18 Sep
2013
18 Sep
'13
9:10 a.m.
+1 for E
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea
<mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
Same as Denis.
+1 for E (Caty's proposal). I don't like the rest.
Thanks,
Marius
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
--
Thomas Mortagne
Hi devs,
Here is my views on the current proposals:
Proposal A : Tiny "Home menu".
-0, terms and menu options are not as appropriate as E, the duplication at
main level is confusing.
Proposal B : XWiki right side menu
-1, please do not mix users and content. From end user POV, I am not sure
XWiki, System or whatever could have any sense.
Proposal C : Wiki crowded menu
0, could be a light way to do it, but prevent direct access to user
administration, this is looks like a farm version.
Proposal D : Add a menu on the top-left logo.
-1, the logo could be customized or even removed, keeping the menu is
usually easy, but keeping the logo and these functions could quickly became
a nightmare on a customized site. Moreover, it also prevent direct user
administration.
Proposal E : The complete "Home menu" proposed by Caty.
+1, this is my favorite right now, especially looking at the upcoming skin
when the "Add" menu will be moved out of the top bar.
I do not understand why we would like to hide the fact that the main wiki
is "on top" of others wikis. This is currently true technically speaking,
but it also make sense from a user and content POV. When used in the
workspace configuration, the main wiki will hold the users but also the
main home and welcome pages, the navigation between workspaces, the global
activity stream, ... it is the entry point, the portal for all the
subwikis. The only case where the main wiki get almost useless is in the
farm configuration, but this is not our subject here.
Therefore, I see proposal E as the one that represent real hierarchy
properly for the end user.
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <
gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
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Seems RC1 is soon, I encourage everybody to give his point of view in order
to make a choice.
Thanks,
Guillaume
2013/9/12 Jeremie BOUSQUET <jeremie.bousquet(a)gmail.com>
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Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
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http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs Hi,
2013/9/12 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com>
> Indeed, the proposal A was based on
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/PortalMenuinstead
> of
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu .
>
> Then I suggest to call your proposal: E.
>
> Let me recap:
>
> - Proposal A : Tiny "Home menu".
>
> - Proposal B : XWiki right side menu
>
> - Proposal C : Wiki crowded menu
>
> - Proposal D : Add a menu on the top-left logo.
>
> - Proposal E : The complete "Home menu" proposed by Caty.
>
> --
>
> About E:
> Some issues IMHO:
> - The amount of menus is not the same when you are in the home wiki and
> when you are in the subwiki.
> - Do we really need to have a direct access to the documents, the users
and
> the applications of the home wiki when you are in the subwiki? Can't it
be
> confusing?
>
I would say: it depends.
In "farm" concept it's almost completely useless, because different
persons
will administrate different subwikis of their own
and someone else will
administrate main wiki.
In "workspace" concept, I find very useful to be able to administrate
main
wiki without having to browse to main wiki,
because I may find myself
wanting to administer main wiki just anytime, while I administer a
subwiki
merely to manage users allowed in this subwiki
... and, yes, install
extensions and choose a color theme.
To be honest, I use 5.1 + Workspace extension, and I hardly have any
issue
with navigating through wikis, administering this
or that etc ... The
only
thing I would miss, are some quick links to
switch to a wiki or the other
(instead of having to browse to a "Workspace directory" page), but this
kind of thing does not really scale with numerous wikis.
I like Vincent's idea to tweak the home logo, as I never quite liked the
idea of a "Home" menu - home in websites is typically the homepage, and
nothing else.
>
> Thanks,
> Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau
>
>
>
> 2013/9/12 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac(a)gmail.com>
>
> > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > You forgot one proposal which I like:
> > >
> > > == Proposal D ==
> > >
> > > * Generalize the XWiki home (the logo at the top left)
> > > * When you click on the logo you get to the home of the current
wiki
> > > * The proposal is about
generalizing that feature to allow
navigating
> > > either to the wiki home, to the
main wiki or to the list of other
wikis
> > > * It could be done by showing a menu arrow when the mouse hover
over
> the
> > > logo and when the mouse moves over the arrow, show a menu with
first
> > entry
> > > = "Main Wiki" (or "Home Wiki" if you prefer) and a
second entry
with
> > "Wiki
> > > Index" for example.
> > >
> > > What I like with this is that the user is already used to use the
logo
> as
> > > a way to navigate to the home of wiki.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > On Sep 12, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau <
> > > gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi developers.
> > > >
> > > > Tuesday evening, after trying to fix all issues that integrate
> > Workspace
> > > in
> > > > XE made, I had a bit of time to work on this JIRA:
> > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9341 "Menu improvements when
> > > Workspaces
> > > > activated".
> > > >
> > > > The idea was to quickly implement the Caty's proposal for M2
(which
> was
> > > > scheduled for the day after). I made it and I sent a pull
request.
I
> > have
> > > > also sent a mail to Vincent to show him my work.
> > > >
> > > > == Proposal A ==
> > > > There is some screenshots (Proposal A):
> > > > Logged as admin:
> > > >
> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png
> > > > Not logged as admin:
>
http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu-non-admi…
> >
> >
>
> > > >
> > > > You can get it from this commit:
>
https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/8c1c1bac2cde30f9024525e50249…
> >
> >
>
> > > > (except that I have changed
the wiki icon for this screenshot)
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > So I just want to link again the 'Home Menu' full proposal
> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu
> >
> > In your screenshot is:
> > * Home
> > ** Administer Main Wiki
> > ** Wiki Directory
> >
> > What it was proposed:
> > * Home
> > ** Administration
> > ** Wikis Index
> > ** ....
> >
> >
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
> >
> >
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
> >
> > "Administer Main Wiki" was proposed as:
> > - "Administration"
> > or
> > - "Administer Home" / "Administrate Home"
> > depending if you were located in Home or in the (sub)wiki.
> >
> >
> > > > We though this menu was confusing and not consistent with the
current
> > > menus:
> > > > - Why do we have a link to the *main wiki* administration when we
are
> > in
> > > a
> > > > (sub)wiki? Does it make sense?
> > >
> >
> > As an administrator I think it has sense to be able to administrate
both
> > the current (sub)wiki you are visiting and also the home (mainwiki).
> >
> >
> > > > - Why do we have the main wiki (called Home) in the left of the
> current
> > > > wiki, space and page? The fact that there is actually a
"main"
and
> > > several
> > > > "sub" wikis is only due to the implementation. We could
imagine,
in
> the
> > > > future, a new implementation where there is no distinction
between
> > "main"
> > > > and "sub", but where we have an independent
"system" that allows
the
> > > users
> > > > to create and manage their wikis. Then, it seems better to call
the
> > menu
> > > > "System" or "XWiki".
> > >
> >
> > The "main" and "sub" is transformed in "home" and
"wiki". The menu
> displays
> > the hierarchy: Home > Wiki > Space > Page and is also consistent with
the
> > way our cascading works for our preferences (rights, etc.)
> >
> > > - When we don't have the admin right on the main wiki, we only
have a
> > > > > single item in this menu, meanwhile wiki, space and page has
more
> > > > content.
> > > > > It does not look good.
> > > >
> > >
> > > In the proposal there is
> >
> >
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
> > Although this is not currently
implemented, the idea is that we could
> also
> > list for example the "Users Index" a.k.a the "User
Directory"
(especially
> > since workspaces have only global users and the directory is located
in
> the
> > main wiki). In the proposal I've used " *** Index" in order to
have a
> > consistency between the index/directory applications naming.
> >
> > So the idea is that even if now there is only one entry in the
submenu,
> > we
> > > could have more entries (if they are related to the Home (mainwiki)).
> > >
> > >
> > > > > - If you are in the main wiki, you have "Administer main
wiki"
> twice:
> > > > once
> > > > > in the Home menu, once in the Wiki menu.
> > > > > - The left menu has too many items.
> > > >
> > >
> > > If you are on the main wiki, the menu changes from
> > > * Menu in the (sub)wiki
> >
> >
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
> > > in
> > > * Menu in the Home (mainwiki)
> >
> >
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
> > >
> > > The left menu contains items related to 'spatial organization of
> content'
> > > inside XWiki (wikis, spaces, pages)
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > == Proposal B ==
> > > > > Vincent thought it was not good enough to be integrated in
5.2M2,
> so
> > we
> > > > > started to iterate until having this proposal:
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png(pro…
> > > > B).
> > > >
> > > > Why putting this menu to the right side? It's because, on the
left
> > side,
> > > we
> > > > have Wiki/Space/Page, where you have actions that you can
actually
> > > achieve
> > > > on these Wiki, Space and Page. Actions like "Administer",
"Delete"
or
> > > > "Rename". The XWiki menu does not provide actions like
that, it
just
> > > > provides some shortcuts to navigate thought the wikis. It's more
a
> > > "System"
> > > > menu, like the Profile menu, or the Register action. That's why
we
> put
> > it
> > > > there. Moreover, it make the left menu smaller, which is less
> > confusing.
> > >
> >
> > I don't like this proposal because is breaking the content
organization
> > hierarchy: home > wiki > space
> page.
> > You can consider our current menu to be composed of "Content ||
User".
> The
> > "Content" part allows you to create new content and to see your
location
> in
> > the content hierarchy. The right menu is dedicated to User related
> actions.
> >
> > Also I don't like that it uses the name XWiki. Users want to
customize
> > their instance and not even show
it's running on XWiki, making it
their
> > > own.
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > == Proposal C ==
> > > > > We had also this idea:
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png(proposal…
){kind=link}
> > > > But we didn't like it,
because the "Wiki Directory" and the "Main
> Wiki"
> > > > link are not related to the current wiki, meanwhile actions like
> > > > "Administer", "Index" or "Delete" are.
> > >
> >
> > Crowded and serves as a double function.
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > After having created the proposal B, I asked Vincent: "What
should
I
> > do?
> > > Do
> > > > I commit it, without asking to the community?". He said yes,
because
> he
> > > > wanted to have something to show to the community that can still
be
> > > > changed
> > > > > for the RC1, and he applied the pull request.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, let me list again the 3 proposals we have:
> > > > >
> > > > > A - "Home" menu (Caty's proposal):
> > > > > Current implementation:
> > > > >
> > http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png
> > > > > Mockup with the new skin:
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/PortalMenu/Men…
> > > >
> > > > B - "XWiki" right menu:
> > > >
> >
http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png
> > > >
> > > > C - Add actions to the "Wiki" menu:
> > > >
http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png
> > > >
> > > > I propose to start a thread where you can all give your opinion,
> > > regarding
> > > > one of these proposals, and you can also bring new ideas. We must
> have
> > a
> > > > consensus for the RC1!
> > > >
> > > > 0 for proposal A (the left menu is too heavy).
> > > > +0 for proposal B (not perfect IMHO).
> > > > -1 for proposal C.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > So, my vote goes to Ver. A, but the way it was proposed:
> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu
> >
> > (Wiki / (sub)wiki)
> > * Home
> > ** Administration
> > ** ---
> > ** Wikis Index/Directory
> > ** Documents Index
> >
> > (Home/mainwiki)
> > * Home
> > ** Watch Home
> > ** Administer Home
> > ** ---
> > ** Wikis Index
> > ** Documents Index
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> > > > Louis-Marie
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
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> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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