30 Jul
2013
30 Jul
'13
2:21 p.m.
Hi,
very nice mockups.
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi Caty,
See below.
On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
* "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots which the
colibri skin, right?
* "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following since we
don't have any UI for them:
** Administration. I don't even know what it means at the global
portal/system level
Right now it's the administration of the Main wiki, which is the only place
from which you can manage global users.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>
> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu(a)xwiki.org> wrote:
>
>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>> Hi devs,
>>>
>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2 some days ago,
there's
> this time:
>>>
>>> "
>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home page - Caty +
> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but he's
going
to
> work full time on XWiki development and
especially on UI aspects from
now
> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need you!
:)
>>> "
>>>
>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having Workspaces
> integrated in the default XAR. Thus I'm sending this email to ensure we
all
> agree about this.
>>>
>>> The rationale is:
>>>
>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki (standalone
> version or install the default XAR) they get to see the power of XWiki.
One
> of the very important differentiator of XWiki
vs other wikis/solutions
is
> our multi-tenancy feature and most of people
downloading and installing
> XWiki don't see it.
>>>
>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the committers mostly
> polish the default which doesn't include those. The UIs of XEM/Wiki
Manager
> need polishing. Having them in default will
ensure that we take them
into
> account and make them first class citizens
when we develop.
>>>
>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements required to
> integrate this by default:
>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki
>>>
>>> Here's my +1
>>>
>>
>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive XWiki. Without
>> multi-wiki features, it still looks like a wiki, but if the homepage
>> changes from a "welcome to your wiki" page to a "here are your
>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki "becomes" something else
in the
>> eyes of our users. I used quotes since nothing changes on the inside,
>> the multiwiki feature has been there since the beginning, and the
single
>> wiki mode can still be used.
>
> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The plan is
that
> the home page doesn't change. All that
changes for a first time user
> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will have more entries (Add
Workspace
or Add
Wiki or both, Caty is still working on the proposal).
Proposals:
* Changes to the Menu
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu ** All documents. Currently we don't have a LT
that displays all docs from
all wikis
** Applications Index. I don't see what you would do in this one. Listing
all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure it's needed
** Note: Users index should list all global users
* I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that represents a
single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a menu entry to represent the
current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or "Portal" or
"Farm" or …,
i.e. something that represents the whole system and have only system-wide
actions in it.
What I like with "Home" is that users instinctively know that it's the top
end of the solution, ie the place to go back to to find your way in case of
doubt.
* "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as now +
Users Index for listing all
local users of the current wiki + Application Index for all apps of the
current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the current wiki
I think this debate has not been conducted to a satisfactory end yet. We
should indeed keep just one type of sub-site (either wiki or workspace). I
like the simplicity of A, where the user is asked to perform less choices.
By the way, instead of "Empty wiki", maybe we should call that template
"Default", again to help users make a choice if in doubt.
What's a bit complicated is that "Workspaces" could be seen as a flavor for
a whole wiki farm (including the main wiki and sub-wikis) with special
behavior, for instance allowing only global users.
Guillaume
Thanks
* Wiki/Workspace Creation
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
(please chose between Option A, B or C)
Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept of
workspaces and come back to the concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much simpler
for the user. What we call "workspace" can be seen as a configuration for a
wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only.
-Vincent
Thanks,
Caty
>
>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages and
>> disadvantages. On one hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki is a
>> collaborative platform, not just a wiki, so people that need
>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that XWiki
isn't
>> another boring wiki. On the other hand,
people that are just looking
for
>> a wiki that's nice to use and
"not-ugly", might be put off by yet
>> another layer of complexity, and might drop XWiki from their list of
>> candidates. In other words, it alienates even more the kind of users
>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly complex.
>>
>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the other? It would
be
>> in line with our vision of
"enterprise collaboration", but I still
think
>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate any
kind of users.
>>
>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask in the first
>> step of the distribution manager what kind of usage do we want. In the
>> meantime, we can still polish the pages that will go in the
"workspaces"
>> flavor.
>>
>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in 5.2, unless we have
really
>> good backwards compatibility and a flavor for a simple wiki for textual
>> collaboration.
>
> I hope the above allays your fears :)
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
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