26 Nov
2015
26 Nov
'15
6:26 p.m.
Hello
In a Mediawiki page, a user can added [[category:my category]], and the
page will be accessible from the 'my category' category. The same page can
be added to many categories.
The nested page concept seems to be hierarchical only, so a page belongs in
a tree, but cannot therefore be in other trees.
Also, in Mediawiki, there is the possibility (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Embed_page) to embed pages ? I have
tried using the mediawiki syntax for this but it does not seem to work.
--
Anton Hughes
26 Nov
26 Nov
6:31 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
Hi Anton,
On 26 Nov 2015 at 18:26:58, Anton Hughes (ah@tradeworks.io(mailto:ah@tradeworks.io))
wrote:
Hello
In a Mediawiki page, a user can added [[category:my category]], and the
page will be accessible from the 'my category' category. The same page can
be added to many categories.
The nested page concept seems to be hierarchical only, so a page belongs in
a tree, but cannot therefore be in other trees.
I think this is similar to tags:
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Tag+Application
Also, in Mediawiki, there is the possibility (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Embed_page) to embed pages ? I have
tried using the mediawiki syntax for this but it does not seem to work.
See:
* http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Include+Macro
* http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Display+Macro
Thanks
-Vincent
Anton Hughes
6:54 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 November 2015 at 18:31, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Thanks Vincent
I have tried both of the above, and get no results - and no errors either.
I have a page called MyExamplePage, and then, in another page, I add:
{{include reference="MyExamplePage"/}}
{{display reference="MyExamplePage"/}}
Do I need to have the full path in reference? I would hope not, as I would
expect the wiki to take care of this.
I am used to working in Mediawiki, where typically all documents sit on the
root, and can be linked and referenced simply by the name of the document,
and structure of the content (categories) does not affect linking
(generally, unless it is in another namespace).
--
Anton Hughes
7:02 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 Nov 2015 at 18:54:35, Anton Hughes (ah@tradeworks.io(mailto:ah@tradeworks.io))
wrote:
On 26 November 2015 at 18:31, vincent@massol.net(mailto:vincent@massol.net) wrote:
Thanks Vincent
I have tried both of the above, and get no results - and no errors either.
I have a page called MyExamplePage, and then, in another page, I add:
{{include reference="MyExamplePage"/}}
{{display reference="MyExamplePage"/}}
Do I need to have the full path in reference? I would hope not, as I would expect the
wiki to take care of this.
I am used to working in Mediawiki, where typically all documents sit on the root, and can
be linked and referenced simply by the name of the document, and structure of the content
(categories) does not affect linking (generally, unless it is in another namespace).
You need a reference that is either absolute or relative to the current page where the
macro is used.
Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show you what to use.
Thanks
-Vincent
Anton Hughes
7:11 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 November 2015 at 19:02, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/test/
http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/MyExamplePage/
--
Anton Hughes
You need a reference that is either absolute or
relative to the current
page where the macro is used.
Agh - so its not possible to reference just a page - I also need to
reference the space/category.
I think this is a really bad design. In the Mediawiki world you just need
to know the name of the document. Which category it is in is not required.
I assume then, that if I move MyExamplePage to a new space(?)/category it
will break the pages where I have the includes/displays.
Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show you what to use.
7:38 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 Nov 2015 at 19:11:37, Anton Hughes (ah@tradeworks.io(mailto:ah@tradeworks.io))
wrote:
These 2 pages are not relative to each other.
In MyExamplePage, you’d need to write:
{{include reference=“test.WebHome”/}}
Note that it seems we have a bug (not related to your example above, just mentioning it
for completeness); I’ve just created http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12861 for it.
Now to understand what this “WebHome” does here is a bit complex. Starting with XWiki 7.2
we’re moving from a Page/Space paradigm to a Nested Pages one and this is currently
causing some friction to understand it for newcomers. I’m not sure how we’re going to
handle this (except that at some point we’ll need to rewrite our model to remove the
concept of spaces probably).
Does that
help: http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization#HHist… ?
@devs:
I think we need some better explanation. Maybe you can help tune the doc. I think we need
a documentation page on xwiki.org to explain what is a Page Reference.
On http://rendering.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax#HLinks we explain it as:
"A wiki page reference in the form [[wikiName:] space.] (page). Examples: WebHome,
Main.WebHome, mywiki:Main.WebHome”. However I think we should instead link to that page
about Page Reference, and explain why you have to use something a bit different from what
you see in the UI.
Thanks
-Vincent
On 26 November 2015 at 19:02, vincent@massol.net(mailto:vincent@massol.net) wrote:
Indeed right now we don’t rename references used in Macro parameters upon rename. We do
rename backlinks though (references in links).
You need a reference that is either absolute or
relative to the current page where the macro is used.
Agh - so its not possible to
reference just a page - I also need to reference the space/category.
I think this is a really bad design. In the Mediawiki world you just need to know the
name of the document. Which category it is in is not required.
I assume then, that if I move MyExamplePage to a new space(?)/category it will break the
pages where I have the includes/displays. Give us the
full name of your 2 pages and we can show you what to use.
http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/test/
http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/MyExamplePage/ Anton Hughes
8:17 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 November 2015 at 19:38, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
These 2 pages are not relative to each other.
Ok, now Im confused. Ive been doing web development for more years than I
care to count, and relative, to me, means 'they are next to each other'.
See http://www.scriptingmaster.com/html/relative-link.asp
These two pages sit next to each other in the same tree.
Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show
you what to use.
http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/test/
http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/MyExamplePage/
In MyExamplePage, you’d need to write:
{{include reference=“test.WebHome”/}}
What is WebHome? And why do I need this when I am referencing relative
document?
Note that it seems we have a bug (not related to your example above, just
mentioning it for completeness); I’ve just created
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12861 for it.
Now to understand what this “WebHome” does here is a bit complex. Starting
with XWiki 7.2 we’re moving from a Page/Space paradigm to a Nested Pages
one and this is currently causing some friction to understand it for
newcomers. I’m not sure how we’re going to handle this (except that at some
point we’ll need to rewrite our model to remove the concept of spaces
probably).
Does that help:
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization#HHist…
?
Yes it does - thanks. But, I think you have given it the wrong name. If I
am not wrong, this is just a tree structure. Not nested.
@devs:
I think we need some better explanation. Maybe you can help tune the doc.
I think we need a documentation page on xwiki.org to explain what is a
Page Reference. On
http://rendering.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax#HLinks we
explain it as: "A wiki page reference in the form [[wikiName:] space.]
(page). Examples: WebHome, Main.WebHome, mywiki:Main.WebHome”. However I
think we should instead link to that page about Page Reference, and explain
why you have to use something a bit different from what you see in the UI.
I think adding more documentation will help. But - IMO - there is a
fundamental design flaw. You have built XWiki to use a tree structure of
documents. And documents MUST be referenced using the tree structure.
Compare this to Mediawiki where all you need to know is the doucment name,
eg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Medal_(South_Africa). This simple
concept is enough for millions of wikipedia documents. Wikipedia documents
can be any number of categories - and this does not affect how they are
referenced.
Again, IMO, the tree structure is something that early CMSs introduced, as
it basically replicates the file system in an OS. Wikis improved on this
by realizing that:
- documents often need to be in multiple categories
- users tend to want to find a specific document by name only
When the unique id of a document is the document name you then have:
- more friendly urls - wiki/my_document
- more flexibility on how documents are organized - a document could be
in more than one 'folder' at a time.
- easier to link to documents
--
Anton Hughes
8:30 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 Nov 2015 at 20:17:54, Anton Hughes (ah@tradeworks.io(mailto:ah@tradeworks.io))
wrote:
Yeah I know, hard to understand ATM since XWiki 7.2. See my previous answer for details.
If you want to root all your wiki pages under a single space in XWiki, feel free to do it.
That will work :) But please consider that thousands of xwiki users don’t want to do that
and that’s why we’ve created the (sub)Wiki>Space>Page hierarchy in the past (and the
parent/child one too) and since even that wasn’t enough for our users we’re now moving to
Nested Pages.
On 26 November 2015 at 19:38, vincent@massol.net(mailto:vincent@massol.net) wrote:
These 2 pages are not relative to each other. Ok, now Im confused. Ive been doing
web development for more years than I care to count, and relative, to me, means 'they
are next to each other'. See http://www.scriptingmaster.com/html/relative-link.asp
These two pages sit next to each other in the same tree.
The root of the reference is the path starting after “view”. So you have:
[root]
|_ test
|_ WebHome
|_ MyExamplePage
|_ WebHome
As you can see, both WebHome are not relative to each other. As I mentioned the hard part
is in understanding this WebHome (the name of the page) from which we’re transitioning
from.
To be clear, in this example:
* Space: test, Page: WebHome
* Space: MyExamplePage, Page: WebHome
Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show
you what to use.
http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/test/
http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/MyExamplePage/ In
MyExamplePage, you’d need to write:
{{include reference=“test.WebHome”/}}
What is WebHome? And why do I need this when
I am referencing relative document? Note that it
seems we have a bug (not related to your example above, just mentioning it for
completeness); I’ve just created http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12861 for it.
Now to understand what this “WebHome” does here is a bit complex. Starting with XWiki 7.2
we’re moving from a Page/Space paradigm to a Nested Pages one and this is currently
causing some friction to understand it for newcomers. I’m not sure how we’re going to
handle this (except that at some point we’ll need to rewrite our model to remove the
concept of spaces probably).
Does that help:
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization#HHist… ?
Yes it does - thanks. But, I think you have given it the wrong name. If I am not wrong,
this is just a tree structure. Not nested.
@devs:
I think we need some better explanation. Maybe you can help tune the doc. I think we need
a documentation page on xwiki.org(http://xwiki.org) to explain what is a Page Reference.
On http://rendering.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax#HLinks we explain it as:
"A wiki page reference in the form [[wikiName:] space.] (page). Examples: WebHome,
Main.WebHome, mywiki:Main.WebHome”. However I think we should instead link to that page
about Page Reference, and explain why you have to use something a bit different from what
you see in the UI.
I think adding more documentation will help. But - IMO - there is a fundamental design
flaw. You have built XWiki to use a tree structure of documents. And documents MUST be
referenced using the tree structure. Compare this to Mediawiki where all you need to know
is the doucment name, eg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Medal_(South_Africa). This
simple concept is enough for millions of wikipedia documents. Wikipedia documents can be
any number of categories - and this does not affect how they are referenced. Again, IMO, the tree structure is something that early
CMSs introduced, as it basically replicates the file system in an OS. Wikis improved on
this by realizing that:
documents often need to be in multiple categories
users tend to want to find a specific document by name only
When the unique id of a document is the document name you then have:
That was true 20 years ago when wikis started :) Since then, they’ve learnt that it’s not
enough for users for organizing their content. Users want the same concept as what they
have in their computers i.e. folders and files.
more friendly urls - wiki/my_document
more flexibility on how documents are organized - a document could be in more than one
'folder' at a time.
XWiki has tags for this as I already mentioned.
easier to link to documents
Your choice as a user. Again, you can decide to put all your content in a single space if
that’s what you want but I can easily bet that you users would not like you… :)
Thanks
-Vincent
Anton Hughes
27 Nov
27 Nov
3:50 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Anton Hughes <ah(a)tradeworks.io> wrote:
On 26 November 2015 at 19:38, vincent(a)massol.net
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
I think adding more documentation will help. But - IMO - there is a
fundamental design flaw. You have built XWiki to use a tree structure of
documents. And documents MUST be referenced using the tree structure.
Compare this to Mediawiki where all you need to know is the doucment name,
eg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Medal_(South_Africa). This simple
concept is enough for millions of wikipedia documents. Wikipedia documents
can be any number of categories - and this does not affect how they are
referenced.
Again, IMO, the tree structure is something that early CMSs introduced, as
it basically replicates the file system in an OS. Wikis improved on this
by realizing that:
- documents often need to be in multiple categories
- users tend to want to find a specific document by name only
> > Give us the full name of your 2 pages
and we can show you what to
use.
These 2 pages are not relative to each other.
Ok, now Im confused. Ive been doing web development for more years than I
care to count, and relative, to me, means 'they are next to each other'.
See http://www.scriptingmaster.com/html/relative-link.asp
These two pages sit next to each other in the same tree.
In MyExamplePage, you’d need to write:
{{include reference=“test.WebHome”/}}
What is WebHome? And why do I need this when I am referencing relative
document?
Note that it seems we have a bug (not related to your example above, just
mentioning it for completeness); I’ve just created
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12861 for it.
Now to understand what this “WebHome” does here is a bit complex.
Starting
with XWiki 7.2 we’re moving from a Page/Space
paradigm to a Nested Pages
one and this is currently causing some friction to understand it for
newcomers. I’m not sure how we’re going to handle this (except that at
some
point we’ll need to rewrite our model to remove
the concept of spaces
probably).
Does that help:
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization#HHist…
?
Yes it does - thanks. But, I think you have given it the wrong name. If I
am not wrong, this is just a tree structure. Not nested.
@devs:
I think we need some better explanation. Maybe you can help tune the doc.
I think we need a documentation page on xwiki.org to explain what is a
Page Reference. On
http://rendering.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax#HLinks we
explain it as: "A wiki page reference in the form [[wikiName:] space.]
(page). Examples: WebHome, Main.WebHome, mywiki:Main.WebHome”. However I
think we should instead link to that page about Page Reference, and
explain
why you have to use something a bit different
from what you see in the
UI.
When the unique id of a document is the document name
you then have:
- more friendly urls - wiki/my_document
Whether you have "wiki/my_document" or "wiki/my/document" it's the
same
thing conceptually. Both "my_document" and "my/document" are page
identifiers. You used '_' to namespace your page, I used '/'. Sooner or
later we all have to deal with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_collision
. In XWiki you can avoid name collisions using both
"Korea_Medal_(South_Africa)" and "Korea Medal/South Africa" (or
"South
Africa/Korea Medal"). I prefer the latter.
- more flexibility on how documents are organized - a document could be
in more than one 'folder' at a time.
- easier to link to documents
--
Anton Hughes
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