15 Mar
2017
15 Mar
'17
9:40 p.m.
Hi all,
I'm still trying to move a private Wiki from Confluence to Xwiki, now 9.1.2.
I just cannot find my way to the access rights system.
What I need:
A page tree like this:
A
A.1
A.1.1
A.1.2
A.2
A.2.1
B
B.1
B.1.1
B.1.2
B.2
B.2.1
C
C.1
...
And the following mechanics:
No anonymous access, only logged in users.
Users belong in group A, B or C - possibly more than one of them.
Users of Group A should see the top page A and subpages in the navigation panel.
Users of Group B should see the top page B ...
Users of more than one group should see all corresponding pages.
Beneath the top pages all users should have full create/edit/comment/delete rights.
Simply speaking: I'm trying to achieve what can easily be done with Confluence
spaces,
now that Xwiki removed them for some reason.
Users working on project X should see only pages (and navigation tree) of project X,
while the board of directors should be able to see and work on all projects.
Subwikis won't do because of the "multiple group memberships/board of
directors"
requirement, if I read that part of the documentation correctly. So I need nested pages.
Any hints on how to configure this would be greatly appreciated!
Second, I want all applications, blog, sandbox, ... gone from what users see. When I
try to delete these pages I get the warning that I should instead remove the extension
...
Users should see a hierarchical navigation panel on the left and the page on the right
and rest of the area in the browser. Simple and clean. Nothing (!) else.
Possible?
Many many thanks in advance! I don't want to complain about free software and of
course
I could "just buy Confluence" instead. Unfortunately a regular license is way
out of budget
for our small organisation and we have outgrown the 10 users you get for the "almost
free"
starter license from Atlassian. When I first found Xwiki I was so excited it would
support
spaces, only to learn that they were removed again ...
Thanks in advance!
Patrick
16 Mar
16 Mar
6:49 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] Access rights driving me mad ... help needed
Hi Patrick,
as long as the access rights management hasn't changed too much since
8.4.3, this should be relatively easy.
First, remember this: once a permission is set, it is denied to everyone
else, so even if you set one page to be invisible to unregistered users,
that page will also be invisible to all other users, unless you
explicitly state that others may see it.
The group problem should be simple:
Unless the top page is the "Main" page, go to the page, go
Settings -> Administer Page -> Rights: Page & Children
There you can explicitly set group access rights.
If your top page is "Main" or another page containing technical
subpages, only set the Viewing permissions to the Page, NOT its children.
No anonymous access can be set on
Administer Wiki -> Users & Groups -> Rights
in a checkbox labeled "Prevent unregistered users from viewing pages..."
To remove the Sandbox, simply set the top pages viewing permissions to
"denied" on unregistered users, that should remove it from the view of
all others as well.
For the rest, check
Administer Wiki -> Extension Manager -> Installed Extensions
for the etension you want to remove, and remove it with "uninstall".
Word of warning, though, this CAN break your layout, as some extensions
seem to have a greater effect on the default pages than expected.
Good Luck ;)
7:14 a.m.
Hello,
Am 16.03.2017 um 06:49 schrieb Stefan Helmerichs
<sh(a)form-solutions.de>de>:
First, remember this: once a permission is set, it is denied to everyone
else, so even if you set one page to be invisible to unregistered users,
that page will also be invisible to all other users, unless you
explicitly state that others may see it.
OK, understood.
The group problem should be simple:
Unless the top page is the "Main" page, go to the page, go
Settings -> Administer Page -> Rights: Page & Children
There you can explicitly set group access rights.
If your top page is "Main" or another page containing technical
subpages, only set the Viewing permissions to the Page, NOT its children.
Aaaaah ... that was my mistake. I already figured out most of what you
outlined but once I revoked rights for "Main plus children", the Wiki
"stopped working" for the users.
So I will empty the database, initialise everything again and hopefully
get it right this time.
Word of warning, though, this CAN break your layout,
as some extensions
seem to have a greater effect on the default pages than expected.
