[xwiki-devs] [VOTE] New title behavior handling for the 2.0 release
Hi, Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page. After talking to several people here's what I propose: 1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content) This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file. Here's my +1 Thanks -Vincent
+1, JV. On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
+1 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:26, Vincent Massol<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
+1 Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions
Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of providing a flag to switch?
3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri)
-0 I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better skin, right? it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very user-friendly.
4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since semantically speaking, now that the page title is displayed with h1, everything under should be a h2, in a "normal" semantic. I don't see any use case when, in the document, there is a heading as important as the page title, but I agree we should allow it (if a user really really wants it). Actually, that's how I now see the structure of a document (how it should be built to be "correct"): title: |Page_title________________ == first section lorem ipsum == second section lorem ipsum Now, this would require adjusting section editing and default toc. In a doc structure based on h1 sections, we should provide section editing for the document title (so that the first section of the document can be edited through its associated H1) -- would this actually make sense for the user?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1
otherwise 0, it's hard to have an opinion, nothing seems right... Thanks, Anca
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 15:18, Anca Luca<[email protected]> wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions
Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of providing a flag to switch?
3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri)
-0
I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better skin, right? it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very user-friendly.
4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since
This is wrong, = does not mean page title, it mean level one section header. The fact that the graphical title of the page is a <h1> or something else is a skin implementation details it should not impact the content that way.
semantically speaking, now that the page title is displayed with h1, everything under should be a h2, in a "normal" semantic. I don't see any use case when, in the document, there is a heading as important as the page title, but I agree we should allow it (if a user really really wants it).
Actually, that's how I now see the structure of a document (how it should be built to be "correct"): title: |Page_title________________
== first section lorem ipsum == second section lorem ipsum
Now, this would require adjusting section editing and default toc.
In a doc structure based on h1 sections, we should provide section editing for the document title (so that the first section of the document can be edited through its associated H1) -- would this actually make sense for the user?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1
otherwise 0, it's hard to have an opinion, nothing seems right...
Thanks, Anca
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 15:18, Anca Luca<[email protected]> wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of providing a flag to switch?
3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) -0
I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better skin, right? it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very user-friendly.
4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content) This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since
This is wrong, = does not mean page title, it mean level one section header. The fact that the graphical title of the page is a <h1> or something else is a skin implementation details it should not impact the content that way.
Then it should be implemented with a h2 (so that there is semantic room for the doc title), or we drop the idea of a document title that encompasses the whole content (because there is no way we can build a coherent document from a semantic pov, wiki & html). Thanks, Anca
semantically speaking, now that the page title is displayed with h1, everything under should be a h2, in a "normal" semantic. I don't see any use case when, in the document, there is a heading as important as the page title, but I agree we should allow it (if a user really really wants it).
Actually, that's how I now see the structure of a document (how it should be built to be "correct"): title: |Page_title________________
== first section lorem ipsum == second section lorem ipsum
Now, this would require adjusting section editing and default toc.
In a doc structure based on h1 sections, we should provide section editing for the document title (so that the first section of the document can be edited through its associated H1) -- would this actually make sense for the user?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1 otherwise 0, it's hard to have an opinion, nothing seems right...
Thanks, Anca
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Anca Luca wrote:
Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 15:18, Anca Luca<[email protected]> wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of providing a flag to switch?
3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) -0
I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better skin, right? it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very user-friendly.
4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since
On the contrary, this means promoting level 2 headings to level 1 since the level one has become the title. But this should happen only to documents that have just one H1 that plays the role of a title.
This is wrong, = does not mean page title, it mean level one section header. The fact that the graphical title of the page is a <h1> or something else is a skin implementation details it should not impact the content that way.
Then it should be implemented with a h2 (so that there is semantic room for the doc title), or we drop the idea of a document title that encompasses the whole content (because there is no way we can build a coherent document from a semantic pov, wiki & html).
IMO the title of a document is _above_ the level one headings which are like the chapters of a book. Thanks, Marius
Thanks, Anca
semantically speaking, now that the page title is displayed with h1, everything under should be a h2, in a "normal" semantic. I don't see any use case when, in the document, there is a heading as important as the page title, but I agree we should allow it (if a user really really wants it).
Actually, that's how I now see the structure of a document (how it should be built to be "correct"): title: |Page_title________________
== first section lorem ipsum == second section lorem ipsum
Now, this would require adjusting section editing and default toc.
In a doc structure based on h1 sections, we should provide section editing for the document title (so that the first section of the document can be edited through its associated H1) -- would this actually make sense for the user?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1 otherwise 0, it's hard to have an opinion, nothing seems right...
Thanks, Anca
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 16:09, Marius Dumitru Florea<[email protected]> wrote:
Anca Luca wrote:
Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 15:18, Anca Luca<[email protected]> wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of providing a flag to switch?
3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) -0
I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better skin, right? it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very user-friendly.
4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since
On the contrary, this means promoting level 2 headings to level 1 since the level one has become the title. But this should happen only to documents that have just one H1 that plays the role of a title.
