16 May
2013
16 May
'13
6:36 p.m.
Hi,
I'm not (yet ;)) a XWiki developper but concerning this issue with windows,
I'd like to propose an other way of adressing it.
Several developpers in my company work on windows + eclipse and encounter
the same issue with bonita engine. They found a solution by closing all
projects they don't work on, using the corresponding packages from a maven
repository. It seems a bit painful at the beginning but with good
practices, it's ok (by the way, working with eclipse with all projects open
should not be simple). As far as I remember, when I was working on windows
and idea, I never had the issue. Do you know if the issue is only with
eclipse or append also when using maven in command line or using an other
IDE ?
Back to the main idea, instead of doing this huge refactoring which will
impact all XWIki developpers, the alternative may be for one guy to try
developping on windows with different IDEs and then provide a way of
working on each environment. The cost of such work may be a few hours to
find a solution and write some guidelines/good practices. The result for
new developpers would be more or less as learning new coding rules.
WDYT ?
2013/5/16 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
On May 16, 2013, at 6:09 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
important changes and devs need to be ok. So if one or a few devs want to
do this but some other don't for some valid reason then it's not going to
happen until we reach a decision.
this move but doing cowboy-coding without thinking about the consequences
and letting other fix your stuff by only doing half of the work isn't my
preferred style…
on this
I'd like that we do more evaluation. This means:
--
Frédéric Bouquet
Twitter/Github : bouquetf
http://www.espacedefouille.org/
On May 16, 2013, at 5:29 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu(a)xwiki.org> wrote:
> On 05/16/2013 10:54 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>
>> On May 16, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Thomas Mortagne <
thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>>>> I'm rather -0 ATM and very
close to -1 because:
>>>>
>>>> 1) I haven't heard from a windows dev for a long time, I don't
think
that happens that often
>>>
>>> And it's surely not going to improve...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) It's a *huge* change and it should definitely not be done
lightly. We would need to plan a period like 2 full days, all devs would
need to stop working on what they do and help out. For example all pages on
xwiki.org having some github links are going to be broken and will need
to be updated (that's probably around hunded of pages overall)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes it's a huge change, that's why it's a vote.
>>>
>>>> 3) Windows devs have a simple solution which is to use cygwin so
it's not a blocker
>>>
>>> It's not as trivial as you seems to think and it also mean that you
>>> simply can't use the standard git tools in the Windows world like the
>>> Github application or Tortoisegit without speaking or any EDI git
>>> integration... so not it really can't be seen as some obvious
>>> solution. And it's not like using Cygwin was some king of standard for
>>> Windows dev. "use cyggwin" is easy to say but the reality is that
a
>>> dev will try to clone XWiki repository with the git tool he is used to
>>> and will simply can't, period.
>>
>> What I'm saying is that I don't think it's worth the effort. By worth
I mean the ratio between the effort and problems it'll require from us vs
the # of windows dev not using cygwin that'll want to develop for the xwiki
project…
But this is why we have a democracy and not a dictatorship. If the
community considers it is worth the effort, and at least some devs are
willing to work on this, then I think it's their right to do this.
1) You should re-read the governance. It's a meritocracy, i.e we vote
2) It's all the devs that will bear the cost of maintaining the new
environment, no just the dev who's willing to do the initial work.
BTW none of us work on a windows environment and I think it's a bad idea
to
implement support for something that we never use. It can only lead to
something that gets broken frequently. To overcome this we'd need some
windows agent and this means supporting that agent and making sure it works
all the time (we tried in the past and failed for a very simple reason:
none of the devs use windows and thus we don't care).
It's not a good move to veto the will of the
community.
Again (in case you didn't understand) I'm ok on the principle of doing
We've had enough bad examples of the dev environment being broken for
week(s
not so long ago that it's normal to want to be careful...
Anyway, there are other reasons to make the
change, not just Windows
compatibility. It saves about 2 seconds each time a dev wants to go to a
directory from the command line. Going into one subdirectory means
having to press "x tab <right prefix of the submodule> tab". The first
two keys are superfluous since they're the same all the time. The deeper
the hierarchy, the longer the time it takes to go there. It adds up to
more than an hour wasted per year per dev, and I don't think it will
really take a whole month of every dev to do the migration. If everybody
contributes and we do a systematic effort, it could be done in an hour
with the right planning.
So to reiterate and to be constructive, before we start any actual work * see a list of windows coders who have expressed
a need (apart from
Florin who I know already) and who have a real will to
participate after
the move. Do we have at least one?
* that we list what needs to be done precisely.
I've identified some so
far:
** the git path changes
** modify all the xwiki.org pages linking to code
** git history, will we loose ability to see history of files?
** others?
** what happens to the JIRA links to commits in the Commits tab? Will they
still work?
Thanks
-Vincent
* to list who is ok to participate actively in
the move
* that we agree on a date so that it doesn't impact our planned roadmap
Thanks
-Vincent
>> We're going to loose at least a month before we've finished that
migration completely and I'm really worried about the toll it'll have on
our releases...
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> PS: With the same group effort we could release a first version of the
new
model for example ;)
>>
>
> --
> Sergiu Dumitriu
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