9 Mar
2012
9 Mar
'12
2:03 p.m.
Hello
I am a new user of X-Wiki Cloud.
I am trying to use it to develop a Knowledge base for our Project. I chose
to use X-Wiki Cloud because it appeared to be the WIKI tool that had the
best set of Big Time Capabilities and because it was Extensible and would
work with many different architectures. It seemed to offer the most
flexibility for the long haul.
To date I have opened a free account and started to post some content &
links. However; I am having a VERY difficult time understanding how
I organize & manage Spaces, Pages & General Content. I am particularly
frustrated in that, I cannot seem to find a way to manage the headings or
titles (SPACES) that appear on our Dashboard. X-Wiki Cloud starts one out
with things like Annotation Code, AppWithinMInutes,
ApplicationSecurityBackgroundInformation, Blog, . I do not need to see
those Tool Boxes, nor do I want my partner to see them as he learns how to
use the X-Wiki Cloud tool.
Right now I am struggling as I try to manage it and 'Dumb it Down' so I can
start out learning it & using it to build a relatively simple Knowledge
Base.
Can anyone help me with this?
Ken Jennings
Toronto Canada
12 Mar
12 Mar
2:30 p.m.
Hi,
you can easily dumb it down by replacing the content of the homepage
by some static content with links.
Here's an example: http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Documentation
JV.
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Ken Jennings <kennethwjennings(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello
I am a new user of X-Wiki Cloud.
I am trying to use it to develop a Knowledge base for our Project. I chose
to use X-Wiki Cloud because it appeared to be the WIKI tool that had the
best set of Big Time Capabilities and because it was Extensible and would
work with many different architectures. It seemed to offer the most
flexibility for the long haul.
To date I have opened a free account and started to post some content &
links. However; I am having a VERY difficult time understanding how
I organize & manage Spaces, Pages & General Content. I am particularly
frustrated in that, I cannot seem to find a way to manage the headings or
titles (SPACES) that appear on our Dashboard. X-Wiki Cloud starts one out
with things like Annotation Code, AppWithinMInutes,
ApplicationSecurityBackgroundInformation, Blog, . I do not need to see
those Tool Boxes, nor do I want my partner to see them as he learns how to
use the X-Wiki Cloud tool.
Right now I am struggling as I try to manage it and 'Dumb it Down' so I can
start out learning it & using it to build a relatively simple Knowledge
Base.
Can anyone help me with this?
Ken Jennings
Toronto Canada
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
--
Jean-Vincent Drean,
XWiki.
15 Mar
15 Mar
2:57 p.m.
I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and provide another data point to represent
the beginners out there who may be turned off by the learning curve. This
is something of a long post but I hope my concerns will be helpful to
others.
XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
(internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced that in
the long run it's better for us than any of the other options. I'm primarily
a .NET developer familiar with Java, Python, SQL, etc. I've set up the the
whole shebang from scratch using SQL Server, Tomcat, and all the rest. I've
created a new space, added some lengthy content with images, and restricted
views of unregistered guests.
Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic information
on editing the very first page we all see. The page itself says it's easy!
Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits. Try editing in Wiki mode -
unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to "Welcome
to
MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on that last part).
I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour or so
figure out how to get the home page redirected there, but that is a lot of
work for simply wanting to change the introductory text in the main page to
say something meaningful to my co-workers to get them interested. Then I
can go on the learn the programming part later.
The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between getting
things running and taking the first meaningful step towards controlling the
application. If I am also not a programmer, then that gap is even larger.
Questions:
- I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard app/tool
thingy works. Having such a tutorial linked on the documentation page would
be ideal, it would be a great learning tool and introduction to the more
interesting features of XWiki.
- In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find $msg.get
keys so I can change reuse them, find out how they are intended to be used,
maybe even change them. Lots of parameters used in that tool are very
difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs don't
seem to cover this.
Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it even if
I don't figure out the dashboard :). If some kind soul wanted to detail
some explanations of the dashboard, and maybe create a HOWTO list of
beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure. Maybe
such a thing exists and I just haven't found it yet?
Many thanks,
-Chris.
--
View this message in context:
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
4:11 p.m.
Hi all,
Thanks for your feedback. In the 4.0 timeframe we are planning to make some
proposal that will improve the content of the homepage. This include
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7568 (problem mentioned by Ken)
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XE-1117 (somehow related to what Chris
mentioned)
and I plan to propose some improvements on how the dashboard is displayed
in inline mode.
There is also a proposal for the first minute wizard
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWiki5MinutesPropo…
that can show users what they can do on the homepage.
But from this list some may make it or not in 4.0. Also improving the
Homepage and improving the Dashboard are kind of different things.
Regarding the Dashboard documentation there is
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Dashboard+Macro
Regarding the $msg.get you can replace it by a custom string or read
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
I know there are lots of areas that could be covered in documentation and
everyone is invited in making the doc more complete.
Also the suggestion to have a documentation link about the Dashboard on the
homepage is tricky because other users would want maybe Activity Stream
doc, etc. Finding a content that would please the majority of the users is
the tricky part.
Your feedback on this thread
[investigation] XWiki 5 minutes Experience - Need users' help:
http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/vcx45otjgjpaca6a
would be very welcomed.
Thanks,
Caty
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 15:57, Chris Bennett <cbennett(a)geofields.com> wrote:
I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and provide another
data point to represent
the beginners out there who may be turned off by the learning curve. This
is something of a long post but I hope my concerns will be helpful to
others.
XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
(internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced that in
the long run it's better for us than any of the other options. I'm
primarily
a .NET developer familiar with Java, Python, SQL, etc. I've set up the the
whole shebang from scratch using SQL Server, Tomcat, and all the rest.
I've
created a new space, added some lengthy content with images, and restricted
views of unregistered guests.
Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic information
on editing the very first page we all see. The page itself says it's easy!
Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits. Try editing in Wiki mode -
unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to "Welcome
to
MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on that last part).
I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour or so
figure out how to get the home page redirected there, but that is a lot of
work for simply wanting to change the introductory text in the main page to
say something meaningful to my co-workers to get them interested. Then I
can go on the learn the programming part later.
The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between getting
things running and taking the first meaningful step towards controlling the
application. If I am also not a programmer, then that gap is even larger.
Questions:
- I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard app/tool
thingy works. Having such a tutorial linked on the documentation page
would
be ideal, it would be a great learning tool and introduction to the more
interesting features of XWiki.
- In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find
$msg.get
keys so I can change reuse them, find out how they are intended to be used,
maybe even change them. Lots of parameters used in that tool are very
difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs
don't
seem to cover this.
Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it even if
I don't figure out the dashboard :). If some kind soul wanted to detail
some explanations of the dashboard, and maybe create a HOWTO list of
beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure. Maybe
such a thing exists and I just haven't found it yet?
Many thanks,
-Chris.
--
View this message in context:
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
4:17 p.m.
A path that you can take to edit the home page is:
* Go to the home page
* Click Edit
* Notice the "One included document" in the information panel (I know..)
* Click on the Dashboard.WebHome link
* Click Edit
* You're taken to the dashboard editor where you can add/remove/edit gadgets
* Hover over one of the gadgets and a wheel icon will appear that will
give you more options when clicked
* Edit the first gadget, "Welcome to your wiki"
* Notice that this gadget is actually an include macro and the
included document is Main.Welcome
* Go to Main.Welcome and change the content
As for $msg.get('something') see
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
Hope this helps,
Marius
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Bennett <cbennett(a)geofields.com> wrote:
I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and provide another
data point to represent
the beginners out there who may be turned off by the learning curve. This
is something of a long post but I hope my concerns will be helpful to
others.
XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
(internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced that in
the long run it's better for us than any of the other options. I'm primarily
a .NET developer familiar with Java, Python, SQL, etc. I've set up the the
whole shebang from scratch using SQL Server, Tomcat, and all the rest. I've
created a new space, added some lengthy content with images, and restricted
views of unregistered guests.
Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic information
on editing the very first page we all see. The page itself says it's easy!
Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits. Try editing in Wiki mode -
unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to "Welcome
to
MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on that last part).
I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour or so
figure out how to get the home page redirected there, but that is a lot of
work for simply wanting to change the introductory text in the main page to
say something meaningful to my co-workers to get them interested. Then I
can go on the learn the programming part later.
The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between getting
things running and taking the first meaningful step towards controlling the
application. If I am also not a programmer, then that gap is even larger.
Questions:
- I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard app/tool
thingy works. Having such a tutorial linked on the documentation page would
be ideal, it would be a great learning tool and introduction to the more
interesting features of XWiki.
- In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find $msg.get
keys so I can change reuse them, find out how they are intended to be used,
maybe even change them. Lots of parameters used in that tool are very
difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs don't
seem to cover this.
Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it even if
I don't figure out the dashboard :). If some kind soul wanted to detail
some explanations of the dashboard, and maybe create a HOWTO list of
beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure. Maybe
such a thing exists and I just haven't found it yet?
Many thanks,
-Chris.
--
View this message in context:
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
4:44 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Making it user-friendly to edit pages with macros for new users (was Re: Need some Help & Explanations)
On Mar 15, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
A path that you can take to edit the home page is:
* Go to the home page
* Click Edit
* Notice the "One included document" in the information panel (I know..)
What we need to somehow make clear is that the home page content is just using an include
macro to include the content located at Dashboard.WebHome.
This makes it very easy to replace the home page by your own content.
What makes it hard is that our WYSIWYG is … WYSIWYG… :)
So it hides what's underneath (the include macro) and displays the result of executing
the include macro.
Several ideas below.
Idea 1:
======
What we could do Marius is start introducing custom WYSIWYG renderers for macros maybe so
that a macro can contribute a custom WYSIWYG renderer. The include macro could then bring
a custom WYSIWYG renderer that could somehow make it clear that this content come from
such document with a button to go and edit that document's content.
Idea 2:
======
Always start the WYSIWYG with folded macros so that the user sees the structure of the
page very clearly. He can then decide voluntarily to render the macro content by enabling
that in the toolbar or in a menu item.
Idea 3
======
Start introducing custom editors for macro and implement a custom Include Macro editor
that would not only display the include macro param as now but at the top of the editor
have some text that explains that the content displayed comes from such other page and
have a big button that you can click to edit the content of that page (when clicked we
would edit that page in WYSIWYG mode - we'd need a way to go back too ;)).
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
* Click on the Dashboard.WebHome link
* Click Edit
* You're taken to the dashboard editor where you can add/remove/edit gadgets
* Hover over one of the gadgets and a wheel icon will appear that will
give you more options when clicked
* Edit the first gadget, "Welcome to your wiki"
* Notice that this gadget is actually an include macro and the
included document is Main.Welcome
* Go to Main.Welcome and change the content
As for $msg.get('something') see
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
Hope this helps,
Marius
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Bennett <cbennett(a)geofields.com> wrote:
I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and provide
another data point to represent
the beginners out there who may be turned off by the learning curve. This
is something of a long post but I hope my concerns will be helpful to
others.
XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
(internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced that in
the long run it's better for us than any of the other options. I'm primarily
a .NET developer familiar with Java, Python, SQL, etc. I've set up the the
whole shebang from scratch using SQL Server, Tomcat, and all the rest. I've
created a new space, added some lengthy content with images, and restricted
views of unregistered guests.
Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic information
on editing the very first page we all see. The page itself says it's easy!
Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits. Try editing in Wiki mode -
unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to "Welcome
to
MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on that last part).
I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour or so
figure out how to get the home page redirected there, but that is a lot of
work for simply wanting to change the introductory text in the main page to
say something meaningful to my co-workers to get them interested. Then I
can go on the learn the programming part later.
The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between getting
things running and taking the first meaningful step towards controlling the
application. If I am also not a programmer, then that gap is even larger.
Questions:
- I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard app/tool
thingy works. Having such a tutorial linked on the documentation page would
be ideal, it would be a great learning tool and introduction to the more
interesting features of XWiki.
- In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find $msg.get
keys so I can change reuse them, find out how they are intended to be used,
maybe even change them. Lots of parameters used in that tool are very
difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs don't
seem to cover this.
Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it even if
I don't figure out the dashboard :). If some kind soul wanted to detail
some explanations of the dashboard, and maybe create a HOWTO list of
beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure. Maybe
such a thing exists and I just haven't found it yet?
Many thanks,
-Chris.
--
View this message in context:
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
4:46 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Making it user-friendly to edit pages with macros for new users (was Re: Need some Help & Explanations)
On Mar 15, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
On Mar 15, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
For idea3 to work the user would still need to figure out that he can double click on the
content he sees… So maybe that could be combined with 1 or 2.
Thanks
-Vincent
A path that you can take to edit the home page
is:
* Go to the home page
* Click Edit
* Notice the "One included document" in the information panel (I know..)
What we need to somehow make clear is that the home page content is just using an include
macro to include the content located at Dashboard.WebHome.
This makes it very easy to replace the home page by your own content.
What makes it hard is that our WYSIWYG is … WYSIWYG… :)
So it hides what's underneath (the include macro) and displays the result of
executing the include macro.
Several ideas below.
Idea 1:
======
What we could do Marius is start introducing custom WYSIWYG renderers for macros maybe so
that a macro can contribute a custom WYSIWYG renderer. The include macro could then bring
a custom WYSIWYG renderer that could somehow make it clear that this content come from
such document with a button to go and edit that document's content.
Idea 2:
======
Always start the WYSIWYG with folded macros so that the user sees the structure of the
page very clearly. He can then decide voluntarily to render the macro content by enabling
that in the toolbar or in a menu item.
Idea 3
======
Start introducing custom editors for macro and implement a custom Include Macro editor
that would not only display the include macro param as now but at the top of the editor
have some text that explains that the content displayed comes from such other page and
have a big button that you can click to edit the content of that page (when clicked we
would edit that page in WYSIWYG mode - we'd need a way to go back too ;)). WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
* Click on the Dashboard.WebHome link
* Click Edit
* You're taken to the dashboard editor where you can add/remove/edit gadgets
* Hover over one of the gadgets and a wheel icon will appear that will
give you more options when clicked
* Edit the first gadget, "Welcome to your wiki"
* Notice that this gadget is actually an include macro and the
included document is Main.Welcome
* Go to Main.Welcome and change the content
As for $msg.get('something') see
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
Hope this helps,
Marius
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Bennett <cbennett(a)geofields.com> wrote:
I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and provide
another data point to represent
the beginners out there who may be turned off by the learning curve. This
is something of a long post but I hope my concerns will be helpful to
others.
XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
(internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced that in
the long run it's better for us than any of the other options. I'm primarily
a .NET developer familiar with Java, Python, SQL, etc. I've set up the the
whole shebang from scratch using SQL Server, Tomcat, and all the rest. I've
created a new space, added some lengthy content with images, and restricted
views of unregistered guests.
Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic information
on editing the very first page we all see. The page itself says it's easy!
Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits. Try editing in Wiki mode -
unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to "Welcome
to
MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on that last part).
I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour or so
figure out how to get the home page redirected there, but that is a lot of
work for simply wanting to change the introductory text in the main page to
say something meaningful to my co-workers to get them interested. Then I
can go on the learn the programming part later.
The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between getting
things running and taking the first meaningful step towards controlling the
application. If I am also not a programmer, then that gap is even larger.
Questions:
- I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard app/tool
thingy works. Having such a tutorial linked on the documentation page would
be ideal, it would be a great learning tool and introduction to the more
interesting features of XWiki.
- In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find $msg.get
keys so I can change reuse them, find out how they are intended to be used,
maybe even change them. Lots of parameters used in that tool are very
difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs don't
seem to cover this.
Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it even if
I don't figure out the dashboard :). If some kind soul wanted to detail
some explanations of the dashboard, and maybe create a HOWTO list of
beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure. Maybe
such a thing exists and I just haven't found it yet?
Many thanks,
-Chris.
--
View this message in context:
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users 
5:13 p.m.
Hi Chris,
or, more straightforward:
- Edit the page
- Click on the "Source" tab
- Remove everything and put some nice text instead
- Also remove the title and replace it with content of your choice
- You're done!
Guillaume
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 16:17, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
A path that you can take to edit the home page is:
* Go to the home page
* Click Edit
* Notice the "One included document" in the information panel (I know..)
* Click on the Dashboard.WebHome link
* Click Edit
* You're taken to the dashboard editor where you can add/remove/edit
gadgets
* Hover over one of the gadgets and a wheel icon will appear that will
give you more options when clicked
* Edit the first gadget, "Welcome to your wiki"
* Notice that this gadget is actually an include macro and the
included document is Main.Welcome
* Go to Main.Welcome and change the content
As for $msg.get('something') see
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
Hope this helps,
Marius
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Bennett <cbennett(a)geofields.com>
wrote:
I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and provide
another data point to
represent
the beginners out there who may be turned off by
the learning curve.
This
is something of a long post but I hope my
concerns will be helpful to
others.
XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
(internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced that
in
the long run it's better for us than any of
the other options. I'm
primarily
a .NET developer familiar with Java, Python, SQL,
etc. I've set up the
the
whole shebang from scratch using SQL Server,
Tomcat, and all the rest.
I've
created a new space, added some lengthy content
with images, and
restricted
views of unregistered guests.
Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic
information
on editing the very first page we all see. The
page itself says it's
easy!
Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits. Try
editing in Wiki mode -
unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to "Welcome
to
MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on that
last part).
I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour or
so
figure out how to get the home page redirected
there, but that is a lot
of
work for simply wanting to change the
introductory text in the main page
to
say something meaningful to my co-workers to get
them interested. Then I
can go on the learn the programming part later.
The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between
getting
things running and taking the first meaningful
step towards controlling
the
application. If I am also not a programmer, then
that gap is even
larger.
Questions:
- I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard
app/tool
thingy works. Having such a tutorial linked on
the documentation page
would
be ideal, it would be a great learning tool and
introduction to the more
interesting features of XWiki.
- In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find
$msg.get
keys so I can change reuse them, find out how
they are intended to be
used,
maybe even change them. Lots of parameters used
in that tool are very
difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs
don't
seem to cover this.
Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it even
if
I don't figure out the dashboard :). If some
kind soul wanted to detail
some explanations of the dashboard, and maybe create a HOWTO list of
beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure. Maybe
such a thing exists and I just haven't found it yet?
Many thanks,
-Chris.
--
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_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
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http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
5:18 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 17:17, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
A path that you can take to edit the home page is:
* Go to the home page
* Click Edit
* Notice the "One included document" in the information panel (I know..)
* Click on the Dashboard.WebHome link
* Click Edit
or with an "Advanced User" click directly on Edit: Inline Form
* You're taken to the dashboard editor where you
can add/remove/edit
gadgets
* Hover over one of the gadgets and a wheel icon will appear that will
give you more options when clicked
* Edit the first gadget, "Welcome to your wiki"
* Notice that this gadget is actually an include macro and the
included document is Main.Welcome
* Go to Main.Welcome and change the content
As for $msg.get('something') see
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
Hope this helps,
Marius
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Bennett <cbennett(a)geofields.com>
wrote:
I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and provide
another data point to
represent
the beginners out there who may be turned off by
the learning curve.
This
is something of a long post but I hope my
concerns will be helpful to
others.
XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
(internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced that
in
the long run it's better for us than any of
the other options. I'm
primarily
a .NET developer familiar with Java, Python, SQL,
etc. I've set up the
the
whole shebang from scratch using SQL Server,
Tomcat, and all the rest.
I've
created a new space, added some lengthy content
with images, and
restricted
views of unregistered guests.
Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic
information
on editing the very first page we all see. The
page itself says it's
easy!
Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits. Try
editing in Wiki mode -
unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to "Welcome
to
MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on that
last part).
I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour or
so
figure out how to get the home page redirected
there, but that is a lot
of
work for simply wanting to change the
introductory text in the main page
to
say something meaningful to my co-workers to get
them interested. Then I
can go on the learn the programming part later.
The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between
getting
things running and taking the first meaningful
step towards controlling
the
application. If I am also not a programmer, then
that gap is even
larger.
Questions:
- I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard
app/tool
thingy works. Having such a tutorial linked on
the documentation page
would
be ideal, it would be a great learning tool and
introduction to the more
interesting features of XWiki.
- In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find
$msg.get
keys so I can change reuse them, find out how
they are intended to be
used,
maybe even change them. Lots of parameters used
in that tool are very
difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs
don't
seem to cover this.
Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it even
if
I don't figure out the dashboard :). If some
kind soul wanted to detail
some explanations of the dashboard, and maybe create a HOWTO list of
beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure. Maybe
such a thing exists and I just haven't found it yet?
Many thanks,
-Chris.
--
View this message in context:
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
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at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
5:22 p.m.
Caty,
Thanks very much for your speedy and detailed answer. I'm glad to see that
the first few minutes' experience has a high priority for documentation. I
will be looking closely at the links you gave and will be happy to provide
feedback where I can.
Regarding the documentation link for the Dashboard vs Activity Stream, I
would think either would work as long as the same ideas are covered. For
example, there should be no need to detail the syntax of velocity or groovy,
but maybe links to more information for each idea is sufficient. Like with
the dashboard code, perhaps an image of the code and a graphic pointer from
the $context.user token to a link that points to the context object (e.g.,
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/Scripting, but that's not
quite right actually). In other words, a visual map of the interesting
parts of the script with links to *details on that specific usage*, not just
to a generic API page. Maybe an intermediate page that details all the
script's ideas, in order, with links to specific topics. Anyway, just some
ideas that come to mind. I'm sure you've already thought of these.
-Chris.
--
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5:22 p.m.
On Mar 15, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi Chris,
or, more straightforward:
- Edit the page
- Click on the "Source" tab
- Remove everything and put some nice text instead
- Also remove the title and replace it with content of your choice
- You're done!
Why do you need to go to the source tab?
As Chris said it contains gibberish and it's not needed.
If you wish to replace the content, just edit it, select the content and click
"backspace". this will remove the macro.
Thanks
-Vincent
Guillaume
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 16:17, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
A path that you can take to edit the home page
is:
* Go to the home page
* Click Edit
* Notice the "One included document" in the information panel (I know..)
* Click on the Dashboard.WebHome link
* Click Edit
* You're taken to the dashboard editor where you can add/remove/edit
gadgets
* Hover over one of the gadgets and a wheel icon will appear that will
give you more options when clicked
* Edit the first gadget, "Welcome to your wiki"
* Notice that this gadget is actually an include macro and the
included document is Main.Welcome
* Go to Main.Welcome and change the content
As for $msg.get('something') see
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
Hope this helps,
Marius
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Bennett <cbennett(a)geofields.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and provide
another data point to
represent
the beginners out there who may be turned off by
the learning curve.
This
is something of a long post but I hope my
concerns will be helpful to
others.
XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
(internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced that
in
the long run it's better for us than any of
the other options. I'm
primarily
a .NET developer familiar with Java, Python, SQL,
etc. I've set up the
the
whole shebang from scratch using SQL Server,
Tomcat, and all the rest.
I've
created a new space, added some lengthy content
with images, and
restricted
views of unregistered guests.
Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic
information
on editing the very first page we all see. The
page itself says it's
easy!
Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits. Try
editing in Wiki mode -
unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to "Welcome
to
MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on that
last part).
I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour or
so
figure out how to get the home page redirected
there, but that is a lot
of
work for simply wanting to change the
introductory text in the main page
to
say something meaningful to my co-workers to get
them interested. Then I
can go on the learn the programming part later.
The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between
getting
things running and taking the first meaningful
step towards controlling
the
application. If I am also not a programmer, then
that gap is even
larger.
Questions:
- I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard
app/tool
thingy works. Having such a tutorial linked on
the documentation page
would
be ideal, it would be a great learning tool and
introduction to the more
interesting features of XWiki.
- In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find
$msg.get
keys so I can change reuse them, find out how
they are intended to be
used,
maybe even change them. Lots of parameters used
in that tool are very
difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs
don't
seem to cover this.
Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it even
if
I don't figure out the dashboard :). If some
kind soul wanted to detail
some explanations of the dashboard, and maybe create a HOWTO list of
beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure. Maybe
such a thing exists and I just haven't found it yet?
Many thanks,
-Chris.
--
View this message in context:
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive
at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
5:41 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Making it user-friendly to edit pages with macros for new users (was Re: Need some Help & Explanations)
What I would like is something similar that we have for 'Included
documents' but that shows the included macros on the page. Something is
hard to know where they are located and how you can access them (especially
if you are new and don't know about XWiki.WikiMacros). Something like an
'Included Macros' info in the panel:
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/WebHome/includ…
(if the macro is defined in the same document, clicking on the 'Edit' would
take you to the object editor).
Regarding a better location (like Vincent suggested at the top of the
editor) was this proposal
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/ImprovedEdit/p…
Regarding 'a way to go back' we could have instead of 'Included macros'
something like 'Included by' (with a backlink mechanism).
Thanks,
Caty
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 17:46, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On Mar 15, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
On Mar 15, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
using an
include macro to include the content located at Dashboard.WebHome.
A path that you can take to edit the home page
is:
* Go to the home page
* Click Edit
* Notice the "One included document" in the information panel (I know..)
What we need to somehow make clear is that the home page content is just
This makes it very easy to replace the home page by your own content.
What makes it hard is that our WYSIWYG is … WYSIWYG… :)
So it hides what's underneath (the include macro) and displays the
result of
executing the include macro.
Several ideas below.
Idea 1:
======
What we could do Marius is start introducing custom WYSIWYG renderers
for macros
maybe so that a macro can contribute a custom WYSIWYG renderer.
The include macro could then bring a custom WYSIWYG renderer that could
somehow make it clear that this content come from such document with a
button to go and edit that document's content.
Idea 2:
======
Always start the WYSIWYG with folded macros so that the user sees the
structure of
the page very clearly. He can then decide voluntarily to
render the macro content by enabling that in the toolbar or in a menu item.
Idea 3
======
Start introducing custom editors for macro and implement a custom
Include Macro
editor that would not only display the include macro param as
now but at the top of the editor have some text that explains that the
content displayed comes from such other page and have a big button that you
can click to edit the content of that page (when clicked we would edit that
page in WYSIWYG mode - we'd need a way to go back too ;)).
For idea3 to work the user would still need to figure out that he can
double click on the content he sees… So maybe that could be combined with 1
or 2.
Thanks
-Vincent
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
> * Click on the Dashboard.WebHome link
> * Click Edit
> * You're taken to the dashboard editor where you can add/remove/edit
gadgets
> * Hover over one of the gadgets and a wheel
icon will appear that will
> give you more options when clicked
> * Edit the first gadget, "Welcome to your wiki"
> * Notice that this gadget is actually an include macro and the
> included document is Main.Welcome
> * Go to Main.Welcome and change the content
>
> As for $msg.get('something') see
>
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
>
> Hope this helps,
> Marius
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Bennett <cbennett(a)geofields.com>
wrote:
>> I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and
provide another data point to
represent
>> the beginners out there who may be turned
off by the learning curve.
This
>> is something of a long post but I hope my
concerns will be helpful to
>> others.
>>
>> XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
>> (internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced
that in
>> the long run it's better for us than
any of the other options. I'm
primarily
>> a .NET developer familiar with Java,
Python, SQL, etc. I've set up
the the
>> whole shebang from scratch using SQL
Server, Tomcat, and all the rest.
I've
>> created a new space, added some lengthy
content with images, and
restricted
>> views of unregistered guests.
>>
>> Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic
information
>> on editing the very first page we all
see. The page itself says it's
easy!
>> Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits.
Try editing in Wiki mode -
>> unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
>> paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
>>
>> I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
>> dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
>> schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to
"Welcome to
>> MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on
that last part).
>>
>> I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour
or
so
>> figure out how to get the home page
redirected there, but that is a
lot of
>> work for simply wanting to change the
introductory text in the main
page to
>> say something meaningful to my co-workers
to get them interested.
Then I
>> can go on the learn the programming part
later.
>>
>> The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between
getting
>> things running and taking the first
meaningful step towards
controlling the
>> application. If I am also not a
programmer, then that gap is even
larger.
>>
>> Questions:
>> - I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard
app/tool
>> thingy works. Having such a tutorial
linked on the documentation page
would
>> be ideal, it would be a great learning
tool and introduction to the
more
>> interesting features of XWiki.
>>
>> - In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find
$msg.get
>> keys so I can change reuse them, find out
how they are intended to be
used,
>> maybe even change them. Lots of
parameters used in that tool are very
>> difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs
don't
>> seem to cover this.
>>
>> Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it
even if
>> I don't figure out the dashboard :).
If some kind soul wanted to
detail
>> some explanations of the dashboard, and
maybe create a HOWTO list of
>> beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure.
Maybe
>> such a thing exists and I just
haven't found it yet?
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> -Chris.
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
5:48 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Making it user-friendly to edit pages with macros for new users (was Re: Need some Help & Explanations)
Hi All,
At Vincent's point, I appreciate the fact that I can just overwrite the
contents, but the programmer in me wants to modify the source, in case I
want to re-use the macro elsewhere. The programmability of XWiki is a great
thing and getting a first five minutes introduction to the location and
meaning of these items would be more useful to me in the long run. On the
other hand, if I just want to start adding content, then that's good also.
Thanks,
-Chris.
--
View this message in context:
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Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
6:13 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Making it user-friendly to edit pages with macros for new users (was Re: Need some Help & Explanations)
Hi Caty,
On Mar 15, 2012, at 5:41 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
What I would like is something similar that we have
for 'Included
documents' but that shows the included macros on the page. Something is
hard to know where they are located and how you can access them (especially
if you are new and don't know about XWiki.WikiMacros). Something like an
'Included Macros' info in the panel:
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/WebHome/includ…
(if the macro is defined in the same document, clicking on the 'Edit' would
take you to the object editor).
I don't like this because the include macro is just a macro, it doesn't have
anything special. We need a solution for *all* Macros.
As a quick counter example, I can create a custom wiki macro called "myinclude"
which simply calls the include macro.
But again that's true for any macro since any macro can render content.
This is why the ideas I've suggested were generic ideas.
Regarding a better location (like Vincent suggested at
the top of the
editor) was this proposal
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/ImprovedEdit/p…
This looks like a different proposal not related to this thread.
Regarding 'a way to go back' we could have
instead of 'Included macros'
something like 'Included by' (with a backlink mechanism).
Again that's not generic and needs to work for all macros.
Going back to a previous page can be something generic that we implement in the UI.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Caty
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 17:46, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On Mar 15, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
On Mar 15, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
using an
include macro to include the content located at Dashboard.WebHome.
A path that you can take to edit the home page
is:
* Go to the home page
* Click Edit
* Notice the "One included document" in the information panel (I know..)
What we need to somehow make clear is that the home page content is just
This makes it very easy to replace the home page by your own content.
What makes it hard is that our WYSIWYG is … WYSIWYG… :)
So it hides what's underneath (the include macro) and displays the
result of
executing the include macro.
Several ideas below.
Idea 1:
======
What we could do Marius is start introducing custom WYSIWYG renderers
for macros
maybe so that a macro can contribute a custom WYSIWYG renderer.
The include macro could then bring a custom WYSIWYG renderer that could
somehow make it clear that this content come from such document with a
button to go and edit that document's content.
Idea 2:
======
Always start the WYSIWYG with folded macros so that the user sees the
structure of
the page very clearly. He can then decide voluntarily to
render the macro content by enabling that in the toolbar or in a menu item.
Idea 3
======
Start introducing custom editors for macro and implement a custom
Include Macro
editor that would not only display the include macro param as
now but at the top of the editor have some text that explains that the
content displayed comes from such other page and have a big button that you
can click to edit the content of that page (when clicked we would edit that
page in WYSIWYG mode - we'd need a way to go back too ;)).
For idea3 to work the user would still need to figure out that he can
double click on the content he sees… So maybe that could be combined with 1
or 2.
Thanks
-Vincent
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
> * Click on the Dashboard.WebHome link
> * Click Edit
> * You're taken to the dashboard editor where you can add/remove/edit
gadgets
> * Hover over one of the gadgets and a wheel
icon will appear that will
> give you more options when clicked
> * Edit the first gadget, "Welcome to your wiki"
> * Notice that this gadget is actually an include macro and the
> included document is Main.Welcome
> * Go to Main.Welcome and change the content
>
> As for $msg.get('something') see
>
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
>
> Hope this helps,
> Marius
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Bennett <cbennett(a)geofields.com>
wrote:
>> I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and
provide another data point to
represent
>> the beginners out there who may be turned
off by the learning curve.
This
>> is something of a long post but I hope my
concerns will be helpful to
>> others.
>>
>> XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
>> (internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced
that in
>> the long run it's better for us than
any of the other options. I'm
primarily
>> a .NET developer familiar with Java,
Python, SQL, etc. I've set up
the the
>> whole shebang from scratch using SQL
Server, Tomcat, and all the rest.
I've
>> created a new space, added some lengthy
content with images, and
restricted
>> views of unregistered guests.
>>
>> Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic
information
>> on editing the very first page we all
see. The page itself says it's
easy!
>> Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits.
Try editing in Wiki mode -
>> unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it" (I'm
>> paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make sense yet.
>>
>> I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with the
>> dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the database
>> schema looking for "Welcome to your wiki" so I can change it to
"Welcome to
>> MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on
that last part).
>>
>> I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour
or
so
>> figure out how to get the home page
redirected there, but that is a
lot of
>> work for simply wanting to change the
introductory text in the main
page to
>> say something meaningful to my co-workers
to get them interested.
Then I
>> can go on the learn the programming part
later.
>>
>> The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between
getting
>> things running and taking the first
meaningful step towards
controlling the
>> application. If I am also not a
programmer, then that gap is even
larger.
>>
>> Questions:
>> - I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard
app/tool
>> thingy works. Having such a tutorial
linked on the documentation page
would
>> be ideal, it would be a great learning
tool and introduction to the
more
>> interesting features of XWiki.
>>
>> - In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find
$msg.get
>> keys so I can change reuse them, find out
how they are intended to be
used,
>> maybe even change them. Lots of
parameters used in that tool are very
>> difficult to find. How to know where to find even more? The API docs
don't
>> seem to cover this.
>>
>> Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it
even if
>> I don't figure out the dashboard :).
If some kind soul wanted to
detail
>> some explanations of the dashboard, and
maybe create a HOWTO list of
>> beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure.
Maybe
>> such a thing exists and I just
haven't found it yet?
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> -Chris.
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
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6:49 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Making it user-friendly to edit pages with macros for new users (was Re: Need some Help & Explanations)
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 19:13, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi Caty,
On Mar 15, 2012, at 5:41 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
or just rely on the 'Back' button from the browser.
Thanks,
Caty
What I would like is something similar that we
have for 'Included
documents' but that shows the included macros on the page. Something is
hard to know where they are located and how you can access them
(especially
if you are new and don't know about
XWiki.WikiMacros). Something like an
'Included Macros' info in the panel:
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/WebHome/includ…
(if the macro is defined in the same document,
clicking on the 'Edit'
would
take you to the object editor).
I don't like this because the include macro is just a macro, it doesn't
have anything special. We need a solution for *all* Macros.
As a quick counter example, I can create a custom wiki macro called
"myinclude" which simply calls the include macro.
But again that's true for any macro since any macro can render content.
This is why the ideas I've suggested were generic ideas.
Regarding a better location (like Vincent
suggested at the top of the
editor) was this proposal
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/ImprovedEdit/p…
This looks like a different proposal not related to this thread.
Regarding 'a way to go back' we could
have instead of 'Included macros'
something like 'Included by' (with a backlink mechanism).
Again that's not generic and needs to work for all macros.
Going back to a previous page can be something generic that we implement
in the UI.
Thanks
-Vincent
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Thanks,
Caty
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 17:46, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>
> On Mar 15, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mar 15, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
>>
>>> A path that you can take to edit the home page is:
>>>
>>> * Go to the home page
>>> * Click Edit
>>> * Notice the "One included document" in the information panel (I
know..)
>>
>> What we need to somehow make clear is that the home page content is
just
> using an include macro to include the content
located at
Dashboard.WebHome.
>>
>> This makes it very easy to replace the home page by your own content.
>>
>> What makes it hard is that our WYSIWYG is … WYSIWYG… :)
>> So it hides what's underneath (the include macro) and displays the
> result of executing the include macro.
>>
>> Several ideas below.
>>
>> Idea 1:
>> ======
>>
>> What we could do Marius is start introducing custom WYSIWYG renderers
> for macros maybe so that a macro can contribute a custom WYSIWYG
renderer.
> The include macro could then bring a custom
WYSIWYG renderer that could
> somehow make it clear that this content come from such document with a
> button to go and edit that document's content.
>>
>> Idea 2:
>> ======
>>
>> Always start the WYSIWYG with folded macros so that the user sees the
> structure of the page very clearly. He can then decide voluntarily to
> render the macro content by enabling that in the toolbar or in a menu
item.
>>
>> Idea 3
>> ======
>>
>> Start introducing custom editors for macro and implement a custom
> Include Macro editor that would not only display the include macro
param as
> now but at the top of the editor have some
text that explains that the
> content displayed comes from such other page and have a big button that
you
> can click to edit the content of that page
(when clicked we would edit
that
> page in WYSIWYG mode - we'd need a way to
go back too ;)).
>
> For idea3 to work the user would still need to figure out that he can
> double click on the content he sees… So maybe that could be combined
with 1
> or 2.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>
>>> * Click on the Dashboard.WebHome link
>>> * Click Edit
>>> * You're taken to the dashboard editor where you can add/remove/edit
> gadgets
>>> * Hover over one of the gadgets and a wheel icon will appear that will
>>> give you more options when clicked
>>> * Edit the first gadget, "Welcome to your wiki"
>>> * Notice that this gadget is actually an include macro and the
>>> included document is Main.Welcome
>>> * Go to Main.Welcome and change the content
>>>
>>> As for $msg.get('something') see
>>>
>
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InternationalizingApplica…
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Marius
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Bennett <
cbennett(a)geofields.com>
> wrote:
>>>> I want to echo Ken's thoughts, and provide another data point to
> represent
>>>> the beginners out there who may be turned off by the learning curve.
> This
>>>> is something of a long post but I hope my concerns will be helpful to
>>>> others.
>>>>
>>>> XWiki is a great product with a lot of potential for our organization
>>>> (internal information exchange). I like it a lot, and I'm convinced
> that in
>>>> the long run it's better for us than any of the other options.
I'm
> primarily
>>>> a .NET developer familiar with Java, Python, SQL, etc. I've set up
> the the
>>>> whole shebang from scratch using SQL Server, Tomcat, and all the
rest.
> I've
>>>> created a new space, added some lengthy content with images, and
> restricted
>>>> views of unregistered guests.
>>>>
>>>> Yet I'm still dismayed at how hard it is to get the most basic
> information
>>>> on editing the very first page we all see. The page itself says
it's
> easy!
>>>> Just try editing in WYSIWYG - it quits. Try editing in Wiki mode -
>>>> unintelligible. The documentation simply says "just edit it"
(I'm
>>>> paraphrasing), but that doesn't work, the macro doesn't make
sense
yet.
>>>>
>>>> I've spent many hours trying to understand what's going on with
the
>>>> dashboard tool (e.g., $msg.get), spent hours rummaging in the
database
>>>> schema looking for "Welcome
to your wiki" so I can change it to
> "Welcome to
>>>> MY Freaking Wiki!" (just kidding on that last part).
>>>>
>>>> I understand (now) that I can set up a new page and maybe in an hour
> or so
>>>> figure out how to get the home page redirected there, but that is a
> lot of
>>>> work for simply wanting to change the introductory text in the main
> page to
>>>> say something meaningful to my co-workers to get them interested.
> Then I
>>>> can go on the learn the programming part later.
>>>>
>>>> The point is that for folks like me there is a critical gap between
> getting
>>>> things running and taking the first meaningful step towards
> controlling the
>>>> application. If I am also not a programmer, then that gap is even
> larger.
>>>>
>>>> Questions:
>>>> - I'd like to see a tutorial-style breakdown of how the dashboard
> app/tool
>>>> thingy works. Having such a tutorial linked on the documentation
page
> would
>>>> be ideal, it would be a great learning tool and introduction to the
> more
>>>> interesting features of XWiki.
>>>>
>>>> - In that tutorial, I'd like to know how to find out where to find
> $msg.get
>>>> keys so I can change reuse them, find out how they are intended to be
> used,
>>>> maybe even change them. Lots of parameters used in that tool are
very
>>>> difficult to find. How to know
where to find even more? The API
docs
> don't
>>>> seem to cover this.
>>>>
>>>> Again, XWiki is a great product and I'm looking forward to using it
> even if
>>>> I don't figure out the dashboard :). If some kind soul wanted to
> detail
>>>> some explanations of the dashboard, and maybe create a HOWTO list of
>>>> beginner tips that would be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure.
> Maybe
>>>> such a thing exists and I just haven't found it yet?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> -Chris.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Need-some-Help-Explanations-tp7358161p737…
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14 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Chris Bennett -
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Guillaume Lerouge -
Jean-Vincent Drean -
Ken Jennings -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Vincent Massol