On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:

Hi Caty and all,

On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

Hi,

For a while we've been discussing how the new Rights Management UI is gonna look like. After 5 prototype versions, we may have reached a conclusion.

Please take a look at: *Prototype* http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Rights51Space *Explanations* http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/RightsProposal

Please cast your vote if this is gonna be the final Rights representation, so that we may start the implementation. my +1 Any feedback is welcomed and we can still added improvements to this version.

The current version is a collaborative work done by me, Denis Gervalle, Raluca Stavro, Alex Busenius, Roman Muntyanu and many others (Guillaume, Sergiu, Vincent, Thomas). Thanks everyone for participating in the process.

+1

I like it.

One question: Why does it say on Rights51Space for the view right that "Allowed only for evalica" when view right is also allowed for all users in the Admin group?

Other questions: * Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be "Users and Groups"? * Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"? For me it's not related to advanced or not advanced. It's just a folded view and a full view. A right contributed by some extension might be as important as one of the default rights. Thanks -Vincent

...

Thanks, Caty

p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at [Proposal] Rights Management UI http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 22:50, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:

On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:

...

Hi Caty and all,

On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

Hi,

For a while we've been discussing how the new Rights Management UI is gonna look like. After 5 prototype versions, we may have reached a conclusion.

Please take a look at: *Prototype* http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Rights51Space *Explanations* http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/RightsProposal

Please cast your vote if this is gonna be the final Rights representation, so that we may start the implementation. my +1 Any feedback is welcomed and we can still added improvements to this version.

The current version is a collaborative work done by me, Denis Gervalle, Raluca Stavro, Alex Busenius, Roman Muntyanu and many others (Guillaume, Sergiu, Vincent, Thomas). Thanks everyone for participating in the process.

+1

I like it.

One question: Why does it say on Rights51Space for the view right that "Allowed only for evalica" when view right is also allowed for all users in the Admin group?

Other questions:

* Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be "Users and Groups"?

Well groups are also users at the end, but why not...

* Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"? For me it's not related to advanced or not advanced. It's just a folded view and a full view. A right contributed by some extension might be as important as one of the default rights.

Well, this is a point of view. The basic interface allow managing commons rights, and will probably be the only view allowed for users that have not their profile set to "Advanced" (like what is done for the edit menu, which is only shown to advanced users) Right interface is complex, but access to it is also possible for simple editors not only for admins. Those only need to manage read/write access to their page, and those will not understand the ins and outs of the extended rights. This is mainly why we see this as 2 different view of the same stuff: a basic view, and an advance view. You have a similar behavior in the right management interface of Windows ACLs. Note that in basic view, you have a summary icon (currently a lock, but this should be improved) that shows if there is some advanced rights locally set. The tooltips for this icon list the rights locally set and their allowance, but does not allow changing them (in the sample, the allowance is not shown, this is probably a mistake) Denis

Thanks -Vincent

...

...

Thanks, Caty

p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at [Proposal] Rights Management UI http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 09:33, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:

On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote:

...

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 22:50, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:

...

On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:

...

Hi Caty and all,

On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

Hi,

For a while we've been discussing how the new Rights Management UI is gonna look like. After 5 prototype versions, we may have reached a conclusion.

Please take a look at: *Prototype* http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Rights51Space *Explanations* http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/RightsProposal

Please cast your vote if this is gonna be the final Rights representation, so that we may start the implementation. my +1 Any feedback is welcomed and we can still added improvements to this version.

The current version is a collaborative work done by me, Denis Gervalle, Raluca Stavro, Alex Busenius, Roman Muntyanu and many others (Guillaume, Sergiu, Vincent, Thomas). Thanks everyone for participating in the process.

+1

I like it.

One question: Why does it say on Rights51Space for the view right that "Allowed only for evalica" when view right is also allowed for all users in the Admin group?

Other questions:

* Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be "Users and Groups"?

Well groups are also users at the end, but why not...

The reason I mention this is because the first column says type and then you have "users" and "groups" and not just "users". It's for consistency and I think from a user POV they're both different things.

I agree with Vincent here "users and group" would be a lot clearer for users. The fact that "groups are also users at the end" is pretty technical for basic user.

...

...

* Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"? For me it's not related to advanced or not advanced. It's just a folded view and a full view. A right contributed by some extension might be as important as one of the default rights.

