... I have tried to list every parameter by this code, but it doesn't work: #foreach($param in $request.getParameterNames()) * $param : $request.getParameter($param) #end If someone could help me figure out all these things it would really help me understand how the skin system works and how to build a new skin. Of course you can complete yourself the wiki page but if you don't I will do it once I understood the process. Thanks. Le jeudi 20 décembre 2007 à 16:13 +0100, Karim-Pierre Maalej a écrit :
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
+1, we're mostly documenting features and OpenSource development practices. A complete tutorial should be written; for the moment, there are some articles about setting up XWiki, they used to be linked somewhere on xwiki.org.
To give you a more actual illustration, I am currently working on designing a skin for XWiki for the iPhone. It takes me quite a lot of time because I have to figure out how all this thing works (the Skins section only suggests tweaks to existing skins, and not redesigning a whole new one from scratch).
I intend to write a detailed howto based on my experience when I get to it, but for the moment I am right in the middle of the jungle, exploring and slowly drawing a map of the continent around me :-)
Hi Karim,
As told in a previous discussion, I am trying to figure out how to build a whole new skin in order to better understand how the skin system works (or vice-versa). In parallel, I will be writing the missing doc on <http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Skins#HCreatingawholenewskin>
For the moment there is only a couple of phrases stating that the minimum templates needed are view, edit, preview and save. I have guessed these info after some studying of the structure of other templates, any confirmation or correction is welcome.
In fact, there is no real need for a save.vm template : save is an action of the URL, which is handled by xwiki, and that will send back another template, according to user choices (click on "save" or "save and continue" for example) ; and result of the save process : view.vm (for save and view), edit.vm (for save and continue), or exception.vm (if the save somehow failed) - possibly any template. I started to write a document that will detail this forwarding process and the parameters you can use in XWiki forms and urls (can be handy when you write a skin) : http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWikiURLMappings. It's only a draft now, so can't be taken as complete.
Next I would like to know what variables should be handled by the templates. For example, a test for a parameter that I see often in other templates is
#if ($request.getParameter("raw").equals("1"))
What's important for your concern (building a new skin from scratch), is how much of the default skin behavior you want to keep. If you want to keep just everything (let's say, code viewer, history viewer, change viewer, comments & attachments forms and viewers, etc.) then, your best choice is probably to use that albatross skin as a basis for your new skin; otherwise you'll have a big amount of code to write, so be sure this is what you want to do :) Modifying a copy of the albatross skin (or even better, extending the albatross skin by overriding only the templates you need to modify/adding new templates) will allow you to change the layout of rendered html, add/remove things you want/things you don't want... well, let you free to decide of your own skin layout and behavior. Note that it is in the roadmap for XWiki 1.3 to make skin creation easier, moving every velocity templates to a single place (right now they are either in templates/ or in skins/albatross/), and introducing a new "skin extension" mechanism. Hope it answer your questions. Regards, Jérôme.
I have guessed that when this is true there is just a code page to be displayed, but that does not tell me when and where this parameter is set, and if every parameter is set in the $request variable and what they mean...
I have tried to list every parameter by this code, but it doesn't work:
#foreach($param in $request.getParameterNames()) * $param : $request.getParameter($param) #end
If someone could help me figure out all these things it would really help me understand how the skin system works and how to build a new skin. Of course you can complete yourself the wiki page but if you don't I will do it once I understood the process.
Thanks.
Le jeudi 20 décembre 2007 à 16:13 +0100, Karim-Pierre Maalej a écrit :
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
+1, we're mostly documenting features and OpenSource development practices. A complete tutorial should be written; for the moment, there are some articles about setting up XWiki, they used to be linked somewhere on xwiki.org.
To give you a more actual illustration, I am currently working on designing a skin for XWiki for the iPhone. It takes me quite a lot of time because I have to figure out how all this thing works (the Skins section only suggests tweaks to existing skins, and not redesigning a whole new one from scratch).
I intend to write a detailed howto based on my experience when I get to it, but for the moment I am right in the middle of the jungle, exploring and slowly drawing a map of the continent around me :-)
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Hi Karim,
Hi again :) I've just read that thread on XWiki's documentation where you mention you want to develop the skin for the iPhone. I guess you then certainly want to drop features from albatross (at least to begin with) and indeed start from scratch, or almost ; albatross layout being probably "too heavy" for such device. My advice would then be to start with simple things, and add features incrementally : first render documents, writing a new view.vm; then add the wikieditor, writing edit.vm (will it be usable btw ?), and so on. Still, you will definitely need to have albatross as a model, even if yours has to be lighter. The doc on URL/forms mappings can be usefull too when it'd be more complete. Regards, Jérôme.
As told in a previous discussion, I am trying to figure out how to build a whole new skin in order to better understand how the skin system works (or vice-versa). In parallel, I will be writing the missing doc on <http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Skins#HCreatingawholenewskin>
For the moment there is only a couple of phrases stating that the minimum templates needed are view, edit, preview and save. I have guessed these info after some studying of the structure of other templates, any confirmation or correction is welcome.
In fact, there is no real need for a save.vm template : save is an action of the URL, which is handled by xwiki, and that will send back another template, according to user choices (click on "save" or "save and continue" for example) ; and result of the save process : view.vm (for save and view), edit.vm (for save and continue), or exception.vm (if the save somehow failed) - possibly any template. I started to write a document that will detail this forwarding process and the parameters you can use in XWiki forms and urls (can be handy when you write a skin) : http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWikiURLMappings. It's only a draft now, so can't be taken as complete.
Next I would like to know what variables should be handled by the templates. For example, a test for a parameter that I see often in other templates is
#if ($request.getParameter("raw").equals("1"))
What's important for your concern (building a new skin from scratch), is how much of the default skin behavior you want to keep. If you want to keep just everything (let's say, code viewer, history viewer, change viewer, comments & attachments forms and viewers, etc.) then, your best choice is probably to use that albatross skin as a basis for your new skin; otherwise you'll have a big amount of code to write, so be sure this is what you want to do :)
Modifying a copy of the albatross skin (or even better, extending the albatross skin by overriding only the templates you need to modify/adding new templates) will allow you to change the layout of rendered html, add/remove things you want/things you don't want... well, let you free to decide of your own skin layout and behavior.
Note that it is in the roadmap for XWiki 1.3 to make skin creation easier, moving every velocity templates to a single place (right now they are either in templates/ or in skins/albatross/), and introducing a new "skin extension" mechanism.
Hope it answer your questions.
Regards, Jérôme.
I have guessed that when this is true there is just a code page to be displayed, but that does not tell me when and where this parameter is set, and if every parameter is set in the $request variable and what they mean...
I have tried to list every parameter by this code, but it doesn't work:
#foreach($param in $request.getParameterNames()) * $param : $request.getParameter($param) #end
If someone could help me figure out all these things it would really help me understand how the skin system works and how to build a new skin. Of course you can complete yourself the wiki page but if you don't I will do it once I understood the process.
Thanks.
Le jeudi 20 décembre 2007 à 16:13 +0100, Karim-Pierre Maalej a écrit :
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
+1, we're mostly documenting features and OpenSource development practices. A complete tutorial should be written; for the moment, there are some articles about setting up XWiki, they used to be linked somewhere on xwiki.org.
To give you a more actual illustration, I am currently working on designing a skin for XWiki for the iPhone. It takes me quite a lot of time because I have to figure out how all this thing works (the Skins section only suggests tweaks to existing skins, and not redesigning a whole new one from scratch).
I intend to write a detailed howto based on my experience when I get to it, but for the moment I am right in the middle of the jungle, exploring and slowly drawing a map of the continent around me :-)
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Thank you Jerome. These information will help me. Yes up to now I have based my new skin upon an existing skin (not albatross, but dodo). But then I figured out that I did understand little to the mechanism, that this raised issues, and I decided best to design a new skin from scratch (even if I do take back some code from what I have already written or from other skins). Le mardi 15 janvier 2008 à 23:16 +0100, Jerome Velociter a écrit :
Hi Karim,
Hi again :)
I've just read that thread on XWiki's documentation where you mention you want to develop the skin for the iPhone. I guess you then certainly want to drop features from albatross (at least to begin with) and indeed start from scratch, or almost ; albatross layout being probably "too heavy" for such device. My advice would then be to start with simple things, and add features incrementally : first render documents, writing a new view.vm; then add the wikieditor, writing edit.vm (will it be usable btw ?), and so on. Still, you will definitely need to have albatross as a model, even if yours has to be lighter. The doc on URL/forms mappings can be usefull too when it'd be more complete.
Regards, Jérôme.
As told in a previous discussion, I am trying to figure out how to build a whole new skin in order to better understand how the skin system works (or vice-versa). In parallel, I will be writing the missing doc on <http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Skins#HCreatingawholenewskin>
For the moment there is only a couple of phrases stating that the minimum templates needed are view, edit, preview and save. I have guessed these info after some studying of the structure of other templates, any confirmation or correction is welcome.
In fact, there is no real need for a save.vm template : save is an action of the URL, which is handled by xwiki, and that will send back another template, according to user choices (click on "save" or "save and continue" for example) ; and result of the save process : view.vm (for save and view), edit.vm (for save and continue), or exception.vm (if the save somehow failed) - possibly any template. I started to write a document that will detail this forwarding process and the parameters you can use in XWiki forms and urls (can be handy when you write a skin) : http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWikiURLMappings. It's only a draft now, so can't be taken as complete.
Next I would like to know what variables should be handled by the templates. For example, a test for a parameter that I see often in other templates is
#if ($request.getParameter("raw").equals("1"))
What's important for your concern (building a new skin from scratch), is how much of the default skin behavior you want to keep. If you want to keep just everything (let's say, code viewer, history viewer, change viewer, comments & attachments forms and viewers, etc.) then, your best choice is probably to use that albatross skin as a basis for your new skin; otherwise you'll have a big amount of code to write, so be sure this is what you want to do :)
Modifying a copy of the albatross skin (or even better, extending the albatross skin by overriding only the templates you need to modify/adding new templates) will allow you to change the layout of rendered html, add/remove things you want/things you don't want... well, let you free to decide of your own skin layout and behavior.
Note that it is in the roadmap for XWiki 1.3 to make skin creation easier, moving every velocity templates to a single place (right now they are either in templates/ or in skins/albatross/), and introducing a new "skin extension" mechanism.
Hope it answer your questions.
Regards, Jérôme.
I have guessed that when this is true there is just a code page to be displayed, but that does not tell me when and where this parameter is set, and if every parameter is set in the $request variable and what they mean...
I have tried to list every parameter by this code, but it doesn't work:
#foreach($param in $request.getParameterNames()) * $param : $request.getParameter($param) #end
If someone could help me figure out all these things it would really help me understand how the skin system works and how to build a new skin. Of course you can complete yourself the wiki page but if you don't I will do it once I understood the process.
Thanks.
Le jeudi 20 décembre 2007 à 16:13 +0100, Karim-Pierre Maalej a écrit :
So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'
+1, we're mostly documenting features and OpenSource development practices. A complete tutorial should be written; for the moment, there are some articles about setting up XWiki, they used to be linked somewhere on xwiki.org.
To give you a more actual illustration, I am currently working on designing a skin for XWiki for the iPhone. It takes me quite a lot of time because I have to figure out how all this thing works (the Skins section only suggests tweaks to existing skins, and not redesigning a whole new one from scratch).
I intend to write a detailed howto based on my experience when I get to it, but for the moment I am right in the middle of the jungle, exploring and slowly drawing a map of the continent around me :-)
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________ users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
participants (12)
-
"Víctor A. Rodríguez" -
Bjørnar Libæk -
Esbach, Brandon -
Jerome Velociter -
Karim-Pierre Maalej -
Nicolas Rodriguez -
Robert Hercz -
Sachn Mittal -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol -
Your XEN ICT Team - Ricardo Rodriguez