[xwiki-users] XWIKI to generate synchronized multilanguage documents with the help of CAT-Tools like OmegaT?
11 Feb
2012
11 Feb
'12
4:27 p.m.
Dear list,
I´m searching for a wiki, which allows to generate synchronized
multilanguage documents.
What does that mean for me?
I want to define one lanuage (eg. english) as the "main" language. Every
document must first be written in the main language. From this basic
document we can create documents in other languages.
This already works in Xwiki in a nice way.
But what happens, when after a while some changes the document in the
main language? I found no possibility to mark the documents in other
languages as "outdated".
Even more: I would like to get the information, what was changed in the
main language document to be able to synch the other documents in a fast
and sufficient manner.
And then I would like to go one step further:
There are several really good CAT (Computer Aided Translation) tools on
the market. Specially OmegaT (Open Source) is my favorite tool for
translation processes.
So my dream:
If a document in the main language was changed, I get an information
about, that the documents in other languages are outdated (best would be
with a number telling "how much outdated" it is).
When I want to synch again one document, I choose the target language
and XWiki exports all changed sentences to a CAT tool (as already said,
OmegaT is my favorite).
After the translation work is done in OmegaT I can import the new
translated sentences at the right position in the target document in XWiki.
For me, my described dream sounds like as if this will be never possible
since it sounds so complicate (I´m not a programmer).
I tested lot of different wikis and from what I described here, TWiki
had the most (except the Workflow with OmegaT).
The big problem for me is, that I found no good way to export documents
from TWiki to PDF.
What I found with XWiki:
So XWiki is very good in exporting PDF and also can work with
multilanguage documents but can´t tell me something about the state of
the sychronization between two documents (and also can´t work together
with OmegaT).
Is my description about the features of XWiki right?
Do you see a possibility to add some my wished features (maybe there are
some extensions I didn´t found)?
Thanks for reply
Chynte
11 Feb
11 Feb
10:59 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] XWIKI to generate synchronized multilanguage documents with the help of CAT-Tools like OmegaT?
Chynte,
a little bit of that has been done for internationalization phrases which are special
documents (organized as properties).
XWiki has l10n.xwiki.org and at i2geo we made the translation-updater tool:
http://i2geo.net/xwiki/bin/view/TranslationUpdate/
Your feature set is more complete, a lot more.
Where I see a difficulty is at the analysis part.
In another tool, jEditOQMath, I tried to use Google translate; I could somehow create
bizarre "proper nouns" with the mathematical formulæ islands that were there so
that Google translate ignores them. Also, I failed keeping a good indenting of the text
source.
Maybe this can all be done with OmegaT but there are many exceptions there, you want to
keep the Wiki syntax complete but still process such things as a series of word in a link,
reinserting the link thereafter.
paul
Le 11 févr. 2012 à 16:27, Chynte a écrit :
I´m searching for a wiki, which allows to generate
synchronized multilanguage documents.
What does that mean for me?
I want to define one lanuage (eg. english) as the "main" language. Every
document must first be written in the main language. From this basic document we can
create documents in other languages.
This already works in Xwiki in a nice way.
But what happens, when after a while some changes the document in the main language? I
found no possibility to mark the documents in other languages as "outdated".
Even more: I would like to get the information, what was changed in the main language
document to be able to synch the other documents in a fast and sufficient manner.
And then I would like to go one step further:
There are several really good CAT (Computer Aided Translation) tools on the market.
Specially OmegaT (Open Source) is my favorite tool for translation processes.
So my dream:
If a document in the main language was changed, I get an information about, that the
documents in other languages are outdated (best would be with a number telling "how
much outdated" it is).
When I want to synch again one document, I choose the target language and XWiki exports
all changed sentences to a CAT tool (as already said, OmegaT is my favorite).
After the translation work is done in OmegaT I can import the new translated sentences at
the right position in the target document in XWiki.
For me, my described dream sounds like as if this will be never possible since it sounds
so complicate (I´m not a programmer).
I tested lot of different wikis and from what I described here, TWiki had the most
(except the Workflow with OmegaT).
The big problem for me is, that I found no good way to export documents from TWiki to
PDF.
What I found with XWiki:
So XWiki is very good in exporting PDF and also can work with multilanguage documents but
can´t tell me something about the state of the sychronization between two documents (and
also can´t work together with OmegaT).
Is my description about the features of XWiki right?
Do you see a possibility to add some my wished features (maybe there are some extensions
I didn´t found)?
Thanks for reply
Chynte
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
16 Feb
16 Feb
7:57 p.m.
Hi Paul,
thanks for your reply.
Yes, you are absolutly right: My "dream" is much more as what was done
in i2geo.
On the other side, there are two open source projects showing, that's
possible.
1. As I mentioned, TWiki is able to show the "changes" made in one
language vs. another language
2. OmegaT shows, that it is able to automatically extract sentences.
Maybe here we misunderstood each other:
I do not expect an automatic translation of documents - it is and will
be for at least the next years a job for human translators, if you want
quality.
OmegaT is "just" a tool, which helps the translator to do the job. It
contains a database holding all already translated sentences (and words)
and if you need to translate a new sentence, OmegaT checks, if a similar
sentence was already translated and propose it also for the actual one
(with the ability to change the proposal, of course).
XWiki seems to be one of the best Wiki-Implementations if you need
multilanguage and high quality export and OmegaT is for translation:
--> I would like to have a "bridge" to connect both.
Chynte
On 11.02.2012 22:59, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
Chynte,
a little bit of that has been done for internationalization phrases which are special
documents (organized as properties).
XWiki has l10n.xwiki.org and at i2geo we made the translation-updater tool:
http://i2geo.net/xwiki/bin/view/TranslationUpdate/
Your feature set is more complete, a lot more.
Where I see a difficulty is at the analysis part.
In another tool, jEditOQMath, I tried to use Google translate; I could somehow create
bizarre "proper nouns" with the mathematical formulæ islands that were there so
that Google translate ignores them. Also, I failed keeping a good indenting of the text
source.
Maybe this can all be done with OmegaT but there are many exceptions there, you want to
keep the Wiki syntax complete but still process such things as a series of word in a link,
reinserting the link thereafter.
paul
Le 11 févr. 2012 à 16:27, Chynte a écrit :
I´m searching for a wiki, which allows to
generate synchronized multilanguage documents.
What does that mean for me?
I want to define one lanuage (eg. english) as the "main" language. Every
document must first be written in the main language. From this basic document we can
create documents in other languages.
This already works in Xwiki in a nice way.
But what happens, when after a while some changes the document in the main language? I
found no possibility to mark the documents in other languages as "outdated".
Even more: I would like to get the information, what was changed in the main language
document to be able to synch the other documents in a fast and sufficient manner.
And then I would like to go one step further:
There are several really good CAT (Computer Aided Translation) tools on the market.
Specially OmegaT (Open Source) is my favorite tool for translation processes.
So my dream:
If a document in the main language was changed, I get an information about, that the
documents in other languages are outdated (best would be with a number telling "how
much outdated" it is).
When I want to synch again one document, I choose the target language and XWiki exports
all changed sentences to a CAT tool (as already said, OmegaT is my favorite).
After the translation work is done in OmegaT I can import the new translated sentences at
the right position in the target document in XWiki.
For me, my described dream sounds like as if this will be never possible since it sounds
so complicate (I´m not a programmer).
I tested lot of different wikis and from what I described here, TWiki had the most
(except the Workflow with OmegaT).
The big problem for me is, that I found no good way to export documents from TWiki to
PDF.
What I found with XWiki:
So XWiki is very good in exporting PDF and also can work with multilanguage documents but
can´t tell me something about the state of the sychronization between two documents (and
also can´t work together with OmegaT).
Is my description about the features of XWiki right?
Do you see a possibility to add some my wished features (maybe there are some extensions
I didn´t found)?
Thanks for reply
Chynte
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users 
17 Feb
17 Feb
2:11 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:57 PM, Chynte <chynte(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
thanks for your reply.
Yes, you are absolutly right: My "dream" is much more as what was done in
i2geo.
On the other side, there are two open source projects showing, that's
possible.
1. As I mentioned, TWiki is able to show the "changes" made in one language
vs. another language
2. OmegaT shows, that it is able to automatically extract sentences.
Maybe here we misunderstood each other:
I do not expect an automatic translation of documents - it is and will be
for at least the next years a job for human translators, if you want
quality.
OmegaT is "just" a tool, which helps the translator to do the job. It
contains a database holding all already translated sentences (and words) and
if you need to translate a new sentence, OmegaT checks, if a similar
sentence was already translated and propose it also for the actual one (with
the ability to change the proposal, of course).
XWiki seems to be one of the best Wiki-Implementations if you need
multilanguage and high quality export and OmegaT is for translation:
--> I would like to have a "bridge" to connect both.
Here are some ideas based on your comments:
mark the documents in other languages as "outdated":
** behind the scene each language is stored in it's own document entry
so it's easy to compare the last content modification date of all the
languages of the same page and display whatever you want from a
special color to an ordered list of the languages based on it I think
** it's possible to write a listener which will be called each time a
document is modified, if this document has several languages and what
is modified is the default one then you can send some notification to
the other languages teams/managers or something like that
OmegaT integration:
** I see on http://www.omegat.org/en/omegat.html that OmegaT is
supposed to support "MediaWiki (Wikipedia)", if that really means it
support live Wikipedia edition it's probably possible to write the
same kind of OmegaT plugin for XWiki based on either the REST or
XML-RPC interface to communicate with XWiki. That should not be too
hard especially since OmegaT is written in Java too if I understood
well.
** It's easy to add a button in the menu and write a script/component
to export and import the current page into whatever format is the best
fit for transferring translations.
In any case that sounds like a nice idea for the next Google Summer of
Code if XWiki is selected :)
Chynte
On 11.02.2012 22:59, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
--
Thomas Mortagne
Chynte,
a little bit of that has been done for internationalization phrases which
are special documents (organized as properties).
XWiki has l10n.xwiki.org and at i2geo we made the translation-updater
tool:
http://i2geo.net/xwiki/bin/view/TranslationUpdate/
Your feature set is more complete, a lot more.
Where I see a difficulty is at the analysis part.
In another tool, jEditOQMath, I tried to use Google translate; I could
somehow create bizarre "proper nouns" with the mathematical formulæ islands
that were there so that Google translate ignores them. Also, I failed
keeping a good indenting of the text source.
Maybe this can all be done with OmegaT but there are many exceptions
there, you want to keep the Wiki syntax complete but still process such
things as a series of word in a link, reinserting the link thereafter.
paul
Le 11 févr. 2012 à 16:27, Chynte a écrit :
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
I´m searching for a wiki, which allows to generate synchronized
multilanguage documents.
What does that mean for me?
I want to define one lanuage (eg. english) as the "main" language. Every
document must first be written in the main language. From this basic
document we can create documents in other languages.
This already works in Xwiki in a nice way.
But what happens, when after a while some changes the document in the
main language? I found no possibility to mark the documents in other
languages as "outdated".
Even more: I would like to get the information, what was changed in the
main language document to be able to synch the other documents in a fast and
sufficient manner.
And then I would like to go one step further:
There are several really good CAT (Computer Aided Translation) tools on
the market. Specially OmegaT (Open Source) is my favorite tool for
translation processes.
So my dream:
If a document in the main language was changed, I get an information
about, that the documents in other languages are outdated (best would be
with a number telling "how much outdated" it is).
When I want to synch again one document, I choose the target language and
XWiki exports all changed sentences to a CAT tool (as already said, OmegaT
is my favorite).
After the translation work is done in OmegaT I can import the new
translated sentences at the right position in the target document in XWiki.
For me, my described dream sounds like as if this will be never possible
since it sounds so complicate (I´m not a programmer).
I tested lot of different wikis and from what I described here, TWiki had
the most (except the Workflow with OmegaT).
The big problem for me is, that I found no good way to export documents
from TWiki to PDF.
What I found with XWiki:
So XWiki is very good in exporting PDF and also can work with
multilanguage documents but can´t tell me something about the state of the
sychronization between two documents (and also can´t work together with
OmegaT).
Is my description about the features of XWiki right?
Do you see a possibility to add some my wished features (maybe there are
some extensions I didn´t found)?
Thanks for reply
Chynte
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
2:16 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] XWIKI to generate synchronized multilanguage documents with the help of CAT-Tools like OmegaT?
Le 17 févr. 2012 à 14:11, Thomas Mortagne a écrit :
Here are some ideas based on your comments:
One point you omitted Thomas: XWiki's API gives an easy access to the diffs (when
programming with XWki, I think this is not behind the REST interface). So that could
easily be used.
So did I understand correctly that OmegaT would be a desktop client in such a scenario?
Le 17 févr. 2012 à 14:11, Thomas Mortagne a écrit :
In any case that sounds like a nice idea for the next
Google Summer of
Code if XWiki is selected :)
I definitely agree.
We'd need to gather a few more realistic application cases for this or?
paul
2:40 p.m.
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Paul Libbrecht <paul(a)hoplahup.net> wrote:
Le 17 févr. 2012 à 14:11, Thomas Mortagne a écrit :
Sure diff give extra information in the notification mail for example,
I was just referring to the marker Chynte was talking about to know if
a language is outdated.
Here are some ideas based on your comments:
One point you omitted Thomas: XWiki's API gives an easy access to the diffs (when
programming with XWki, I think this is not behind the REST interface). So that could
easily be used.
So did I understand correctly that OmegaT would be a desktop client in such a scenario?
Yep. Is there any other way than desktop to use OmegaT ? Did not digged much.
Le 17 févr. 2012 à 14:11, Thomas Mortagne a écrit :
--
Thomas Mortagne
In any case that sounds like a nice idea for the
next Google Summer of
Code if XWiki is selected :)
I definitely agree.
We'd need to gather a few more realistic application cases for this or?
paul
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
23 Feb
23 Feb
6:41 p.m.
Hi All !
Your replies sounds much more optimistic now.
It sounds for me, that you have good ideas how to solve my wishes (every
small step is a win).
But I didn´t know, how I should proceed now to do my best to go in the
direction you described. Please remember, that I never programmed
something (I know the theory, but that´s not enough).
Do you have hints for me, what I can do?
Thanks so far for your brainstorming
Chynte
On 17.02.2012 14:40, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Paul
Libbrecht<paul(a)hoplahup.net> wrote:
Le 17 févr. 2012 à 14:11, Thomas Mortagne a écrit :
Sure diff give extra information in the notification mail for
example,
I was just referring to the marker Chynte was talking about to know if
a language is outdated.
Here are some ideas based on your comments:
One point you omitted Thomas: XWiki's API gives an easy access to the diffs
(when programming with XWki, I think this is not behind the REST interface). So that could
easily be used. So did I understand correctly that OmegaT would
be a desktop client in such a scenario?
Yep. Is there any other way than desktop to
use OmegaT ? Did not digged much.
Le 17 févr. 2012 à 14:11, Thomas Mortagne a écrit
:
In any case that sounds like a nice idea for the
next Google Summer of
Code if XWiki is selected :)
I definitely agree.
We'd need to gather a few more realistic application cases for this or?
paul
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
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6 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Chynte -
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Thomas Mortagne