This is wrong, = does not mean page title, it mean level one section header. The fact that the graphical title of the page is a <h1> or something else is a skin implementation details it should not impact the content that way.
Then it should be implemented with a h2 (so that there is semantic room for the doc title), or we drop the idea of a document title  that encompasses the whole content (because there is no way we can build a coherent document from a semantic pov, wiki & html).
IMO the title of a document is _above_ the level one headings which are like the chapters of a book.
+1
Thanks, Marius
Thanks, Anca
semantically speaking, now that the page title is displayed with h1, everything under should be a h2, in a "normal" semantic. I don't see any use case when, in the document, there is a heading as important as the page title, but I agree we should allow it (if a user really really wants it).
Actually, that's how I now see the structure of a document (how it should be built to be "correct"): title: |Page_title________________
== first section lorem ipsum == second section lorem ipsum
Now, this would require adjusting section editing and default toc.
In a doc structure based on h1 sections, we should provide section editing for the document title (so that the first section of the document can be edited through its associated H1) -- would this actually make sense for the user?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1 otherwise 0, it's hard to have an opinion, nothing seems right...
Thanks, Anca
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 16:09, Marius Dumitru Florea<[email protected]> wrote:
Anca Luca wrote:
Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 15:18, Anca Luca<[email protected]> wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of providing a flag to switch?
3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) -0
I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better skin, right? it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very user-friendly.
4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content) This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since On the contrary, this means promoting level 2 headings to level 1 since the level one has become the title. But this should happen only to documents that have just one H1 that plays the role of a title.
This is wrong, = does not mean page title, it mean level one section header. The fact that the graphical title of the page is a <h1> or something else is a skin implementation details it should not impact the content that way. Then it should be implemented with a h2 (so that there is semantic room for the doc title), or we drop the idea of a document title that encompasses the whole content (because there is no way we can build a coherent document from a semantic pov, wiki & html). IMO the title of a document is _above_ the level one headings which are like the chapters of a book.
they are, but semantically speaking (the html semantic) they would be just the same, even if we nicely style titles bigger and bolder. That's why I say that "there is no way we can build a coherent document from a semantic pov, wiki & html": when it will make sense in the wiki (it will have a title + =headings= under), it will not make sense in html; when it makes sense in html (h1 = title + h2s under) it would not make sense in the wiki since they will have to be marked with ==headings==. Thanks, Anca
+1
Thanks, Marius
Thanks, Anca
semantically speaking, now that the page title is displayed with h1, everything under should be a h2, in a "normal" semantic. I don't see any use case when, in the document, there is a heading as important as the page title, but I agree we should allow it (if a user really really wants it).
Actually, that's how I now see the structure of a document (how it should be built to be "correct"): title: |Page_title________________
== first section lorem ipsum == second section lorem ipsum
Now, this would require adjusting section editing and default toc.
In a doc structure based on h1 sections, we should provide section editing for the document title (so that the first section of the document can be edited through its associated H1) -- would this actually make sense for the user?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1 otherwise 0, it's hard to have an opinion, nothing seems right...
Thanks, Anca
Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Sep 9, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Anca Luca wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions
Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of providing a flag to switch?
This is point 4). We still need the compat flag for those having existing documents.
3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri)
-0
I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better skin, right?
Nope. We're changing the way something not related to skins work: the title. All skins must be adapted accordingly and at the same time. Otherwise we'll be breaking upgraders.
it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very user-friendly.
4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since semantically speaking, now that the page title is displayed with h1, everything under should be a h2, in a "normal" semantic.
Details for 4): - add titles - remove h1 since they're not needed anymore - move existing h2 to h1 Thanks -Vincent
I don't see any use case when, in the document, there is a heading as important as the page title, but I agree we should allow it (if a user really really wants it).
Actually, that's how I now see the structure of a document (how it should be built to be "correct"): title: |Page_title________________
== first section lorem ipsum == second section lorem ipsum
Now, this would require adjusting section editing and default toc.
In a doc structure based on h1 sections, we should provide section editing for the document title (so that the first section of the document can be edited through its associated H1) -- would this actually make sense for the user?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Here's my +1
otherwise 0, it's hard to have an opinion, nothing seems right...
Thanks, Anca
Vincent Massol wrote:
4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content) This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since semantically speaking, now that the page title is displayed with h1, everything under should be a h2, in a "normal" semantic.
Details for 4): - add titles - remove h1 since they're not needed anymore - move existing h2 to h1
- add a CI test which checks that the title is set for all documents -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
Here's what Mediawiki (on Wikipedia) does: - the document title is displayed using a h1 id=firstHeading - the content allows using =titles=, which generate h1 - by a natural process, contributors rarely use =titles= in documents So I continue to think that we should allow users to enter = titles, and they should generate h1. There is no rule against a document having more than one h1. Again, the document title is in the <title> element, not in the <h1> element.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
What happens with dynamic titles?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
On Sep 9, 2009, at 5:48 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
Here's what Mediawiki (on Wikipedia) does:
- the document title is displayed using a h1 id=firstHeading - the content allows using =titles=, which generate h1 - by a natural process, contributors rarely use =titles= in documents
So I continue to think that we should allow users to enter = titles, and they should generate h1. There is no rule against a document having more than one h1. Again, the document title is in the <title> element, not in the <h1> element.
How does that contradict any of the 4 points below?
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
What happens with dynamic titles?
They'll get generated from the content since the title would be empty for pages with dynamic titles. See Denis's proposal and my answer to it. It doesn't change any of the 4 points mentioned above AFAICS. Thanks -Vincent
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Vincent Massol wrote:
On Sep 9, 2009, at 5:48 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page. Here's what Mediawiki (on Wikipedia) does:
- the document title is displayed using a h1 id=firstHeading - the content allows using =titles=, which generate h1 - by a natural process, contributors rarely use =titles= in documents
So I continue to think that we should allow users to enter = titles, and they should generate h1. There is no rule against a document having more than one h1. Again, the document title is in the <title> element, not in the <h1> element.
How does that contradict any of the 4 points below?
It doesn't, it is mostly a reply to Anca and the others that don't want to have more than one H1 in the page.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content) What happens with dynamic titles?
They'll get generated from the content since the title would be empty for pages with dynamic titles.
See Denis's proposal and my answer to it.
It doesn't change any of the 4 points mentioned above AFAICS.
Indeed. +1 for these changes.
Thanks -Vincent
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
Here's what Mediawiki (on Wikipedia) does:
- the document title is displayed using a h1 id=firstHeading - the content allows using =titles=, which generate h1 - by a natural process, contributors rarely use =titles= in documents
So I continue to think that we should allow users to enter = titles, and they should generate h1. There is no rule against a document having more than one h1. Again, the document title is in the <title> element, not in the <h1> element.
true, and this means that we could have the title displayed in a page in anything (<div>), doesn't necessarily have to be semantic, since its semantic is given by its use in the <title>. Normally, from the semantic pov, we should leave it only in title, but it's just that we need to emphasize it for the user. Why would we put it in a h1 then? Thanks, Anca
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
What happens with dynamic titles?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Anca Luca wrote:
Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page. Here's what Mediawiki (on Wikipedia) does:
- the document title is displayed using a h1 id=firstHeading - the content allows using =titles=, which generate h1 - by a natural process, contributors rarely use =titles= in documents
So I continue to think that we should allow users to enter = titles, and they should generate h1. There is no rule against a document having more than one h1. Again, the document title is in the <title> element, not in the <h1> element.
true, and this means that we could have the title displayed in a page in anything (<div>), doesn't necessarily have to be semantic, since its semantic is given by its use in the <title>. Normally, from the semantic pov, we should leave it only in title, but it's just that we need to emphasize it for the user.
Why would we put it in a h1 then?
Because it is the best element for the task at hand. It still is a title, so it deserves a heading element.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content) What happens with dynamic titles?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Anca Luca wrote:
Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page. Here's what Mediawiki (on Wikipedia) does:
- the document title is displayed using a h1 id=firstHeading - the content allows using =titles=, which generate h1 - by a natural process, contributors rarely use =titles= in documents
So I continue to think that we should allow users to enter = titles, and they should generate h1. There is no rule against a document having more than one h1. Again, the document title is in the <title> element, not in the <h1> element. true, and this means that we could have the title displayed in a page in anything (<div>), doesn't necessarily have to be semantic, since its semantic is given by its use in the <title>. Normally, from the semantic pov, we should leave it only in title, but it's just that we need to emphasize it for the user.
Why would we put it in a h1 then?
Because it is the best element for the task at hand. It still is a title, so it deserves a heading element.
just thinking if it's ok to have the title of the page as a (html) semantic sibling of its (wiki) semantic children. Also, since the <title> is the title of the page, if the title is a <h1> it's also a child of itself (actually that would be true regardless of the markup we'd use for it...) Happy hacking, Anca
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content) What happens with dynamic titles?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
Hi, On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[email protected]> wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final release so that we're all on the same page.
Here's what Mediawiki (on Wikipedia) does:
- the document title is displayed using a h1 id=firstHeading - the content allows using =titles=, which generate h1 - by a natural process, contributors rarely use =titles= in documents
This is sort of a convention: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/MediaWiki_User_Guide/Sections_and_Headings "Do not use headings of level 1, such as "=Title="; start with level 2 instead. The heading at level 1 is used for the title of the page." just fyi. - Asiri
So I continue to think that we should allow users to enter = titles, and they should generate h1. There is no rule against a document having more than one h1. Again, the document title is in the <title> element, not in the <h1> element.
After talking to several people here's what I propose:
1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same as Colibri) 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and remove the header 1 in page content)
What happens with dynamic titles?
This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally touching the contentview.vm file.
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
participants (7)
-
Anca Luca -
Asiri Rathnayake -
Jean-Vincent Drean -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol