29 Sep
2014
29 Sep
'14
3:14 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
Hi Caty,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
With this logic, why do we have the 'Edit Class' in the same 'Edit'
menu?
We should be able to edit the Class just from the page that lists the
existing classes.
The logic is that I want to be able to perform RAPIDLY an action, without
needing to go on a particular page.
Wikis/Space/Pages are BASIC entities in XWiki, is not something optional or
rarely used.
Thanks,
Caty
Hi,
So I think is a good idea to provide the ability to create
wikis/spaces/page on their Indexes pages. In the case of Wiki Manager
this
was removed in
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9490 but if we re-add
it
we could standardize the creation of entities in
their context (just like
we do it on ColorThemes WebHome or on on Blog.WebHome).
Exactly :-) I'm +1 for this.
But even if we make this improvement, I still
would want to have the
ability to create wikis/spaces/pages in the Add menu.
As I've said before, I don't agree with this. Though I might be ok to keep
the "Add space" action in there, with the improvements suggested by Edy, I
strongly believe that the "Create new wiki" feature shouldn't be there.
It's an infrequent action with strong consequences. It should be available
as a tool from the main wiki, but definitely not from every page. Again,
how often does any user create a new wiki? Even for a large organization,
it will be mostly admins, and it will happen maybe a couple times a week
after XWiki is launched internally.
So in the end we have an action that is performed by *very few people, a
handful of times*, and we put it on *every single page in the main wiki and
all sub-wikis*. I'm afraid that keeping all 3 actions in the same button is
consistency for consistency's sake, but it just doesn't match XWiki users'
behavior, nor their expectations.
Besides consistency, what is the rationale for having all 3 actions in one
place? How do you back up your reasoning with actual user behavior? In your
personal experience, how often do you use the "create wiki" button in its
current location?
IMO is not one way or the other (and I don't agree
with the duplication
the
they
for
ahead
places,
value
consistent
new
> > > look a
> > > > > lot - well done guys!
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a quick remark that is related to the new location of
the
http://
new
> > > wiki
> > > > is
> > > > > much much bigger and less frequent than creating a new page,
the
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argument). One way of creating entries (the Add
menu way) is more
generic,
while the other way (contextual form placement on
the Homepages/Indexes)
is
specific to the entity type.
I don't mind having more that one button for an action in specific cases.
But I don't think the "Create wiki" action is one of those cases.
Thanks,
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <
guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Eduard Moraru <
enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Guillaume,
> > >
> > > I have started a new discussion [1] on the topic of the new
location
of
makes
structure
the
> Add menu in Flamingo which is, IMO, the real problem here.
>
I'll answer on this thread.
However, I stand by my point that creating a wiki or a space are
different
> actions compared from adding a new page and as thus should be treated
> differently.
>
> Regarding your actual proposal, I`d be inclined to -1 it, as IMO it > > basic CRUD operations on the wiki model
harder to perform (i.e.
harder
> to
> > > find), and what we`d like to do is help people create content and
> > > structure, not the other way around.
> > >
> >
> > I agree with the logic but I'm not sure I'm 100% in line with the
> > conclusion. As you said, the goal is to help users create and > > their content.
> >
> > Right now, when looking at existing installs, I often see cases where
> users
> > created several spaces with similar names (which doesn't really help
> > structure information). This is mainly because they didn't know that
a
> > space with a similar name already
existed. Similarly, you wouldn't
want
>
someone to create a "Communication" wiki if the
"MarketingCommunication"
> > wiki already exists.
> >
>
> What I read from your example above is that we can improve the create
> page/space/wiki UIs to have a section that does a kind of suggest to > user based on the name of the new entry he
wants to create. We could
have
> something like "The
pages/spaces/wikis/etc. above already exist. Are
you
sure you
want to create a new <userEnteredEntityName>
page/space/wiki/etc.
instead of using one of the above?"
We could go as far as to force the user to check a checkbox before the
"Create" button becomes enabled/clickable. This could either be a
configuration option, based on the desire/intent/wishes of the admin of
that wiki/space.
With a bit of effort, this could be done consistently for the entire
"/create/" action and its plugged-in template providers.
>
> This is why I'm proposing to place "Create" buttons in context. I see
at
> least 3 places where this could be useful:
>
> - "Create wiki" button on http://
<server>/xwiki/bin/view/WikiManager/
> > - "Create space" button on hypothetical
> > http://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/Main/SpacesIndex
> > (similar to what we already have on the Dashboard)
> > - "Create user" button on http://<server>
> > /xwiki/bin/view/Main/UserDirectory
> >
> > So from my point of view, by putting those buttons on those pages would actually be easier to find and understand for
end-users.
This will not solve anything if the user is already too lazy to search existing entries before creating one. The one he
wishes to create might
be
> on the second page of the livetable and the lazy user will just go and
create the similar entry.
For this to be relatively effective in reducing duplication, we would
have
to implement something on the lines of what I
have described above with
the
"reuse sugestion".
I`m not particularly against this approach (of adding create options in
the
> list), since we were already doing this at some point and in some but I`m
still -1 for scattering the create logic in various locations
instead of using the centralized "Add" menu. If we don`t, we will have
99999 pages all inside the Main space and that's it. How`s that for a
wiki
> gardening nightmare? :)
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Guillaume
> >
> > Thanks,
> > > Eduard
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/jqbcj4p4ryc56sms
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > We improved the things a bit by implementing
> > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10928
> > > > Now users can more rapidly create pages by using the implicit of
> > > 'Add'.
> > >
> > > Having all the option (Create Wiki, Create Space, Create Page) in
the
>
menu
> > is important IMO since you can create spaces (and wikis) from
anywhere
in
> > the wiki. You don't need to be in a certain location to do this
action.
> > >
> > > I agree about having a Space Index of some sort and have a way
> > of localizing/navigating Wikis/Spaces/Pages. Something similar to
this
> idea
> > was the Explorer proposal
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/ExplorerApp
> >
> > Another related issue to this subject is
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9440, but again I think
XWIKI-10928
> > > <http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10928> improved the problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <
> guillaume(a)xwiki.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Devs,
> > > >
> > > > I'm currently testing XE 6.2, it's a great release, I love
the > >
"Create"
> > > > button. I think we should move the "create wiki" and
"create
space"
> > > options
> > > > from where they are located now.
> > > >
> > > > The "Create wiki" button could be moved under the list of
wikis
on
this
> > > page: http://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/WikiManager/
> > >
> > > We would probably need a similar "space index" page with the
"Create
> > > space"
> > > > button there, a bit like what we have on the dashboard now: > >
> <server>/xwiki/bin/view/Dashboard/
> > >
> > > The objective being that when doing those create actions, they
would
> be
> > > > done with the context of the wikis / spaces that already exist.
> > > >
> > > > What is also a bit confusing for users is that since creating a
> > action
> > > > > should not be available from every single page.
> > > > >
> > > > > This issue has become much more salient than before to me
because
of
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> the
> > > new location of the "Create" button. What's your opinion
about
this?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Guillaume
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