Well, this is a point of view. The basic interface allow managing commons rights, and will probably be the only view allowed for users that have not their profile set to "Advanced" (like what is done for the edit menu, which is only shown to advanced users)

Yes this is exactly what I think is wrong.

Whoever has the right to modify rights should see all rights. There shouldn't be a notion of advanced or not because additional rights are *not* advanced stuff. Actually to give an example, the programming right itself could be considered advanced while a new right such as "ability to post messages in a forum" would be a basic right.

Thanks -Vincent

...

Right interface is complex, but access to it is also possible for simple editors not only for admins. Those only need to manage read/write access to their page, and those will not understand the ins and outs of the extended rights. This is mainly why we see this as 2 different view of the same stuff: a basic view, and an advance view. You have a similar behavior in the right management interface of Windows ACLs. Note that in basic view, you have a summary icon (currently a lock, but this should be improved) that shows if there is some advanced rights locally set. The tooltips for this icon list the rights locally set and their allowance, but does not allow changing them (in the sample, the allowance is not shown, this is probably a mistake)

Denis

...

Thanks -Vincent

...

...

Thanks, Caty

p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at [Proposal] Rights Management UI http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- Thomas Mortagne

On Jun 11, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

*@roman*

...

by default rights table lists all groups available in the system

The presented use case adds user "evalica" at Space level, on top on standard (rights that come with a fresh installed XWiki) Wiki level groups. That's why those groups are presented. I should have stated this.

was there an aim to allow displaying ALL of the rights that are applied to

...

ALL users/groups at current moment. And in particular what if user is not assigned to any group, where do the rights come from?

as Denis said "Registered Users" covers this case. And yes, it's a special case that could get protected from deletion.

*@Denis *

...

Regarding the yellow background, I think that their should be two different colors: one for the row background on hover and one for the background of what has been changed without being saved.

We need this especially when we hover the row and this information disappears. We should talk about this and see if we want to add a new color to the ColorTheme. I know there was also a talk about "Hightlight applied filters in livetable" http://markmail.org/message/5maylva3vjgre66c . We could add $theme.selectedColor additional to $theme.highlightColor.

*@Vincent *

...

Why does it say on Rights51Space for the view right that "Allowed only for evalica" when view right is also allowed for all users in the Admin group?

The main disadvantage of this proposal is the icon contrast. I used icons from Silk and gray them out, but still there is not enough. We need to think on a way to improve this. So, in basic mode, icons have an inherited and overridden (locally set) state. You can see them at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/RightsProposal/icons.png[first two row are inherited (allow/deny), the next rows are locally set (allow/deny) ]. Except "edit" and "delete", the other rights get lost in contrast.

So, if you look closely, you will see that "evalica" has the "view" right locally allowed, while "XWikiAdminGroup" has the right inherited (from Wiki level, so it doesn't affect other rights at Space level; plus is an "implicit" rights - comes from allowed "admin"). You can observe this setting of rights, if you look also in the menu http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/RightsProposal/...

The problem with the phrase "Allowed only for evalica" is that maybe it should be "Allowed locally only for evalica". Also this could have scaling problems (if you allow it locally for multiple users). The advantage of the phrase is that if you have a problem with this right (the right is denied), you are informed who is the cause. Also the word "allowed" can be perceived as a call to action, letting the user know that he needs to allow the right in order to fix it.

Like Denis suggested "Overwritten by local allowance" we could find another phrase, maybe less technical.

Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be "Users and

...

Groups"?

I'll change that.

Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"?

...

the programming right itself could be considered advanced while a new right

...

such as "ability to post messages in a forum" would be a basic right

The separation between basic and advanced rights was done trying to separate mandatory rights that cover the majority of XWiki functionality from rights that the user can rely on their default value. "programming" or any other application right IMO is not vital for a "basic" administrator.

We can change "advanced" with "extended". WDYT?

Extended is much better IMO since this means rights in addition to the standard ones and has no notion of advanced or not. Thanks -Vincent

Thanks everybody for your feedback - keep it coming :p Caty

On Jun 11, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 09:33, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:

...

On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote:

...

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 22:50, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:

...

On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:

...

Hi Caty and all,

On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:

...

Hi,

For a while we've been discussing how the new Rights Management UI is gonna look like. After 5 prototype versions, we may have reached a

conclusion.

...

...

...

Please take a look at: *Prototype*

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Rights51Space

...

*Explanations*

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/RightsProposal

...

Please cast your vote if this is gonna be the final Rights

representation,

...

so that we may start the implementation. my +1 Any feedback is welcomed and we can still added improvements to this version.

The current version is a collaborative work done by me, Denis Gervalle, Raluca Stavro, Alex Busenius, Roman Muntyanu and many others (Guillaume, Sergiu, Vincent, Thomas). Thanks everyone for participating in the process.

+1

I like it.

One question: Why does it say on Rights51Space for the view right that "Allowed only for evalica" when view right is also allowed for all users in the Admin group?

Other questions:

* Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be "Users and Groups"?

Well groups are also users at the end, but why not...

The reason I mention this is because the first column says type and then you have "users" and "groups" and not just "users". It's for consistency and I think from a user POV they're both different things.

...

...

* Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"? For me it's not related to advanced or not advanced. It's just a folded view and a full view. A right contributed by some extension might be as important as one of the default rights.

Well, this is a point of view. The basic interface allow managing commons rights, and will probably be the only view allowed for users that have not their profile set to "Advanced" (like what is done for the edit menu, which is only shown to advanced users)

Yes this is exactly what I think is wrong.

Whoever has the right to modify rights should see all rights. There shouldn't be a notion of advanced or not because additional rights are *not* advanced stuff. Actually to give an example, the programming right itself could be considered advanced while a new right such as "ability to post messages in a forum" would be a basic right.

Our concern is simplicity, like the simplification done on the edit menu, that became a simple button, preventing basic user to see objects, classes,... Here, the goal is the same, provide a simplified interface for the very basic rights that concern everyone and that could be understand by all.

Additionnal rights will be added by additional component, so these additional rights will not be uniform across all wikis, and user with basic knowledge of wikis will not be aware of all those rights. These are not the basic rights you found on any wikis, and anyone understand immediately. So, these are obviously advanced in my POV. ie: "Ability to post a message in a forum" is for admin, not for a basic user editing a page.

Please, also note that changing a user from basic to advanced is in the user profile a task that a user with edit write on himself could do. And that even basic user may see current advanced rights status in a tooltips when sets. So if a basic user understand its need of more advanced option, he could go for advanced.

Also note that current whoever could modify rights is whoever has edit right. So many basic user could be in a situation that allows editing rights. But currently, only advanced user has the menu option to access this on a page. So, in practice, with the current skin, nobody will see the basic only interface.

Finally, if you like Caty proposal of using Extended instead of Advanced, we can but that linking this to the advanced status of a user will be less clear. But if you dislike my ideas, I am open to drop it, this was just a proposal :)

At this stage I don't like too much linking to the advanced status since it means some rights are simple and some are advanced and choosing which are simple and which are advanced is really difficult and depend completely on the use case at hand (see my example with the right to post to a forum for ex - I guess you could argue that the forum app would need to offer an admin UI that would allow to easily modify the rights for it but then there wouldn't be a single UI interface for changing the rights). But maybe I misunderstood something. Thanks -Vincent

Denis

...

Thanks -Vincent

...

Right interface is complex, but access to it is also possible for simple editors not only for admins. Those only need to manage read/write access to their page, and those will not understand the ins and outs of the extended rights. This is mainly why we see this as 2 different view of the same stuff: a basic view, and an advance view. You have a similar behavior in the right management interface of Windows ACLs. Note that in basic view, you have a summary icon (currently a lock, but this should be improved) that shows if there is some advanced rights locally set. The tooltips for this icon list the rights locally set and their allowance, but does not allow changing them (in the sample, the allowance is not shown, this is probably a mistake)

Denis

...

Thanks -Vincent

...

...

Thanks, Caty

p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at [Proposal] Rights Management UI http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey

On Jun 11, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:46, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:

...

On Jun 11, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:

...

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 09:33, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:

...

On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote:

...

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 22:50, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:

...

On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:

> Hi Caty and all, > > On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> For a while we've been discussing how the new Rights Management UI

is

...

...

...

gonna >> look like. After 5 prototype versions, we may have reached a conclusion. >> >> Please take a look at: >> *Prototype* >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Rights51Space >> *Explanations* >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/RightsProposal >> >> Please cast your vote if this is gonna be the final Rights representation, >> so that we may start the implementation. >> my +1 >> Any feedback is welcomed and we can still added improvements to this >> version. >> >> The current version is a collaborative work done by me, Denis Gervalle, >> Raluca Stavro, Alex Busenius, Roman Muntyanu and many others (Guillaume, >> Sergiu, Vincent, Thomas). Thanks everyone for participating in the process. > > +1 > > I like it. > > One question: Why does it say on Rights51Space for the view right that "Allowed only for evalica" when view right is also allowed for all users in the Admin group?

Other questions:

* Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be "Users and Groups"?

Well groups are also users at the end, but why not...

The reason I mention this is because the first column says type and then you have "users" and "groups" and not just "users". It's for consistency and I think from a user POV they're both different things.

...

...

* Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"? For me it's not related to advanced or not advanced. It's just a folded view and a full view. A right contributed by some extension might be as important as one of the default rights.

Well, this is a point of view. The basic interface allow managing commons rights, and will probably be the only view allowed for users that have not their profile set to "Advanced" (like what is done for the edit menu, which is only shown to advanced users)

Yes this is exactly what I think is wrong.

Whoever has the right to modify rights should see all rights. There shouldn't be a notion of advanced or not because additional rights are *not* advanced stuff. Actually to give an example, the programming right itself could be considered advanced while a new right such as "ability to post messages in a forum" would be a basic right.

Our concern is simplicity, like the simplification done on the edit menu, that became a simple button, preventing basic user to see objects, classes,... Here, the goal is the same, provide a simplified interface for the very basic rights that concern everyone and that could be understand by all.

Additionnal rights will be added by additional component, so these additional rights will not be uniform across all wikis, and user with basic knowledge of wikis will not be aware of all those rights. These are not the basic rights you found on any wikis, and anyone understand immediately. So, these are obviously advanced in my POV. ie: "Ability to post a message in a forum" is for admin, not for a basic user editing a page.

Please, also note that changing a user from basic to advanced is in the user profile a task that a user with edit write on himself could do. And that even basic user may see current advanced rights status in a tooltips when sets. So if a basic user understand its need of more advanced option, he could go for advanced.

Also note that current whoever could modify rights is whoever has edit right. So many basic user could be in a situation that allows editing rights. But currently, only advanced user has the menu option to access this on a page. So, in practice, with the current skin, nobody will see the basic only interface.

Finally, if you like Caty proposal of using Extended instead of Advanced, we can but that linking this to the advanced status of a user will be less clear. But if you dislike my ideas, I am open to drop it, this was just a proposal :)

At this stage I don't like too much linking to the advanced status since it means some rights are simple and some are advanced and choosing which are simple and which are advanced is really difficult and depend completely on the use case at hand (see my example with the right to post to a forum for ex - I guess you could argue that the forum app would need to offer an admin UI that would allow to easily modify the rights for it but then there wouldn't be a single UI interface for changing the rights).

But maybe I misunderstood something.

Probably, since for me the separation is simple. Basic rights are those we have already, View, Comment, Edit, Delete, Admin, and no more (Programming is questionable).

This is my last try and if I'm not able to make my point come across I'll wait for others to comment on this: Take the "edit right" for example. You say it's a basic right. It's not more basic from a user POV than a "forum edit right". They are at the same level. The only difference is that one is "standard" while the other is an "extension". Thanks -Vincent

Their meaning are obvious, these are the minimal requirement for viewing, commenting, editing and deleting documents on any secured wikis. So these does not require any experience to be used, especially at the page level, and these will be common on all XWiki instances. Since we are designing a better Rights UI, I hope that we will be able to show it to users with less technical knowledge. This is for me the goal behind having a basic interface for these rights and user, appart from showing a clear resume of common rights.

Denis

...

Thanks -Vincent

...

Denis

...

Thanks -Vincent

...

Right interface is complex, but access to it is also possible for

simple

...

...

...

editors not only for admins. Those only need to manage read/write access to their page, and those will not understand the ins and outs of the extended rights. This is mainly why we see this as 2 different view of the same stuff: a basic view, and an advance view. You have a similar behavior in the right management interface of Windows ACLs. Note that in basic view, you have a summary icon (currently a lock, but this should be improved) that shows if there is some advanced rights locally set. The tooltips for this icon list the rights locally set and their allowance, but does not allow changing them (in the sample, the allowance is not shown, this is probably a mistake)

Denis

...

Thanks -Vincent

> >> Thanks, >> Caty >> >> p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at

[Proposal]

...

>> Rights Management UI http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey