Hi all, Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site? Brandon Esbach Software Engineer Wireless Systems Segment Tyco Electronics 4 Eastgate Road Eastgate Little Island Co. Cork Ireland Tel: +353-21-4808305 Email: esbachb(a)tycoelectronics.com _______________________________________________ users mailing list users(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding documentation too?

> Hi, > > You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki Ecosystem" > panel. > > For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you click on > "XWiki Enterprise" that go to > http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you find a > "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE. > > 2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <Esbachb(a)tycoelectronics.com>om>: > >> >> Hi all, >> >> Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find any >> links for >> the documentation on the xwiki.org site? >>

Vincent Massol wrote: My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be located the first time I try to reach them, e.g.

http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all the UseGuide related links).

IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product oriented, instead of features oriented.

I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features to stay with the product or to move on to the next one. Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-(

BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve. -- Víctor A. Rodríguez (http://www.bit-man.com.ar) El bit Fantasma (Bit-Man) - Algorithm junkie Perl Mongers Capital Federal (http://cafe.pm.org/) GNU/Linux User Group - FCEyN - UBA (http://glugcen.dc.uba.ar/ _______________________________________________ users mailing list users(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once was.

Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, anyway).

Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each product's documentation?

-----Original Message----- From: users-bounces(a)xwiki.org [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote: yes but I would say that's normal. Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since before we were only documenting one product and now we're documenting the platform and all the products... You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move? Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http://enterprise.xwiki.org since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you should be able to find all you had before. Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with more than one product). Or any idea how to implement this? OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the way we do it on xwiki.org: - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org - http://hibernate.org - http://jboss.org - etc We could show all the platform features on the main page since all products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea since we would then not be able to present the different products (not enough space). I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this? Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ users mailing list users(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list users(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was when everything was fitting on one page ;) What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as possible*.

There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you mean something else?

Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote: +1 The structure of the web site changed, so that is still fine but it should not be too often. Or you should think about making redirections to the new urls. Users don't like to have to update their bookmarks too often.

+1 also. The new entry page beautiful but I think it lack informations. And the search need to work on all the sub-wikis, there is a problem at the moment.

_______________________________________________ users mailing list users(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Bjørnar Libæk wrote: > Vincent Massol wrote: > > (...) > >> I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it >> used to >> be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was >> when >> everything was fitting on one page ;) >> >> What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as >> possible*. >> > > I totally agree with Brandon. I actually gave up looking for the > documentation yesterday, thinking that it was probably not moved to > the > new site yet.

>BTW with some many of you having issues with the new site, there's probably something wrong with it (would be interesting to know how many newcomers have an issue with it compared to people who knew the old site).

On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Bjørnar Libæk wrote: > Vincent Massol wrote: > > (...) > >> I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used >> to be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was >> when everything was fitting on one page ;) >> >> What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as >> possible*. >> > > I totally agree with Brandon. I actually gave up looking for the > documentation yesterday, thinking that it was probably not moved to > the new site yet.

I'd like more details on this. What product were you looking documentation for when you gave up?

So far all I'm hearing is that you guys seem to consider XWiki as a single product and not a platform. This is probably the hardest to understand for you if you were coming from the old XWiki.org since this aspect wasn't shown at all.

On Dec 19, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote: And on that page it asks you to choose a product. Yes I can see this working so that users can navigate from 2 angles: 1) by product they're interested in 2) by type of information they're looking for (they'll be asked to choose the product in that case) Thanks for sharing this. It helps. -Vincent > -----Original Message----- > From: users-bounces(a)xwiki.org [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] On > Behalf Of Vincent Massol > Sent: 19 December 2007 14:51 > To: XWiki Users > Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? > > > On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote: > >> Ok, I know this comes off as nitpicking (not trying to, just sharing >> my own confusion).. >> To download Xwiki, I click "Download". All options are clearly >> labelled, and I know what I'm getting when I select one of them. > > That's because I've hadn't had the time yet to split the download > page into several! (one for each product). > >> I would have thought to get documentation, I click "Documentation".. >> Or even "Support", as with most other product sites. > > >> As an uninitiated user, I would have no clue what each of the >> options >> are. >> >> (Bear with me a moment for the comparison) As a comparison, I >> dropped >> into MediaWiki's homepage (mediawiki.org). >> First thoughts: boring and tedious. But any potential user can >> immediately find the distribution or the documetation. The whole >> process of finding/accessing takes a few seconds. > > As I said this in my previous email this isn't a valid comparison > since Mediawiki is just one product: a wiki. > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: users-bounces(a)xwiki.org [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] On >> Behalf Of Vincent Massol >> Sent: 19 December 2007 13:15 >> To: XWiki Users >> Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? >> >> >> On Dec 19, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Esbach, Brandon wrote: >> >>> I'd have to suggest though that it's not as intuitive as it once >>> was. >> >> I'd agree but that doesn't bother me since xwiki isn't what it used >> to >> be. Even the previous xwiki.org wasn't as intuitive as xwiki was >> when >> everything was fitting on one page ;) >> >> What I'm interested in thought it is to make it as intuitive *as >> possible*. >> >>> Even a search on "documentation" returns no results (for me, >>> anyway). >> >> The search isn't working so no wonder.... :) >> >>> Can there not be a documentation panel to get quick access to each >>> product's documentation? >> >> There is one already... It's called "XWiki Ecosystem". Or do you >> mean >> something else? >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: users-bounces(a)xwiki.org [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] On >>> Behalf Of Vincent Massol >>> Sent: 19 December 2007 12:44 >>> To: XWiki Users >>> Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? >>> >>> >>> On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Víctor A. Rodríguez wrote: >>> >>>> Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>> I'm curious to know. Do others have this issue finding >>>>> documentation too? >>>>> >>>> My main problem is that some links have been moved and need to be >>>> located the first time I try to reach them, e.g. >>> >>> yes but I would say that's normal. >>> >>>> >>>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationMySQL, >>>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/UserGuide/Features (and all >>>> the >>>> UseGuide related links). >>> >>>> IMHO, the real problem is that now the wiki is more product >>>> oriented, instead of features oriented. >>> >>> Well that's not fully true. You can't compare with before since >>> before we were only documenting one product and now we're >>> documenting >>> the platform and all the products... >>> >>>> I remember the previous one were the first you found were all the >>>> features that XWiki has. This is what you want to look at when you >>>> arrive to a site in search for a product, a quick view of features >>>> to stay with the product or to move on to the next one. >>>> >>>> Again, IMHO, not a good move. :-( >>> >>> You mean the new xwiki.org is not a good move? >>> >>> Past users of xwiki.org should go to the http:// >>> enterprise.xwiki.org >>> since the previous version was only documenting that. Then you >>> should >>> be able to find all you had before. >>> >>> Back to your feature-oriented documentation idea. Do you have any >>> example of web site in mind that do this? (I mean websites with >>> more >>> than one product). Or any idea how to implement this? >>> >>> OTOH all the sites I know that have more than one product do it the >>> way we do it on xwiki.org: >>> - http://apache.org, http://jakarta.apache.org >>> - http://hibernate.org >>> - http://jboss.org >>> - etc >>> >>> We could show all the platform features on the main page since all >>> products share these but I don't think that would be a good idea >>> since we would then not be able to present the different products >>> (not enough space). >>> >>> I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it >>> difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation >>> about. >>> Would you have any insight into this? >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> BTW, thanks Vincent for asking and search for problems to solve. >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> You can find documentation by product using the "XWiki >>>>>> Ecosystem" >>>>>> panel. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example if you search XWiki Enterprise documentation you >>>>>> click >>>>>> on "XWiki Enterprise" that go to >>>>>> http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/ where you >>>>>> find a >>>>>> "Quick Links" panel containing documentation.for XE. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2007/12/19, Esbach, Brandon <Esbachb(a)tycoelectronics.com>om>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Probably missing the link somewhere, but I can't seem to find >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> links for the documentation on the xwiki.org site? >>>>>>>

Vincent Massol wrote: (...) Then I think this should be made even more clear on the front page. Many of the links are related to xwiki enterprise, which is confusing: 1) In the XWiki Ecosystem panel, there is a link "Playground (test drive XWiki)". This should probably be "test drive XWiki Enterprise". In fact, maybe it shouldn't be there at all, but appear when you navigate to the enterprise site (in the Quick Links panel, which maybe should be titled "XWiki Enterprise"). 2) In the General Links panel, same goes for screenshots. As far as I can see, all screenshots are from Enterprise instances. 3) Isn't the FAQ really just about the enterprise product? When searching the FAQ page, the words "platform", "manager" and watch doesn't appear once. It fits well into the "Quick Links" panel on the enterprise site. No wonder we're confused ;)

I guess what I'm trying to understand right now is why is it difficult to pick the product for which to read documentation about. Would you have any insight into this?

I would say that a newcomer shouldn't look at platform. He should look at XE, XEM, Watch.

This is the goal of the home page. What's missing do you think?

Hi, -The topics discussed below, touches directly into what we're dealing with right now: We are a telecoms operator and need to install wikis, both for internal use (product development, documentation, infocenter) and for external (customer) use. We haven't decided which wiki to install, but are looking at DokuWiki, Xwiki, TWiki, Mediawiki and others. Given that we don't quite understand which Xwiki to install, and why, and also if Xwiki Enterprise is a commercial product or not, may lead us to erroneously remove Xwiki from the shortlist...

-----Original Message----- From: users-bounces(a)xwiki.org [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] On Behalf Of Karim-Pierre Maalej Sent: 20. desember 2007 13:11 To: XWiki Users Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Documentation? Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide. So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!' Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2). Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform? If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform. Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product. _______________________________________________ users mailing list users(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ users mailing list users(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide. So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'

Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2).

Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform?

If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform.

Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product.

Okay, let's say someone told you about xwiki to build your website, giving you some examples like Curriki. You are interested and want to see if it can fits your needs. You'll want to know how you can install the product and adapt it to your needs, that may be wide.

So e.g. I want to know how to make a site like Curriki. How should I proceed? And first, in which section should I have a look? There's something missing here, maybe just a few words that say to me 'hey guy, if you want to build a website upon XWiki, it's that way!'

Or more basically, let's say that you have installed a distribution of XWiki Entreprise for you to test and let's even suppose that you have clearly understood the difference between 'XWiki' and 'XWiki Enterprise' (which is not always very clear for a newcomer if he heard about XWiki as a something like 'MediaWiki' power 2). Now you just want to build a new skin from scratch. Hmm... where should you have a look into? XWiki Entreprise or XWiki Platform? If you feel logical, providing you've downloaded and you're using XWiki Entreprise, you'll have a look into the documentation for XWiki Entreprise. Well... wrong guess, it's in XWiki Platform. Something like a diagram (or a table, at least), showing in a glance which functionality is part of which product.

+1, we're mostly documenting features and OpenSource development practices. A complete tutorial should be written; for the moment, there are some articles about setting up XWiki, they used to be linked somewhere on xwiki.org.

Great! Perhaps you would like to contribute the skin, too, when it is finalized?

Also see http://www.nabble.com/Creating-my-own-skin-to9476606.html#a9493972 and the related messages, perhaps they can help a bit.

To give you a more actual illustration, I am currently working on designing a skin for XWiki for the iPhone. It takes me quite a lot of time because I have to figure out how all this thing works (the Skins section only suggests tweaks to existing skins, and not redesigning a whole new one from scratch). I intend to write a detailed howto based on my experience when I get to it, but for the moment I am right in the middle of the jungle, exploring and slowly drawing a map of the continent around me :-)

Hi Karim,

In fact, there is no real need for a save.vm template : save is an action of the URL, which is handled by xwiki, and that will send back another template, according to user choices (click on "save" or "save and continue" for example) ; and result of the save process : view.vm (for save and view), edit.vm (for save and continue), or exception.vm (if the save somehow failed) - possibly any template. I started to write a document that will detail this forwarding process and the parameters you can use in XWiki forms and urls (can be handy when you write a skin) : http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWikiURLMappings. It's only a draft now, so can't be taken as complete. What's important for your concern (building a new skin from scratch), is how much of the default skin behavior you want to keep. If you want to keep just everything (let's say, code viewer, history viewer, change viewer, comments & attachments forms and viewers, etc.) then, your best choice is probably to use that albatross skin as a basis for your new skin; otherwise you'll have a big amount of code to write, so be sure this is what you want to do :) Modifying a copy of the albatross skin (or even better, extending the albatross skin by overriding only the templates you need to modify/adding new templates) will allow you to change the layout of rendered html, add/remove things you want/things you don't want... well, let you free to decide of your own skin layout and behavior. Note that it is in the roadmap for XWiki 1.3 to make skin creation easier, moving every velocity templates to a single place (right now they are either in templates/ or in skins/albatross/), and introducing a new "skin extension" mechanism. Hope it answer your questions. Regards, Jérôme. _______________________________________________ users mailing list users(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users