"Save and quit editor" "Save" "Quit editor without saving" or the shorter: "Save and quit" "Save" "Quit"
+1 I find it ot be an exellent idea ! It makes evident that when saving only you will not quit. The longuer may be more securized. I'm not sur it is mandatory anyway. 2009/9/4 Thibaut DEVERAUX <[email protected]>
Time to be structured...
Button naming is hard, especially if wanting to make a platform that is both ergonomic for normal users and for devs. (!!!)
-- Thinking "ergonomy" does not mean the same for someone who is trying to bypass the understanding barreer (adoption) and someone who already have the understanding and who want the tool to be powerfull and efficient (fast and secure editing). -- Thinking the same world (ie publish) may not have the same meaning. -- Etc.
So you have to make marketing before making UX... I think Emilie, Vincent, etc... should start the personas they want on the wiki (it is already made in fact but it only describe very large profiles that cover all type of possible users, having more real examples and if possible some priorities would help).
Then we have to draw user actions schemas according to each persona. Saying what zone of the tool they generally use. For each function define how much each persona will potentially use it.
Then each time you make a design or proposal think about it. Try to avoid having normal users lost as much as possible and at the same time try to make the tool as powerfull as possible for devs (keyboard shortcut only approach can be a good one ie).
I'm sorry, to be honest I don't really like personas and others strucured anaylsis. I consider they are good for communication or to making people who are not used to UX enter in a UX perspective. For an UX designer it only make things more rigid wich not help creativity. Yet... I think they are to be used for heavy projects because if an eavy project is not structured people who work on it get lost and all lose coherence.
I was not sure XWiki needed such heavy apparel. Yet because of collaboration complexity and because personas are good for communication I pushed for it.
Caty just made me understand you want an ergonomy for both normal user and devs. Which is one of the most complicated thing I know. So I think we have to structure it.
Structuring must not avoid us thinking out the bounds. But it should be here to help us to communicate, to help evryone to understand UX, to help to remember the problematics evrywhere, to help to create a good coherence.
Also I repeat that we need marketing and management involved in it. UX is not only about ergonomy but also about emotion, strategic decisions, brand, spirit of the project, etc...
I propose a vote about this and that someone take the management of this part (an UX designer or a manager) if XWiki SAS staff agree on that it has to be done.
Thanks.
2009/9/4 Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]>
Hi,
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Thibaut DEVERAUX <[email protected]
wrote:
Personally I never understand thoose different buttons. Just amazing me.
So there the user chains are (tell me if I'm right) :
Use SAVE & VIEW only The user is writting a message. He saves it. Dangers : - He may save and then see errors and come back to modify : why PREVIEW exists - He may find it to long to save while writting, don't save, loose his work. Especially on long messages. Why SAVE & VIEW exists.
Use PREVIEW then SAVE (and sometime modfy again ^_^ ) - Formated textes - User than can't correct a text in edit mode (I do and some friends too).
Use SAVE & CONTINU, SAVE & CONTINU [...], SAVE AND VIEW - Long textes - User with un unstable internet correction - User that get a bit stressed of loosing them work (unstable internet, clumsy, just stressed...)
Mix of the precedents
Use CANCEL - Undo save & continus - quitting edit mode without using a "hack" (back button, close the wondows)
Is this ok ?
Prpositions :
1 - Simplicity SAVE - nothing else
2 - Simplicity, keeping history a bit clean SAVE - PREVIEW
3 - Full featured PREVIEW - SAVE - PUBLISH --------------- CANCEL
We actually had a remark from a customer not so long ago who asked us to rename "Save & View" into "Publish" on their wiki.
It might be a good thing to rename it for the main wiki too as it sounds a bit clearer and explains well what the result of the action will be (the document will get published).
As for the "save & continue" button I know I often end up using it as I would use an autosave. I'm not sure about others but it seems to me that the default use is to ensure that no content get lost. Maybe we could make the "save & continue" button create minor edit and rename it to "save draft" or simply "save"...
"Save" would meand keep my work secure while "Publish" would mean "I'm done with my work, put it online" . The drawback being that the content gets published even when clcking "save & continue" / "save" / "save draft" ...
We could also make the preview also be a minor edit save action so that each time the user previews the page his progress is saved but that kills the "preview" part...
(ordered by usage chronology)
4 - Draft system <small>SAVE DRAFT --- PREVIEW DRAFT</small> PUSBLISH DRAFT /or/ UPDATE ARTICLE <small> Cancel modifications </small>
When I'm not making a huge contribution I prefer 2. When I'm writting long messages I apprecy the "SAVE & VIEW logic. When I'm reading mysefl I apprecy the "PREVIEW" logic. I'm an user I want evrything. Then I complain I'm getting lost in the interface.
The magic "advanced" menu is not really adapted here. So I guess we can have what i call a "sicentific" ergonome approche : put evrything and try to make it clear anyway. Or what i would call a radical design approche : just kill functionallities only a few users use. (we need stats **from average users** or a good nose)
Also maybe someone could find a way to get a simpler usage chain for the sames user cases.
I'm for simplest things so I would say 2 (mine), yet I don't have the experience of users, netheir the marketing infos. So if your really think it is necessary (really ? snif...) I would say 4 (mine), wich is C (Caty). I find the save & ... to be amazing. So I prefer the others. What tou you think?
In the long run we'll need some kind of draft support system and a way to automatically save page content to prevent data loss. Waiting for that day, I'm +1 for (C) too.
Guillaume
Thibaut
2009/9/4 Ecaterina Valica <[email protected]>
Hi,
Because we want to make a standard from vertical-aligned form, this means the buttons should be left-ordered with the most important action first. This should be changed also in Toucan and Albatross skin, not only just in Colibri.
Right now the Edit Actions are "Cancel", "Preview", "Save&Continue", "Save&View".
What do you think is the right order for them when they are left-aligned?
(A) Save&View, Save&Continue, Preview, Cancel (as it is - just in reverse)
(B) Save&View, Preview, Save&Continue, Cancel
(C) Preview, Save&Continue, Save&View, Cancel
(D) other variation
Remarks:
- "Cancel" should be *last* because it's a terminal (takes you out of the editor), no-saving action. This is the least important.
- "Save & View" is also a terminal action (takes you out of the editor) - having it* first* you have the 2 terminal actions at extremities. - "Preview" is the least damaging action in case of accidental submit (Silvia + Marta) - should be *first*?
- Some people use ("Preview" + "Save&Continue") {many times} + "Save&View" {final} - Other people just use "Save&Continue" + "Save & View" {final}, never "Preview", etc
- What is the necessity for the "Preview" button in a WYSIYWG editor? On the other hand "Preview" is very important if you edit in "Wiki" mode.
- Should "Preview" separate the two other SAVING actions? (Marta) - Should "Save&Continue" separate the two other VIEW actions?
Thanks, Caty _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki Skype: wikibc Twitter: glerouge http://guillaumelerouge.com/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs