[xwiki-devs] Invitation application icon
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon). Any takers? Thanks, Caleb
Hello, I would like to make a try. Can you please give me please some information about what Invitation application exactly does or maybe other elements that you consider to be relevant for the icon. Thanks, Ciprian On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Ciprian, Designer XWiki
Cool. The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great. Caleb Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hello,
I would like to make a try. Can you please give me please some information about what Invitation application exactly does or maybe other elements that you consider to be relevant for the icon.
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed! Thanks, Ciprian On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
Caleb
Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hello,
I would like to make a try. Can you please give me please some information about what Invitation application exactly does or maybe other elements that you consider to be relevant for the icon.
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Ciprian, Designer XWiki
Awesome! I really like #2 Not a UI guy though so I'll step out of the way. Caleb Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi,
Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed!
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
Caleb
Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hello,
I would like to make a try. Can you please give me please some information about what Invitation application exactly does or maybe other elements that you consider to be relevant for the icon.
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 15:08, Caleb James DeLisle <[email protected]
wrote:
Awesome! I really like #2 Not a UI guy though so I'll step out of the way.
+1 for #2 as well. Nice job Ciprian! Guillaume
Caleb
Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi,
Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed!
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
Caleb
Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hello,
I would like to make a try. Can you please give me please some information about what Invitation application exactly does or maybe other elements that you consider to be relevant for the icon.
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
+1 #2 :) shiny On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 16:04, Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]>wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 15:08, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]
wrote:
Awesome! I really like #2 Not a UI guy though so I'll step out of the way.
+1 for #2 as well.
Nice job Ciprian!
Guillaume
Caleb
Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi,
Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed!
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
Caleb
Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hello,
I would like to make a try. Can you please give me please some information about what Invitation application exactly does or maybe other elements that you consider to be relevant for the icon.
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 06/18/2010 03:44 PM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi,
Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed!
#2 looks great! Thanks, Marius
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle< [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
Caleb
Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hello,
I would like to make a try. Can you please give me please some information about what Invitation application exactly does or maybe other elements that you consider to be relevant for the icon.
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle< [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
+1 for #2 On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 14:44, Ciprian Amaritei <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed!
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
Caleb
Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hello,
I would like to make a try. Can you please give me please some information about what Invitation application exactly does or maybe other elements that you consider to be relevant for the icon.
Thanks, Ciprian
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Ciprian, Designer XWiki _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On 06/18/2010 02:44 PM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi,
Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed!
Hm, although it respects Caleb's hints, I don't quite like either proposal. Looking at it, it doesn't suggest "invitation" at all, but mailserver configuration (which we actually do have in the "General" administrative category). A good option would be to actually make a new category for the mailserver settings and use one of these icons. Searching for "Invitation" on Google Image Search, I noticed two things: - invitation envelopes have a ribbon + knot on them, and they don't usually get sent via landmail (thus no stamps nor postal markings) - invitations start with handwritten "You're Invited" (see http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:7DmaO_QbCcmK0M:http://www.misquincemag.co... for an example) So, a suggestion would be to eliminate the stamp and instead use a ribbon around the envelope. Another suggestion would be to use an open envelope and a letter with You're Invited on it. Also, I'm not sure the XWiki (SAS) logo should be there, since normally people using XWiki don't see that logo, so it's a bit confusing.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle< [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
On 06/18/2010 02:44 PM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi,
Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed!
Hm, although it respects Caleb's hints, I don't quite like either proposal. Looking at it, it doesn't suggest "invitation" at all, but mailserver configuration (which we actually do have in the "General" administrative category). A good option would be to actually make a new category for the mailserver settings and use one of these icons.
Searching for "Invitation" on Google Image Search, I noticed two things:
- invitation envelopes have a ribbon + knot on them, and they don't usually get sent via landmail (thus no stamps nor postal markings) - invitations start with handwritten "You're Invited" (see http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:7DmaO_QbCcmK0M:http://www.misquincemag.co... for an example)
So, a suggestion would be to eliminate the stamp and instead use a ribbon around the envelope.
Another suggestion would be to use an open envelope and a letter with You're Invited on it.
Also, I'm not sure the XWiki (SAS) logo should be there, since normally people using XWiki don't see that logo, so it's a bit confusing.
All points are valid IMO except the logo is still the xwiki.org logo since negotiations seem to have fallen apart on choosing a new one. Also it will only be used in the administration interface and people there will likely know what they are administrating. I'm happy with whatever, I'll apply the current #2 logo and if a different one is made before release day and the community finds it better, I'll change. Caleb
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle< [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
On 06/18/2010 07:10 PM, Caleb James DeLisle wrote:
Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
On 06/18/2010 02:44 PM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi,
Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed!
Hm, although it respects Caleb's hints, I don't quite like either proposal. Looking at it, it doesn't suggest "invitation" at all, but mailserver configuration (which we actually do have in the "General" administrative category). A good option would be to actually make a new category for the mailserver settings and use one of these icons.
Searching for "Invitation" on Google Image Search, I noticed two things:
- invitation envelopes have a ribbon + knot on them, and they don't usually get sent via landmail (thus no stamps nor postal markings) - invitations start with handwritten "You're Invited" (see http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:7DmaO_QbCcmK0M:http://www.misquincemag.co... for an example)
So, a suggestion would be to eliminate the stamp and instead use a ribbon around the envelope.
Another suggestion would be to use an open envelope and a letter with You're Invited on it.
Also, I'm not sure the XWiki (SAS) logo should be there, since normally people using XWiki don't see that logo, so it's a bit confusing.
All points are valid IMO except the logo is still the xwiki.org logo since negotiations seem to have fallen apart on choosing a new one. Also it will only be used in the administration interface and people there will likely know what they are administrating.
This is not about the XWiki SAS / XWiki org logo, but about the fact that it is the XWiki logo, and most times people don't keep that logo. XWiki is merely a tool which powers people's applications. It's like putting the MS Visual Studio logo in every application compiled with it. Do users know what was used to compile a binary application? Probably not. It's not entirely the same situation, but close enough. Another scenario: custom deployments. Netcipia users don't believe they use XWiki, they use Netcipia, and the X doesn't mean anything to them.
I'm happy with whatever, I'll apply the current #2 logo and if a different one is made before release day and the community finds it better, I'll change.
Caleb
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle< [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
IMO we should stay close to the concept of invitation from the Invitation application perspective. Having a ribbon and a handwritten text is more suggestive for events such as weddings or birthdays. Therefore we should not forget the technical aspect .. Yet I will try a version based on your suggestions or to adjust the existing ones a little. On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[email protected]> wrote:
On 06/18/2010 02:44 PM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi,
Check the proposal I have made for Invitation app here: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon All suggestions are welcomed!
Hm, although it respects Caleb's hints, I don't quite like either proposal. Looking at it, it doesn't suggest "invitation" at all, but mailserver configuration (which we actually do have in the "General" administrative category). A good option would be to actually make a new category for the mailserver settings and use one of these icons.
Searching for "Invitation" on Google Image Search, I noticed two things:
- invitation envelopes have a ribbon + knot on them, and they don't usually get sent via landmail (thus no stamps nor postal markings) - invitations start with handwritten "You're Invited" (see
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:7DmaO_QbCcmK0M:http://www.misquincemag.co... for an example)
So, a suggestion would be to eliminate the stamp and instead use a ribbon around the envelope.
Another suggestion would be to use an open envelope and a letter with You're Invited on it.
Also, I'm not sure the XWiki (SAS) logo should be there, since normally people using XWiki don't see that logo, so it's a bit confusing.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle< [email protected]> wrote:
Cool.
The invitation application sends email to people and invites them to join the wiki. If it's a closed wiki then the email may grant authority to join. I was thinking something with an envelope and a postmark or something like that. I'm sure you will come up with something great.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Ciprian, Designer XWiki
Hi, I have added a new version of the icon: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon Still waiting for suggestions. Thanks, Ciprian. On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Ciprian, Designer XWiki
A lot clearer now, I definitely like the fourth, but still: - the arrow is unnecessary - the text on the letter is unreadable and probably not the best copy choice: I would go for "RSVP" instead of "You're invited". It's international, and a lot easier to make larger in such a small area. Dan On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi, I have added a new version of the icon: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon Still waiting for suggestions.
Thanks, Ciprian.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Ciprian, Designer XWiki _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
If there aren't too many objections, I'm going to keep the current icon (#2) because the search icon to the right of it is blue and the background and annotations icon on the left are white so brown provides a good color contrast. I hate to bikeshead these kind of things while important changes to the API and the best practices are ignored. Caleb Dan Grigore wrote:
A lot clearer now, I definitely like the fourth, but still:
- the arrow is unnecessary - the text on the letter is unreadable and probably not the best copy choice: I would go for "RSVP" instead of "You're invited". It's international, and a lot easier to make larger in such a small area.
Dan
On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi, I have added a new version of the icon: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon Still waiting for suggestions.
Thanks, Ciprian.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Ciprian, Designer XWiki _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
If you think that the other ones fits better, I can easily change the background color for them. Anyway this is the version number 2: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon/in... Notice that it still contains the XWiki logo there.. Tell me if you want to remove it. Ciprian. On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 5:01 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
If there aren't too many objections, I'm going to keep the current icon (#2) because the search icon to the right of it is blue and the background and annotations icon on the left are white so brown provides a good color contrast.
I hate to bikeshead these kind of things while important changes to the API and the best practices are ignored.
Caleb
Dan Grigore wrote:
A lot clearer now, I definitely like the fourth, but still:
- the arrow is unnecessary - the text on the letter is unreadable and probably not the best copy choice: I would go for "RSVP" instead of "You're invited". It's international, and a lot easier to make larger in such a small area.
Dan
On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
Hi, I have added a new version of the icon: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Ciprian/Invitation%20icon Still waiting for suggestions.
Thanks, Ciprian.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Caleb James DeLisle < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello, Since the invitation application is in XE, I was wondering if anyone wanted to try putting together an icon for the invitation section in the administration interface. Sorry about the short notice, if you're all busy that's fine, I can slap something together but it won't be nearly as good as some of the stuff I've seen (search icon).
Any takers?
Thanks,
Caleb
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Ciprian, Designer XWiki _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Ciprian, Designer XWiki
participants (8)
-
Caleb James DeLisle -
Ciprian Amaritei -
Dan Grigore -
Ecaterina Valica -
Guillaume Lerouge -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne