14 Mar
2007
14 Mar
'07
4:41 p.m.
Forum - Yes.
_____
From: Sergiu Dumitriu [mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:36 PM
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Hi,
We're currently using mailing lists and IRC (and person2person chats)
for answering user questions. But:
- IRC has no history (yet; when's that bot coming online?)
- mailing lists are not that easy to browse and search.
Should we make a forum for users?
Pro
- One place where users can find information, organized by topics
- Users are used to posting on forums, and we might get a larger
community
Con
- Soon it will get too crowded, and (some) developers won't have the
time to answer all the emails; we need a strong community, and advanced
users knowing the code, and for this we need documentation
As a developer, I'd stick to mailing lists.
As a user, I'd say forum.
What's your opinion?
--
http://purl.org/net/sergiu
14 Mar
14 Mar
4:45 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Actually, I'd be inclined to say the pro's far exceed the cons on a
forum...
________________________________
From: Martin Barrs [mailto:martin.barrs@visilent.com]
Sent: 14 March 2007 15:42
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: RE: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Forum - Yes.
________________________________
From: Sergiu Dumitriu [mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:36 PM
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Hi,
We're currently using mailing lists and IRC (and person2person chats)
for answering user questions. But:
- IRC has no history (yet; when's that bot coming online?)
- mailing lists are not that easy to browse and search.
Should we make a forum for users?
Pro
- One place where users can find information, organized by topics
- Users are used to posting on forums, and we might get a larger
community
Con
- Soon it will get too crowded, and (some) developers won't have the
time to answer all the emails; we need a strong community, and advanced
users knowing the code, and for this we need documentation
As a developer, I'd stick to mailing lists.
As a user, I'd say forum.
What's your opinion?
--
http://purl.org/net/sergiu
4:55 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
On Mar 14, 2007, at 4:45 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Actually, I'd be inclined to say the pro's far
exceed the cons on a
forum...
Actually, I'd be inclined to say that cons far exceed the pros on a
forum :-)
What this means is that you need to answer to the points I've raised
against a forum. You can't just say you'd like one. In my post I've
answered Sergiu's points and proposed an alternative solution. I'm
curious to know why you think the proposed solution is not good enough.
In the case we agree to have a forum, does this mean you're willing
to set it up, administer it and pay for the cost of the hardware? :)
Thanks
-Vincent
From: Martin Barrs [mailto:martin.barrs@visilent.com]
Sent: 14 March 2007 15:42
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: RE: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Forum - Yes.
From: Sergiu Dumitriu [mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:36 PM
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Hi,
We're currently using mailing lists and IRC (and person2person
chats) for answering user questions. But:
- IRC has no history (yet; when's that bot coming online?)
- mailing lists are not that easy to browse and search.
Should we make a forum for users?
Pro
- One place where users can find information, organized by topics
- Users are used to posting on forums, and we might get a larger
community
Con
- Soon it will get too crowded, and (some) developers won't have
the time to answer all the emails; we need a strong community, and
advanced users knowing the code, and for this we need documentation
As a developer, I'd stick to mailing lists.
As a user, I'd say forum.
What's your opinion?
--
http://purl.org/net/sergiu
--
You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-
users(a)objectweb.org mailing list.
To unsubscribe: mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org
For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help
ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page: http://www.objectweb.org/
wws
5:47 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Fair point indeed,
I'll agree first up that anything relevant on the maillists should go
onto the xwiki.org site - totally valid.
Being on sevreal different forums (from technical to consumer), and
different maillists, I think it's true that there is no one solution. A
really good user group tool is one that is workable via forum and email
(such as google groups), in this way answers come to you, but you can
also easily research problems (and answer older problems too). I've had
to dig a few times through the maillist and usually end up re-emailing
the list - as much as 90% of the time; purely as it's not an easily
searchable interface. Forums are designed to be easily searchable (the
ones I've used anyway, phpBB being the most flexible); and are also
designed with the "sticky/announcement" features built in - so
important/often-asked topics can be answered quickly, without
re-posting.
Know what would really rock? Creating a class and relevant documents to
mimic a forum within the xwiki.org site; linked into the email lists (so
that "topics" or master documents are automatically created). XWiki
already has a tagging interface (haven't used it much yet though
myself), and it would be quite a nice improvement over the older - dated
- FAQ class example.
Perhaps what would help is to setup the proposed system for review; and
we can see how that works.
To be perfectly honest, if folks are really behind a forum, as to the
cost of setting up forums/etc.. there are a lot of free hosting
solutions that offer phpBB, and variants of it (including phpBB
themselves); so the cost of it is not too prohibitive, especially if
it's run by users.
And yeah, if folks are happy to buy into the idea; I'll set it up and
help anyone else interested in assisting with maintaining it (ensuring
xwiki devs have logon details to the admin account naturally, just in
case).
________________________________
From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vincent@massol.net]
Sent: 14 March 2007 15:55
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
On Mar 14, 2007, at 4:45 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Actually, I'd be inclined to say the pro's far exceed the cons
on a forum...