Yeah, some parts look a bit like a ball of wool ;-)
Thanks, Stefan. Could anyone explain the reasons why spaces were
removed? I mean, what better way to keep seperate projects neatly
separated while having them all indexed and searchable in the same
wiki?
Kind regards,
Patrick
8:17 a.m.
Hi Patrick,
[snip]
Thanks, Stefan. Could anyone explain the reasons why
spaces were
removed? I mean, what better way to keep seperate projects neatly
separated while having them all indexed and searchable in the same
wiki?
Just replying to this part, there are some info at
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization/ and especially in
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization/Neste…
which is linked from the first URL.
In short:
* Spaces are still there in the model (and you can see it surface in the APIs you use in
scripts in wiki pages)
* However in the UI (i.e. for end users) we’re trying to only expose the concept of Pages
and we’re implementing Nested Pages with Nested Spaces
Thanks
-Vincent
Kind regards,
Patrick
8:28 a.m.
Hi Patrick,
[snip]
Many many thanks in advance! I don't want to
complain about free software and of course
I could "just buy Confluence" instead.
Open source software doesn’t mean everything has to be free. If you need professional
support and help you can get it from several companies sponsoring the development of
XWiki: https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Supporters/SponsoringCompanies/
That actually helps the development of XWiki.
Unfortunately a regular license is way out of budget
for our small organisation and we have outgrown the 10 users you get for the "almost
free"
starter license from Atlassian.
You could also look at the cloud offer from XWiki SAS which is cheaper than Confluence
AFAIK:
http://www.xwiki.com/en/products/pricing
When I first found Xwiki I was so excited it would
support
spaces, only to learn that they were removed again …
No it wasn’t removed. It’s actually the complete opposite: it’s been improved. You now
have the ability to create unlimited depth of hierarchies and with the ability to set
cascading permissions at all levels.
It’s just that we’re now calling this feature Nested Pages and no longer spaces (previous
spaces were only 1 level deep BTW).
And you still have the additional possibility of creating sub-wikis.
Where did you find this info? I’d like to correct it if you found it in the
documentation.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks in advance!
Patrick
9:17 a.m.
On 15 Mar 2017, at 21:40, Patrick M. Hausen
<pmh(a)hausen.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm still trying to move a private Wiki from Confluence to Xwiki, now 9.1.2.
I just cannot find my way to the access rights system.
What I need:
A page tree like this:
A
A.1
A.1.1
A.1.2
A.2
A.2.1
B
B.1
B.1.1
B.1.2
B.2
B.2.1
C
C.1
...
And the following mechanics:
No anonymous access, only logged in users.
Users belong in group A, B or C - possibly more than one of them.
Users of Group A should see the top page A and subpages in the navigation panel.
Users of Group B should see the top page B ...
Users of more than one group should see all corresponding pages.
Beneath the top pages all users should have full create/edit/comment/delete rights.
Simply speaking: I'm trying to achieve what can easily be done with Confluence
spaces,
now that Xwiki removed them for some reason.
They’re still there, see
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization/
Users working on project X should see only pages (and
navigation tree) of project X,
while the board of directors should be able to see and work on all projects.
That’s possible.
Subwikis won't do because of the "multiple
group memberships/board of directors"
requirement, if I read that part of the documentation correctly.
I don’t understand what you mean by "multiple group memberships/board of directors”
and why it’s an issue with multi-wiki. You can have as many groups you want on the main
wiki for example and then set permissions on each sub-wiki. You don’t need to create local
users if that’s your worry.
See http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/WikiVsNestedPages (which is linked
from http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization/) if you need
to know the detailed differences between nested pages and multi-wikis.
So I need nested pages.
Any hints on how to configure this would be greatly appreciated!
Yes, there’s nothing to configure, you just click the + button to add a page under the
current one (or specify any location in the Add page dialog that opens).
Second, I want all applications, blog, sandbox, ...
gone from what users see.
You still want these apps in the wiki but only visible to some users or completely gone
and removed?
When I
try to delete these pages I get the warning that I should instead remove the extension …
Yes that’s good. What’s the problem you faced? We recently introduced a protection to
avoid users deleting application pages by mistake, see
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/Data/XWiki/9.1/
Note that we currently have a limitation that we need to fix ASAP:
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-8608
Thus in the meantime you can disregard the warning and delete the pages of those apps you
don’t need instead of uninstalling them.
Users should see a hierarchical navigation panel on
the left and the page on the right
and rest of the area in the browser. Simple and clean. Nothing (!) else.
Possible?
Sure.
Thanks
-Vincent
Many many thanks in advance! I don't want to
complain about free software and of course
I could "just buy Confluence" instead. Unfortunately a regular license is way
out of budget
for our small organisation and we have outgrown the 10 users you get for the "almost
free"
starter license from Atlassian. When I first found Xwiki I was so excited it would
support
spaces, only to learn that they were removed again ...
Thanks in advance!
Patrick
9:51 a.m.
Hi Vincent,
Am 16.03.2017 um 08:28 schrieb Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
No it wasn’t removed. It’s actually the complete opposite: it’s been improved. You now
have the ability to create unlimited depth of hierarchies and with the ability to set
cascading permissions at all levels.
It’s just that we’re now calling this feature Nested Pages and no longer spaces (previous
spaces were only 1 level deep BTW).
And you still have the additional possibility of creating sub-wikis.
Where did you find this info? I’d like to correct it if you found it in the
documentation.
I got it from you on this list IIRC ;-)
I understand the technical similarity of concepts. Yet, from a UI
perspective I would prefer to have the topmost hierachy level
called "spaces" or "projects" or "what-have-you" and a
separate
"spaces" menue to create, select, delete these.
Obviously the navigation panel on the left should show only the
page tree contained in that "space" as long as I'm "in that
space".
I don’t understand what you mean by "multiple
group memberships/board of directors” and why it’s an issue with multi-wiki.
I read that Wiki vs Nested Pages docs - multiple times ;-)
It's the "Ability to easily query data across instances" that multi-wikis
are missing.
I'm repeating myself, sorry - coming from Confluence we have
just one big wiki but with multiple project related containers
Confluence calls "spaces". But you can still search across all
of them you have access to, link from one to another, include
content snippets from one space in a page in another space and more.
I just want to emulate that as closely as possible because that's how
we are used to work.
Using the topmost level of the nested pages hierarchy for spaces
e.g. creates an odd looking navigation panel with just one entry
at the top level for users that are only in one project/group.
It would be more convenient to select the space/project as a separate
operation and have all the second level pages at the top of the navigation
panel.
Thanks for your help - as Stefan pointed out my main mistake probably
was to restrict access to "Main plus children". I can live with the different
UI, if there is really no way to get that "spaces" menue back that you had
in 7.x (?).
Side note: another "concept" thing that I think Confluence gets right and
a lot of others don't - not quite sure about Xwiki, yet - in Confluence
every page has a parent. Except for the space home that is the top
of the hierarchy, of course. In Mediawiki et. al. you can just create a
page named "bazong" in the middle of nowhere and nobody will ever
see it unless they use the search or the list of all pages.
I personally consider it mandatory that *all* content has a *defined place*
in a hierarchy of pages that is accessable through a menue that folds
out and in. But others may think different.
Kind regards
Patrick
10:14 a.m.
On 16 Mar 2017, at 09:51, Patrick M. Hausen
<pmh(a)hausen.com> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
Ok then you must have extracted it without the context. So the doc is correct probably.
Am 16.03.2017 um 08:28 schrieb Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
No it wasn’t removed. It’s actually the complete opposite: it’s been improved. You now
have the ability to create unlimited depth of hierarchies and with the ability to set
cascading permissions at all levels.
It’s just that we’re now calling this feature Nested Pages and no longer spaces (previous
spaces were only 1 level deep BTW).
And you still have the additional possibility of creating sub-wikis.
Where did you find this info? I’d like to correct it if you found it in the
documentation.
I got it from you on this list IIRC ;-) I understand the technical similarity of concepts.
Yet, from a UI
perspective I would prefer to have the topmost hierachy level
called "spaces" or "projects" or "what-have-you" and a
separate
"spaces" menue to create, select, delete these.
Having one concept is much simper than having two. However I can understand that coming
from windows and file systems you’re more used to folder and files. XWiki has chosen to
have only folders (or only files depending on how you view it). The reason is that in
xwiki a “folder” can have content so it’s not different from a “file”.
Obviously the navigation panel on the left should show
only the
page tree contained in that "space" as long as I'm "in that space”.
I disagree here. This is far from obvious and the reason we’re displaying by default all
pages is because there’s a need for a visible global navigation panel.
Now nothing prevents you from editing this panel and changing this behavior by adjusting
the macro parameters. See
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Document%20Tree%20Macr…
I don’t understand what you mean by
"multiple group memberships/board of directors” and why it’s an issue with
multi-wiki.
I read that Wiki vs Nested Pages docs - multiple times ;-) It's the "Ability to easily query data across
instances" that multi-wikis are missing.
Depends. You can use the SOLR search for that to a large extent. I don’t see what this has
to do with "multiple group memberships/board of directors” , could you explain?
I'm repeating myself, sorry - coming from
Confluence we have
just one big wiki but with multiple project related containers
Confluence calls "spaces". But you can still search across all
of them you have access to, link from one to another, include
content snippets from one space in a page in another space and more.
I’m repeating myself and yes that’s the default of xwiki too. There’s nothing to do to
have this, it’s builtin! And again it’s documented and I’ve also explained how to do that
in my previous reply.
So once more you just create your page hierarchy using the “+” button.
I just want to emulate that as closely as possible
because that's how
we are used to work.
You don’t need to emulate. That’s how xwiki works too.
Using the topmost level of the nested pages hierarchy
for spaces
e.g. creates an odd looking navigation panel with just one entry
at the top level for users that are only in one project/group.
You have 2 options:
- option 1: modify the navigation panel to set the root to be the current page
- option 2: create another nav panel to keep the global one at the root and set that other
nav Panel in subpage roots for your various projects/groups.
It would be more convenient to select the
space/project as a separate
operation and have all the second level pages at the top of the navigation
panel.
Thanks for your help - as Stefan pointed out my main mistake probably
was to restrict access to "Main plus children". I can live with the different
UI, if there is really no way to get that "spaces" menue back that you had
in 7.x (?).
Nothing has been lost. In 7.4.x the home page had a dashboard gadget called “Pages”
listing all pages of the wiki in a tree. Exactly the same as we have now in the Navigation
Panel on the left (we just moved it there so that it’s available by default from all pages
for easier navigation).
So I’m not sure what you are referring to.
Side note: another "concept" thing that I
think Confluence gets right and
a lot of others don't - not quite sure about Xwiki, yet - in Confluence
every page has a parent. Except for the space home that is the top
of the hierarchy, of course.
Same in xwiki.
In Mediawiki et. al. you can just create a
page named "bazong" in the middle of nowhere and nobody will ever
see it unless they use the search or the list of all pages.
I personally consider it mandatory that *all* content has a *defined place*
in a hierarchy of pages that is accessable through a menue that folds
out and in. But others may think different.
Ok then you should like xwiki :)
Thanks
-Vincent
Kind regards
Patrick
10:44 a.m.
Hi!
Am 16.03.2017 um 10:14 schrieb Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
Ok then I don’t understand how you could have inferred that we lost the ability to have
nested content.
Could you explain what we need to improve in this doc that would have helped you not be
confused?
I didn't. I just got the impression that once you had a separate "spaces"
menue including
a "create space" option and now it's gone. It's more of a user interface
question. I'm
missing that separate namespace.
It's the "Ability to easily query data across
instances" that multi-wikis are missing.
Depends. You can use the SOLR search for that to a large extent. I don’t see what this
has to do with "multiple group memberships/board of directors” , could you explain?
In Confluence a search query searches all spaces I have access to.
Not so woth Subwikis unless you implement Solr. - Correct?
So once more you just create your page hierarchy using
the “+” button.
Great. And if a parent page is mandatory, that's even better.
You have 2 options:
- option 1: modify the navigation panel to set the root to be the current page
- option 2: create another nav panel to keep the global one at the root and set that
other nav Panel in subpage roots for your various projects/groups.
I'll probably start with getting the access rights for the top level
correct try to learn about modifying panels in the next couple of days.
Nothing has been lost. In 7.4.x the home page had a
dashboard gadget called “Pages” listing all pages of the wiki in a tree. Exactly the same
as we have now in the Navigation Panel on the left (we just moved it there so that it’s
available by default from all pages for easier navigation).
I'm not claiming anything about nested pages was lost.
I started with Xwiki with version 8.something and Google referred
me to this document when I was searching for wikis that had spaces:
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/Spaces
It really is that simple: I (it's just me, Xwiki is fine, really) want the first
level
of the page hierarchy to be called something different than "page" and
a separate way of creating these entities only available to administrators
and the navigation panel to only show pages below the currently active
"space". Just like Confluence does. If that is not possible with Xwiki I'll
have to find a different way of organising things if I want to replace
Confluence with free software. And all in all Xwiki really looks like the
strongest contender here.
Only remark: I really wonder why that "Spaces" documentation I linked
above is still there. I was searching for hours for that "Add -> Space"
menu.
And I would still prefer to have it ;-)
Thanks again
Patrick
10:56 a.m.
On 16 Mar 2017, at 10:44, Patrick M. Hausen
<pmh(a)hausen.com> wrote:
Hi!
Confluence doesn’t support multi wiki… so you can’t compare at all.
Actually even worse, confluence doesn’t support nested spaces, see
https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CONF-1095
If you’re talking about search only, then whether you’re in a single wiki or multi wiki
you can have the search look everywhere. Try it on xwiki.org and you’ll see you’ll get
results for sub wikis too.
Am 16.03.2017 um 10:14 schrieb Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
Ok then I don’t understand how you could have inferred that we lost the ability to have
nested content.
Could you explain what we need to improve in this doc that would have helped you not be
confused?
I didn't. I just got the impression that once you had a separate "spaces"
menue including
a "create space" option and now it's gone. It's more of a user
interface question. I'm
missing that separate namespace.
It's the "Ability to easily query data
across instances" that multi-wikis are missing.
Depends. You can use the SOLR search for that to a large extent. I don’t see what this
has to do with "multiple group memberships/board of directors” , could you explain?
In Confluence a search query searches all spaces I have access to.
Not so woth Subwikis unless you implement Solr. - Correct? So once more you just create your page hierarchy using
the “+” button.
Great. And if a parent page is mandatory, that's even better.
Ok that was a leftover page. This page was no longer referenced from the navigation. I’ve
now removed it to avoid confusion.
Thanks
-Vincent
You have 2 options:
- option 1: modify the navigation panel to set the root to be the current page
- option 2: create another nav panel to keep the global one at the root and set that
other nav Panel in subpage roots for your various projects/groups.
I'll probably start with getting the access rights for the top level
correct try to learn about modifying panels in the next couple of days.
Nothing has been lost. In 7.4.x the home page had
a dashboard gadget called “Pages” listing all pages of the wiki in a tree. Exactly the
same as we have now in the Navigation Panel on the left (we just moved it there so that
it’s available by default from all pages for easier navigation).
I'm not claiming anything about nested pages was lost.
I started with Xwiki with version 8.something and Google referred
me to this document when I was searching for wikis that had spaces:
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/Spaces It really is that simple: I (it's just me, Xwiki
is fine, really) want the first level
of the page hierarchy to be called something different than "page" and
a separate way of creating these entities only available to administrators
and the navigation panel to only show pages below the currently active
"space". Just like Confluence does. If that is not possible with Xwiki
I'll
have to find a different way of organising things if I want to replace
Confluence with free software. And all in all Xwiki really looks like the
strongest contender here.
Only remark: I really wonder why that "Spaces" documentation I linked
above is still there. I was searching for hours for that "Add -> Space"
menu.
And I would still prefer to have it ;-)
Thanks again
Patrick
2794
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9 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Patrick M. Hausen -
Stefan Helmerichs -
Vincent Massol