Hi! Piotr Dziubecki wrote: > Hello :) > > I configured my XWiki instance in the following way: > > > > #-# This parameter will activate the sectional editing. > xwiki.section.edit=1 > > #-# This parameter controls the depth of sections that have section editing. > #-# By default level 1 and level 2 sections have section editing. > xwiki.section.depth=6 > > > I have many users working on documents simultaneously and in order to minimize document locking and possible > merging I encourage them to edit sections/paragraphs instead. I noticed that when, for instance, two users > edit different sections within the same page, the latter gets the message: > > This object is currently locked by user1 > > I checked and it's possible to force editing and save both of concurrent changes to that document, but the > message itself is a bit confusing to the users. I'm asking if it's possible to change xwiki configuration to > not display that message when the users edit different paragraphs within the same page ? > > To the best of my understanding locking is set a document level. So, if any user edits a section, all other users will receive that message. I think what you are doing is a bit risky. I've had here some problems following the same problem. When an user received this message, although she/he is editing only a section, there is no way of knowing if they are in the same section or in a different one. Even more, if you edit a document using the same user at two different locations, you won't receive the locking message.

Piotr Dziubecki wrote: > Hi :) > > > W dniu 10-11-04 11:08, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: > > > >> Hi! >> >> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hello :) >>> >>> I configured my XWiki instance in the following way: >>> >>> >>> >>> #-# This parameter will activate the sectional editing. >>> xwiki.section.edit=1 >>> >>> #-# This parameter controls the depth of sections that have section editing. >>> #-# By default level 1 and level 2 sections have section editing. >>> xwiki.section.depth=6 >>> >>> >>> I have many users working on documents simultaneously and in order to minimize document locking and possible >>> merging I encourage them to edit sections/paragraphs instead. I noticed that when, for instance, two users >>> edit different sections within the same page, the latter gets the message: >>> >>> This object is currently locked by user1 >>> >>> I checked and it's possible to force editing and save both of concurrent changes to that document, but the >>> message itself is a bit confusing to the users. I'm asking if it's possible to change xwiki configuration to >>> not display that message when the users edit different paragraphs within the same page ? >>> >>> >>> >> To the best of my understanding locking is set a document level. So, if >> any user edits a section, all other users will receive that message. >> >> I think what you are doing is a bit risky. I've had here some problems >> following the same problem. When an user received this message, although >> she/he is editing only a section, there is no way of knowing if they are >> in the same section or in a different one. Even more, if you edit a >> document using the same user at two different locations, you won't >> receive the locking message. >> >> >> > Yes, I came from the Media Wiki and section editing is pretty popular way of collaborative editing ( > avoiding the whole page locks ). > > I also arrives to XWiki from MediaWiki years ago. So, with the current MediaWiki release, is it possible to do section edition and get a warning only if two users edit the same section? Thanks!

Piotr Dziubecki wrote: > W dniu 10-11-04 12:13, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: > > >> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >> >> >>> Hi :) >>> >>> >>> W dniu 10-11-04 11:08, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello :) >>>>> >>>>> I configured my XWiki instance in the following way: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> #-# This parameter will activate the sectional editing. >>>>> xwiki.section.edit=1 >>>>> >>>>> #-# This parameter controls the depth of sections that have section editing. >>>>> #-# By default level 1 and level 2 sections have section editing. >>>>> xwiki.section.depth=6 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have many users working on documents simultaneously and in order to minimize document locking and possible >>>>> merging I encourage them to edit sections/paragraphs instead. I noticed that when, for instance, two users >>>>> edit different sections within the same page, the latter gets the message: >>>>> >>>>> This object is currently locked by user1 >>>>> >>>>> I checked and it's possible to force editing and save both of concurrent changes to that document, but the >>>>> message itself is a bit confusing to the users. I'm asking if it's possible to change xwiki configuration to >>>>> not display that message when the users edit different paragraphs within the same page ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> To the best of my understanding locking is set a document level. So, if >>>> any user edits a section, all other users will receive that message. >>>> >>>> I think what you are doing is a bit risky. I've had here some problems >>>> following the same problem. When an user received this message, although >>>> she/he is editing only a section, there is no way of knowing if they are >>>> in the same section or in a different one. Even more, if you edit a >>>> document using the same user at two different locations, you won't >>>> receive the locking message. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Yes, I came from the Media Wiki and section editing is pretty popular way of collaborative editing ( >>> avoiding the whole page locks ). >>> >>> >> I also arrives to XWiki from MediaWiki years ago. So, with the current >> MediaWiki release, is it possible to do section edition and get a >> warning only if two users edit the same section? >> >> Thanks! >> >> > To be sure, I did some tests here: > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sandbox > > no warnings, you can even edit the same section but then you'll need to get through the merge phase. In that > case you see such a message: > > Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. The upper text area contains the page text > as it currently exists. Your changes are shown in the lower text area. You will have to merge your changes > into the existing text. > > > > Well, I don't see this blocking behaviour working with MediaWiki sandbox... I don't know why! In any case, MediaWiki is not the case here! Just summing up:

1. Simultaneous edition is possible, but not advisable with the current XWiki release.

2. Locking is done at document level.

3. A true real-time edition editor for XWiki is on its way and will solve all these issues!

It will be great if some developer or more skilled user could review this statements to confirm/deny/complete them! Thanks!

Piotr Dziubecki wrote: > W dniu 10-11-04 21:28, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: > >> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >> >>> W dniu 10-11-04 12:13, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> W dniu 10-11-04 11:08, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi! >>>>>> >>>>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I configured my XWiki instance in the following way: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #-# This parameter will activate the sectional editing. >>>>>>> xwiki.section.edit=1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #-# This parameter controls the depth of sections that have section editing. >>>>>>> #-# By default level 1 and level 2 sections have section editing. >>>>>>> xwiki.section.depth=6 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have many users working on documents simultaneously and in order to minimize document locking and possible >>>>>>> merging I encourage them to edit sections/paragraphs instead. I noticed that when, for instance, two users >>>>>>> edit different sections within the same page, the latter gets the message: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This object is currently locked by user1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I checked and it's possible to force editing and save both of concurrent changes to that document, but the >>>>>>> message itself is a bit confusing to the users. I'm asking if it's possible to change xwiki configuration to >>>>>>> not display that message when the users edit different paragraphs within the same page ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> To the best of my understanding locking is set a document level. So, if >>>>>> any user edits a section, all other users will receive that message. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think what you are doing is a bit risky. I've had here some problems >>>>>> following the same problem. When an user received this message, although >>>>>> she/he is editing only a section, there is no way of knowing if they are >>>>>> in the same section or in a different one. Even more, if you edit a >>>>>> document using the same user at two different locations, you won't >>>>>> receive the locking message. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Yes, I came from the Media Wiki and section editing is pretty popular way of collaborative editing ( >>>>> avoiding the whole page locks ). >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I also arrives to XWiki from MediaWiki years ago. So, with the current >>>> MediaWiki release, is it possible to do section edition and get a >>>> warning only if two users edit the same section? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> >>> To be sure, I did some tests here: >>> >>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sandbox >>> >>> no warnings, you can even edit the same section but then you'll need to get through the merge phase. In that >>> case you see such a message: >>> >>> Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. The upper text area contains the page text >>> as it currently exists. Your changes are shown in the lower text area. You will have to merge your changes >>> into the existing text. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Well, I don't see this blocking behaviour working with MediaWiki >> sandbox... I don't know why! In any case, MediaWiki is not the case here! >> >> Just summing up: >> > > Thanks for that summary, let me comment on your thoughts: > > > >> 1. Simultaneous edition is possible, but not advisable with the current >> XWiki release. >> > > Yes, especially that there is no merge phase after concurrent editing ( or maybe there is a 'merge plugin' - > I'd be grateful for any info on that ). In that case you end up with the article content overridden by > someone else and your only hope is to dig in the document's history and try to fix edits manually. > > >> 2. Locking is done at document level. >> > > Is that going to change in the future ? In my opinion that basically blocks user groups/communities from > working on the documents in a collaborative way. Is it much work to make that lock 'section sensitive', > architecture-wise ? If someone could describe what should be done / changed in order to achieve that, maybe > we could figure out a solution for that issue. > > > >> 3. A true real-time edition editor for XWiki is on its way and will >> solve all these issues! >> > > Well, it could be, but it's based on the js/ajax - it could be tricky to achieve a good level of > compatibility between browsers ( of course it could be done, Google docs is a good example here ). Of course > I'd take that right away in the stable form. But I think merging/lock on the section level could be more > than enough for the ordinary wiki users ( Wikipedia is basing on that model on a huge scale and it's doing > fine ;) ) > > >> It will be great if some developer or more skilled user could review >> this statements to confirm/deny/complete them! Thanks! >> > > I concur. Currently I'm struggling to figure out how to get over that problem. I can tell my users just to > ignore the lock message, but that is not super safe and could cause a content loss/corruption. > > Looking forward to your feedback guys ! > I do agree with you, Piotr. In fact, when I present XWiki to a new group of users, this is the question I would like to avoid: how XWiki manage concurrent edition? I talk about locking behaviour and a future real-time editor, but this is not a good answer at all. To use instant messaging to agree on a timetable to edit a document is what we currently do here. But it is a solution out of XWiki (even though it is not costly at all as we use instant messaging extensively in our research groups) and I don't like to propose this kind of workarounds as I'm trying to show how to use XWiki to collaborative writing among other uses. I'm a bit surprised of being discussing this issue here as we are already in a 2.7.z release of XWiki. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I am not able to find an answer either. Thanks for your thoughts!

W dniu 10-11-13 09:50, Ricardo Rodriguez [eBioTIC.] wrote: > > > Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >> W dniu 10-11-04 21:28, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >> >>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>> >>>> W dniu 10-11-04 12:13, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> W dniu 10-11-04 11:08, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I configured my XWiki instance in the following way: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> #-# This parameter will activate the sectional editing. >>>>>>>> xwiki.section.edit=1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> #-# This parameter controls the depth of sections that have section editing. >>>>>>>> #-# By default level 1 and level 2 sections have section editing. >>>>>>>> xwiki.section.depth=6 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have many users working on documents simultaneously and in order to minimize document locking and possible >>>>>>>> merging I encourage them to edit sections/paragraphs instead. I noticed that when, for instance, two users >>>>>>>> edit different sections within the same page, the latter gets the message: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This object is currently locked by user1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I checked and it's possible to force editing and save both of concurrent changes to that document, but the >>>>>>>> message itself is a bit confusing to the users. I'm asking if it's possible to change xwiki configuration to >>>>>>>> not display that message when the users edit different paragraphs within the same page ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> To the best of my understanding locking is set a document level. So, if >>>>>>> any user edits a section, all other users will receive that message. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think what you are doing is a bit risky. I've had here some problems >>>>>>> following the same problem. When an user received this message, although >>>>>>> she/he is editing only a section, there is no way of knowing if they are >>>>>>> in the same section or in a different one. Even more, if you edit a >>>>>>> document using the same user at two different locations, you won't >>>>>>> receive the locking message. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I came from the Media Wiki and section editing is pretty popular way of collaborative editing ( >>>>>> avoiding the whole page locks ). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I also arrives to XWiki from MediaWiki years ago. So, with the current >>>>> MediaWiki release, is it possible to do section edition and get a >>>>> warning only if two users edit the same section? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> >>>> To be sure, I did some tests here: >>>> >>>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sandbox >>>> >>>> no warnings, you can even edit the same section but then you'll need to get through the merge phase. In that >>>> case you see such a message: >>>> >>>> Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. The upper text area contains the page text >>>> as it currently exists. Your changes are shown in the lower text area. You will have to merge your changes >>>> into the existing text. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Well, I don't see this blocking behaviour working with MediaWiki >>> sandbox... I don't know why! In any case, MediaWiki is not the case here! >>> >>> Just summing up: >>> >> >> Thanks for that summary, let me comment on your thoughts: >> >> >> >>> 1. Simultaneous edition is possible, but not advisable with the current >>> XWiki release. >>> >> >> Yes, especially that there is no merge phase after concurrent editing ( or maybe there is a 'merge plugin' - >> I'd be grateful for any info on that ). In that case you end up with the article content overridden by >> someone else and your only hope is to dig in the document's history and try to fix edits manually. >> >> >>> 2. Locking is done at document level. >>> >> >> Is that going to change in the future ? In my opinion that basically blocks user groups/communities from >> working on the documents in a collaborative way. Is it much work to make that lock 'section sensitive', >> architecture-wise ? If someone could describe what should be done / changed in order to achieve that, maybe >> we could figure out a solution for that issue. >> >> >> >>> 3. A true real-time edition editor for XWiki is on its way and will >>> solve all these issues! >>> >> >> Well, it could be, but it's based on the js/ajax - it could be tricky to achieve a good level of >> compatibility between browsers ( of course it could be done, Google docs is a good example here ). Of course >> I'd take that right away in the stable form. But I think merging/lock on the section level could be more >> than enough for the ordinary wiki users ( Wikipedia is basing on that model on a huge scale and it's doing >> fine ;) ) >> >> >>> It will be great if some developer or more skilled user could review >>> this statements to confirm/deny/complete them! Thanks! >>> >> >> I concur. Currently I'm struggling to figure out how to get over that problem. I can tell my users just to >> ignore the lock message, but that is not super safe and could cause a content loss/corruption. >> >> Looking forward to your feedback guys ! >> > > I do agree with you, Piotr. In fact, when I present XWiki to a new group > of users, this is the question I would like to avoid: how XWiki manage > concurrent edition? > > I talk about locking behaviour and a future real-time editor, but this > is not a good answer at all. To use instant messaging to agree on a > timetable to edit a document is what we currently do here. But it is a > solution out of XWiki (even though it is not costly at all as we use > instant messaging extensively in our research groups) and I don't like > to propose this kind of workarounds as I'm trying to show how to use > XWiki to collaborative writing among other uses. > > I'm a bit surprised of being discussing this issue here as we are > already in a 2.7.z release of XWiki. Perhaps I'm missing something, but > I am not able to find an answer either. > > Thanks for your thoughts! Exactly the same feelings on my side, Ricardo are you a member of XWiki team ? I see you're pretty active over the xwiki users list, is it possible get some attention to that matter ? I am willing to help with that since it is crucial for me and my projects, I'd need some guidance from where to start ( feature request ? some analysis in the context of the whole system, implementation phase ).

W dniu 10-11-04 12:13, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: > Piotr Dziubecki wrote: > > >> Hi :) >> >> >> W dniu 10-11-04 11:08, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hello :) >>>> >>>> I configured my XWiki instance in the following way: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> #-# This parameter will activate the sectional editing. >>>> xwiki.section.edit=1 >>>> >>>> #-# This parameter controls the depth of sections that have section editing. >>>> #-# By default level 1 and level 2 sections have section editing. >>>> xwiki.section.depth=6 >>>> >>>> >>>> I have many users working on documents simultaneously and in order to minimize document locking and possible >>>> merging I encourage them to edit sections/paragraphs instead. I noticed that when, for instance, two users >>>> edit different sections within the same page, the latter gets the message: >>>> >>>> This object is currently locked by user1 >>>> >>>> I checked and it's possible to force editing and save both of concurrent changes to that document, but the >>>> message itself is a bit confusing to the users. I'm asking if it's possible to change xwiki configuration to >>>> not display that message when the users edit different paragraphs within the same page ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> To the best of my understanding locking is set a document level. So, if >>> any user edits a section, all other users will receive that message. >>> >>> I think what you are doing is a bit risky. I've had here some problems >>> following the same problem. When an user received this message, although >>> she/he is editing only a section, there is no way of knowing if they are >>> in the same section or in a different one. Even more, if you edit a >>> document using the same user at two different locations, you won't >>> receive the locking message. >>> >>> >>> >> Yes, I came from the Media Wiki and section editing is pretty popular way of collaborative editing ( >> avoiding the whole page locks ). >> >> > I also arrives to XWiki from MediaWiki years ago. So, with the current > MediaWiki release, is it possible to do section edition and get a > warning only if two users edit the same section? > > Thanks! > > To be sure, I did some tests here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sandbox no warnings, you can even edit the same section but then you'll need to get through the merge phase. In that case you see such a message: Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. The upper text area contains the page text as it currently exists. Your changes are shown in the lower text area. You will have to merge your changes into the existing text.

W dniu 10-11-04 21:28, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: > Piotr Dziubecki wrote: > >> W dniu 10-11-04 12:13, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >> >> >>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi :) >>>> >>>> >>>> W dniu 10-11-04 11:08, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi! >>>>> >>>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello :) >>>>>> >>>>>> I configured my XWiki instance in the following way: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> #-# This parameter will activate the sectional editing. >>>>>> xwiki.section.edit=1 >>>>>> >>>>>> #-# This parameter controls the depth of sections that have section editing. >>>>>> #-# By default level 1 and level 2 sections have section editing. >>>>>> xwiki.section.depth=6 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I have many users working on documents simultaneously and in order to minimize document locking and possible >>>>>> merging I encourage them to edit sections/paragraphs instead. I noticed that when, for instance, two users >>>>>> edit different sections within the same page, the latter gets the message: >>>>>> >>>>>> This object is currently locked by user1 >>>>>> >>>>>> I checked and it's possible to force editing and save both of concurrent changes to that document, but the >>>>>> message itself is a bit confusing to the users. I'm asking if it's possible to change xwiki configuration to >>>>>> not display that message when the users edit different paragraphs within the same page ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> To the best of my understanding locking is set a document level. So, if >>>>> any user edits a section, all other users will receive that message. >>>>> >>>>> I think what you are doing is a bit risky. I've had here some problems >>>>> following the same problem. When an user received this message, although >>>>> she/he is editing only a section, there is no way of knowing if they are >>>>> in the same section or in a different one. Even more, if you edit a >>>>> document using the same user at two different locations, you won't >>>>> receive the locking message. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Yes, I came from the Media Wiki and section editing is pretty popular way of collaborative editing ( >>>> avoiding the whole page locks ). >>>> >>>> >>> I also arrives to XWiki from MediaWiki years ago. So, with the current >>> MediaWiki release, is it possible to do section edition and get a >>> warning only if two users edit the same section? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> >> To be sure, I did some tests here: >> >> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sandbox >> >> no warnings, you can even edit the same section but then you'll need to get through the merge phase. In that >> case you see such a message: >> >> Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. The upper text area contains the page text >> as it currently exists. Your changes are shown in the lower text area. You will have to merge your changes >> into the existing text. >> >> >> >> > Well, I don't see this blocking behaviour working with MediaWiki > sandbox... I don't know why! In any case, MediaWiki is not the case here! > > Just summing up: > Thanks for that summary, let me comment on your thoughts: > 1. Simultaneous edition is possible, but not advisable with the current > XWiki release. > Yes, especially that there is no merge phase after concurrent editing ( or maybe there is a 'merge plugin' - I'd be grateful for any info on that ). In that case you end up with the article content overridden by someone else and your only hope is to dig in the document's history and try to fix edits manually. > 2. Locking is done at document level. > Is that going to change in the future ? In my opinion that basically blocks user groups/communities from working on the documents in a collaborative way. Is it much work to make that lock 'section sensitive', architecture-wise ?  If someone could describe what should be done / changed in order to achieve that, maybe we could figure out a solution for that issue. > 3. A true real-time edition editor for XWiki is on its way and will > solve all these issues! > Well, it could be, but it's based on the js/ajax - it could be tricky to achieve a good level of compatibility between browsers ( of course it could be done, Google docs is a good example here ). Of course I'd take that right away in the stable form. But I think merging/lock on the section level could be more than enough for the ordinary wiki users ( Wikipedia is basing on that model on a huge scale and it's doing fine ;) ) > It will be great if some developer or more skilled user could review > this statements to confirm/deny/complete them! Thanks! > I concur. Currently I'm struggling to figure out how to get over that problem. I can tell my users just to ignore the lock message, but that is not super safe and could cause a content loss/corruption. Looking forward to your feedback guys !

Regards, Piotr _______________________________________________ users mailing list users(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users