Actually, I'd be inclined to say that cons far exceed the pros on a
forum :-)
What this means is that you need to answer to the points I've raised
against a forum. You can't just say you'd like one. In my post I've
answered Sergiu's points and proposed an alternative solution. I'm
curious to know why you think the proposed solution is not good enough.
In the case we agree to have a forum, does this mean you're willing to
set it up, administer it and pay for the cost of the hardware? :)
Thanks
-Vincent
________________________________
From: Martin Barrs [mailto:martin.barrs@visilent.com]
Sent: 14 March 2007 15:42
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: RE: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Forum - Yes.
________________________________
From: Sergiu Dumitriu [mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:36 PM
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Hi,
We're currently using mailing lists and IRC (and person2person
chats) for answering user questions. But:
- IRC has no history (yet; when's that bot coming online?)
- mailing lists are not that easy to browse and search.
Should we make a forum for users?
Pro
- One place where users can find information, organized by
topics
- Users are used to posting on forums, and we might get a larger
community
Con
- Soon it will get too crowded, and (some) developers won't have
the time to answer all the emails; we need a strong community, and
advanced users knowing the code, and for this we need documentation
As a developer, I'd stick to mailing lists.
As a user, I'd say forum.
What's your opinion?
--
http://purl.org/net/sergiu
--
You receive this message as a subscriber of the
xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org mailing list.
To unsubscribe: mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org
For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help
ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page:
http://www.objectweb.org/wws
6:04 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:47 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Fair point indeed,
I'll agree first up that anything relevant on the maillists should
go onto the xwiki.org site - totally valid.
Being on sevreal different forums (from technical to consumer), and
different maillists, I think it's true that there is no one
solution. A really good user group tool is one that is workable
via forum and email (such as google groups), in this way answers
come to you, but you can also easily research problems (and answer
older problems too). I've had to dig a few times through the
maillist and usually end up re-emailing the list - as much as 90%
of the time; purely as it's not an easily searchable interface.
Forums are designed to be easily searchable (the ones I've used
anyway, phpBB being the most flexible); and are also designed with
the "sticky/announcement" features built in - so important/often-
asked topics can be answered quickly, without re-posting.
I haven't used Nabble myself (except for searching) but users of it
tell me they get this. Might be good to try it out and see if it fits
the bill (I don't think it has to do 100% what forum tools like phpBB
do to be good enough for us).
Know what would really rock? Creating a class and
relevant
documents to mimic a forum within the xwiki.org site; linked into
the email lists (so that "topics" or master documents are
automatically created). XWiki already has a tagging interface
(haven't used it much yet though myself), and it would be quite a
nice improvement over the older - dated - FAQ class example.
I knew this was coming... :) BTW did you see my answer to Catalin
about the Collaborative RSS Watch tool?
Perhaps what would help is to setup the proposed system for review;
and we can see how that works.
To be perfectly honest, if folks are really behind a forum, as to
the cost of setting up forums/etc.. there are a lot of free hosting
solutions that offer phpBB, and variants of it (including phpBB
themselves); so the cost of it is not too prohibitive, especially
if it's run by users.
For any of these solutions we would need to keep our mailing lists so
the system would have to be usable either from the forum or from the
mailing list. But I guess they all do this. I'd hate to loose the list.
And yeah, if folks are happy to buy into the idea;
I'll set it up
and help anyone else interested in assisting with maintaining it
(ensuring xwiki devs have logon details to the admin account
naturally, just in case).
Cool! :)
I'd still like to know why Mailing List + Nabble (as we have it
today) doesn't fit the bill.
Thanks
-Vincent
From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vincent@massol.net]
Sent: 14 March 2007 15:55
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
On Mar 14, 2007, at 4:45 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Actually, I'd be inclined to say the
pro's far exceed the cons on
a forum...
Actually, I'd be inclined to say that cons far exceed the pros on a
forum :-)
What this means is that you need to answer to the points I've
raised against a forum. You can't just say you'd like one. In my
post I've answered Sergiu's points and proposed an alternative
solution. I'm curious to know why you think the proposed solution
is not good enough.
In the case we agree to have a forum, does this mean you're willing
to set it up, administer it and pay for the cost of the hardware? :)
Thanks
-Vincent
From: Martin Barrs
[mailto:martin.barrs@visilent.com]
Sent: 14 March 2007 15:42
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: RE: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Forum - Yes.
From: Sergiu Dumitriu [mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:36 PM
To: xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
Subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Hi,
We're currently using mailing lists and IRC (and person2person
chats) for answering user questions. But:
- IRC has no history (yet; when's that bot coming online?)
- mailing lists are not that easy to browse and search.
Should we make a forum for users?
Pro
- One place where users can find information, organized by topics
- Users are used to posting on forums, and we might get a larger
community
Con
- Soon it will get too crowded, and (some) developers won't have
the time to answer all the emails; we need a strong community, and
advanced users knowing the code, and for this we need documentation
As a developer, I'd stick to mailing lists.
As a user, I'd say forum.
What's your opinion?
--
http://purl.org/net/sergiu
--
You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-
users(a)objectweb.org mailing list.
To unsubscribe: mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org
For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help
ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page: http://
www.objectweb.org/wws
--
You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-
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For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help
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wws 
15 Mar
15 Mar
5:13 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Given that it'd be difficult to justify completely abolishing the mailing
lists in favor of forums, we'd need to keep both, and having two information
sources to follow is just worse in my opinion. Thousands of other open
source projects that have way higher and broader activity than XWiki use
mailing lists as the only communication mechanism and they manage fine.
After initial shock, users generally learn to cope with high mailing list
volume... and/or change their mail client. My medicine for managing open
source mailing lists is gmail and nabble and I'm -1 for XWiki forums.
Kalle
On 3/14/07, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:47 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Fair point indeed,
I'll agree first up that anything relevant on the maillists should go onto
the xwiki.org site - totally valid.
Being on sevreal different forums (from technical to consumer), and
different maillists, I think it's true that there is no one solution. A
really good user group tool is one that is workable via forum and email
(such as google groups), in this way answers come to you, but you can also
easily research problems (and answer older problems too). I've had to dig a
few times through the maillist and usually end up re-emailing the list - as
much as 90% of the time; purely as it's not an easily searchable interface.
Forums are designed to be easily searchable (the ones I've used anyway,
phpBB being the most flexible); and are also designed with the
"sticky/announcement" features built in - so important/often-asked topics
can be answered quickly, without re-posting.
I haven't used Nabble myself (except for searching) but users of it tell
me they get this. Might be good to try it out and see if it fits the bill (I
don't think it has to do 100% what forum tools like phpBB do to be good
enough for us).
Know what would really rock? Creating a class and relevant documents to
mimic a forum within the xwiki.org site; linked into the email lists (so
that "topics" or master documents are automatically created). XWiki already
has a tagging interface (haven't used it much yet though myself), and it
would be quite a nice improvement over the older - dated - FAQ class
example.
I knew this was coming... :) BTW did you see my answer to Catalin about
the Collaborative RSS Watch tool?
Perhaps what would help is to setup the proposed system for review; and we
can see how that works.
To be perfectly honest, if folks are really behind a forum, as to the cost
of setting up forums/etc.. there are a lot of free hosting solutions that
offer phpBB, and variants of it (including phpBB themselves); so the cost of
it is not too prohibitive, especially if it's run by users.
For any of these solutions we would need to keep our mailing lists so the
system would have to be usable either from the forum or from the mailing
list. But I guess they all do this. I'd hate to loose the list.
And yeah, if folks are happy to buy into the idea; I'll set it up
and help anyone else interested in assisting with maintaining it (ensuring
xwiki devs have logon details to the admin account naturally, just in case).
Cool! :)
I'd still like to know why Mailing List + Nabble (as we have it today)
doesn't fit the bill.
Thanks
-Vincent
*From:* Vincent Massol [mailto:vincent@massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>]
*Sent:* 14 March 2007 15:55
*To:* xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
*Subject:* Re: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
On Mar 14, 2007, at 4:45 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote:
Actually, I'd be inclined to say the pro's far exceed the cons on a
forum...
Actually, I'd be inclined to say that cons far exceed the pros on a forum
:-)
What this means is that you need to answer to the points I've raised
against a forum. You can't just say you'd like one. In my post I've answered
Sergiu's points and proposed an alternative solution. I'm curious to know
why you think the proposed solution is not good enough.
In the case we agree to have a forum, does this mean you're willing to set
it up, administer it and pay for the cost of the hardware? :)
Thanks
-Vincent
------------------------------
*From:* Martin Barrs [mailto:martin.barrs@visilent.com<martin.barrs@visilent.com>]
*Sent:* 14 March 2007 15:42
*To:* xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
*Subject:* RE: [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Forum - Yes.
------------------------------
*From:* Sergiu Dumitriu
[mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com<sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com>]
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:36 PM
*To:* xwiki-users(a)objectweb.org
*Subject:* [xwiki-users] Do we need a forum?
Hi,
We're currently using mailing lists and IRC (and person2person chats) for
answering user questions. But:
- IRC has no history (yet; when's that bot coming online?)
- mailing lists are not that easy to browse and search.
Should we make a forum for users?
Pro
- One place where users can find information, organized by topics
- Users are used to posting on forums, and we might get a larger community
Con
- Soon it will get too crowded, and (some) developers won't have the time
to answer all the emails; we need a strong community, and advanced users
knowing the code, and for this we need documentation
As a developer, I'd stick to mailing lists.
As a user, I'd say forum.
What's your opinion?
--
http://purl.org/net/sergiu
--
You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-users(a)objectweb.orgmailing list.
To unsubscribe:
mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org<xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org>
For general help:
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6619
days inactive
6620
days old
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Esbach, Brandon -
Kalle Korhonen -
Martin Barrs -
Vincent Massol