24 Apr
2017
24 Apr
'17
2:18 p.m.
On 24 Apr 2017, at 12:31, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Users can change the URL anytime after the page creation, and that is using
the "Rename" action, although I agree that simple users might not really
see the connection between Rename, URLs and Titles. So yes it would be
ideal to provide the ability to select (reserve) the URL from the creation
page step (for steps optimization purposes).
Now, some important mention is the use case. From what I can assume from
your answers, the majority of you have Wikis / Knowledge Bases. For this
flavor the URLs are important and I quite get the need.
The issue is for users that use XWiki for Groupware / Applications use
case. When your instance is using heavily applications, you don't care
about the URL is generating, you don't care about the nesting, etc. We had
users that requested to never see the Page Name part and actually the
ability to auto-generate the URL with some random numbers that they
shouldn't see.
Which shows that they do care about the URL ;)
I don’t think that the need to be careful about your urls is related to any use
case/flavor. Of course if you’re using XWiki as a public web site you care even more for
the SEO reasons but even for internal use cases you do care about URLs. For the simple
reason that you often need to copy paste URLs in emails, chat rooms, etc.
FTR I remember a lot more users asking to control URLs than users asking to have random
numbers in the URL (AFAIK that one happened only once) so if we had to choose a default,
I’d go with the ability to control URLs by default.
Actually, as mentioned in earlier replies, I’d go about introducing a Component role for
generating the part of the URL related to the document and have a default implementation
just serializing the document name as we do now. And provide a config option to change
that so that if someone wanted, he could implement an extension to change the algorithm
and generate a unique ID instead for ex.
That's why the subject is a bit problematic,
because some users want to
see/alter the Page Name/ URL; while others don't care it exists.
Even those who don’t care about changing the URL know the concept of a URL and they know
that XWiki has URLs. So it’s not because we would show it in the create page URL that they
would get confused.
Thanks
-Vincent
I also don't like the configuration proposal,
since it's always hard to
test all combinations of configurations and we need to decide on the
default.
Not sure about changing it in the Base Flavor, since not all Flavors users
might need it. The UIX could be a solution in order to use it just by some
Flavors.
What is really interesting and good to know is that indeed the Page Name /
URL are important for Knowledge Bases (KB). Still in KBs the content
creators are not that many (compared to readers) and they usually are the
wiki gardeners, and they tend to be 'advanced' users.
The smallest / simplest changes would indeed be in the labels wording and
descriptions. Also the 'URL' mention instead of Page Name.
Thanks,
Caty
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Vishal <thewikinoteorg(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all..
> Thanks for taking the issue this much seriously.
>
> Hi Vincent..
>> Hey, you’re from Pune? :) I’ve been there about 15 times!
> Hey, you are welcome again.. I would expect you to drop me an email while
> visiting Pune next time :)
>
>> Normal users don't generally care about their URLs and SEO.
> Hi Caty..
> You are definitely correct about SEO as simple users don't even know what
> SEO is.
> But I am very sure that even simple users do care about URLs. For instance,
> we share all our educational articles on our wiki in chats, like in
> WhatsApp, Facebook, Gmail, and what not. And they often ask me to clean the
> encoded URLs for them. In last 15 days for instance, I had to rename about
> 250 pages..
>> I don’t fully agree with you. I have the feeling (can’t prove it)
> And I guess this is what Vincent felt but couldn't prove.
>
>> But for your use case you shoyld write a shorting/trimming algorithm, but
>> this is custom
> Yes I agree. It should be custom because not all will want such trimming of
> URLs.
>
>> It may generate nicer urls but they’re not perfect either. They’re a bit
> longish from what I see
> I think we can't and shouldn't force anyone to have short URLs. Long URL
> doesn't seem a problem for us, but inability to shorten them in the first
> place indeed is.
> I disagree with having any shortening algorithm as even we do use full
> names
> in URLs at certain places. e.g. /Pune-University
>
> My Proposal:
> I strongly agree with Vincent about Create Page UI like AWM. This is what
> we
> think will be most user friendly. (Sorry, couldn't upload images but rough
> layout)
>
> *Title: (Tip: Title as shown on Page/Document)
> [Title Textbox]
>
> URL: (Tip: this is a webaddress)
> [Non editable initial part of URL][Textbox for last part of URL]
>
> Location: (Tip: location of page in wiki)
> [Documents tree/Parent]*
>
> In above layout, we could use algorithm at URL section just to make them
> more readable (removing ecoded characters), nothing else.
>
> And it would be nice to have this universally editable, no need of any
> options like ALWAYS, NEVER, etc. Also no need to restrict it to just
> advanced users, because mostly users who could create a page would know
> about URLs.
>
> Very much thanks for this wonderful discussion.
> Regards,
> Vishal
>
>
>
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