23 Nov
2016
23 Nov
'16
10:02 a.m.
I kind of like this idea because it preserves the email interface for
people who want that but at the same time it allows people to interact
with it as if it were a forum.
On 23/11/16 01:27, Julio Brum wrote:
Hi,
Would not it be interesting to use google groups? For example, the Django
Project uses google groups for your mailing list.
https://www.djangoproject.com/community/
Julio
2016-11-22 13:01 GMT-02:00 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
Yes and that’s why XWiki is great! You can create custom small apps in it
easily for all your needs.
Several of those apps are "anti-wiki” concept BTW (such as File Manager
app, Forum app, etc) since they scatter information instead of aggregating
them and allowing easy edit/save (the wiki concept).
So yes, *theoretically*, we could imagine XWiki implementing the best
possible CI tool, best Forum tool, best Chat tool, best Task management
tool, etc.
In practice it’s unlikely to happen because you’ll find companies
dedicated to providing solutions for those (it’s likely that JIRA will
always be a better *generic* issue tracker than the Task application in
xwiki just to give one example). Another example is WYSIWYG. We were
developing ours till we switched to CK because it’s hard to compete with
someone else making a living developing a specific tool.
But it doesn’t matter because:
1) Not everyone need the best possible tool. If the needs are not very
high it can be more than enough to have a simple tool doing what you need.
2) XWiki can provide tools that can be better adapted/customized to
specific needs and thus be better than generic best of breed tools in some
cases.
Personally I’d love to have a Forum app in XWiki that does what
stackoverflow does for example. The reality is that the current forum app
will still need a lot of time to be invested in it to reach the same level
of features.
Does the xwiki dev team have the time to develop that vs using an existing
forum app that does the job and more? My personal opinion is no, we should
spend the time we have in polishing XWiki, making it the best possible wiki
platform to develop apps on top of it.
Could we use the Forum app as it is for our needs? Maybe. This is why I
said you/we should start listing the use cases we need solved since we
won’t get anywhere without being more precise in term of our needs. Same if
you want to replace JIRA by something else (Github issues for example).
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On 22 Nov 2016, at 15:40, Guillaume Delhumeau
<
guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
2016-11-22 15:25 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
>
>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 15:03, Guillaume Delhumeau <
> guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>>
>> 2016-11-22 14:39 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
>>
>>>
>>>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 14:18, Guillaume Delhumeau <
>>> guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 2016-11-22 13:16 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 12:13, Guillaume Delhumeau <
>>>>> guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everybody.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today I would like to speak about an issue that annoys me for
years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are working on a tool whose one of the objectives is to stop
>>>>> scattering
>>>>>> information in multiple places. It's even the main argument
explained
>>> in
>>>>>> the video integrated on the home page of XWiki:
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QTWrZ7OfzI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But on the other hand, we, developers of XWiki, do the opposite
in
>>>>>> practice. We discuss on mailing lists that are archived on
Markmail,
> we
>>>>>> report issues on Jira and we do investigations on
design.xwiki.org
,
>>> and
>>>>> I
>>>>>> don't even count Github.
>>>>>
>>>>> Honestly I don’t see the relationship between the tool we develop
and
>>> how
>>>>> it’s developed. These are completely separate things!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We develop a tool that centralize information and we don't use it to
>>>> centralize our own informations, except documentation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Using a car is pretty easy but creating one is hard. That’s normal
and
>>>>> expected :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes but if you also create a tool to help you creating a car and you
>>> don't
>>>> use it yourself,
>>>
>>> XWiki is not a tool to help develop software. It can be used for some
>>> parts of the software development process (the documentation part, the
>>> requirements part, etc). But for example it won’t help you store your
>>> sources files and it won’t help you develop your Java Code (your IDE
> will
>>> though).
>>>
>>
>> I completely agree and there is no discord on this.
>>
>> But I still believe that if we promote our tool as a better alternative
> for
>> emails and we keep sending brainstorm, votes, news, we're not giving a
>> consistent signal.
>
> I’m not sure I agree that a wiki (xwiki or any wiki) should replace
email.
I see a wiki as a way to extract pure knowledge from their temporary
places (irc, mailing lists, etc) into a place where it can be aggregated
and augmented, representing the sum of knowledge on a topic.
This is the upcoming knowledge-base flavor. But I have always considered
XWiki to be more than that. We have put a lot of effort to create:
- Application Within Minutes (it makes me thing about Microsoft Access)
- File Manager Application (there is Cloud solutions for that)
- XPoll Application
- Task Manager Application
- Ideas Application
and so on… Anyway I've read (partially) the other
threads about this subject and I
understand the counter-arguments now. I don't fully agree but I can
understand.
I haven’t read them again so I don’t know where I stand at this point :)
But I’m open to discuss better solution to replace one or several mailing
lists. However starting the discussion on saying that a wiki is better than
lists or lists are better than wiki will not get us far IMO.
A design page on design.xwiki.org with a table listing the use cases we
need/want, the various alternatives and the pros/cons could help progress
on this topic.
Let’s see what others think.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Guillaume
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