Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposals] Menu improvements when Workspaces activated

Hi guys, "Users Directory" or "Users Index" sounds awkward to me. If it was a List it would be "User List" not "Users List" unless the List happened to belong to a person called "User". Then I feel like these names are kind of a lingual tarpit because trying to be descriptive runs you up against the limitations of the language. Directory is a much used term because of Unix and a "User Directory" sounds a whole lot like the user's home directory. If the User listing is there for *management* of users then I would recommend "User Management" which is well understood to be about management of all users, not a thing belonging to a specific one.

"Document Index" is well descriptive in my opinion.

For wikis I'm a bit torn, like users they have attributes and possessions. "Wiki Index" might be the index (of documents) for *this* wiki. When accessing the wiki list the admin probably has management intentions so "Wiki Management" sounds plausible but in this case, he could be talking about management of the current wiki. I think the best fit here is "SubWiki Administration" because it clearly states that it's about (one or more) SubWikis and I just happen to think Administration is a nice word in this case because it makes one think of operations which are more technical/powerful than those comprising management.

So sorry to throw in yet another proposal but I think the best is: ["Document Index", "User Management", "SubWiki Administration"] Thanks, Caleb On 09/19/2013 01:08 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau wrote: > I let you decide for next Monday. We should release the RC 1. I won't be > there tomorow. > > Thanks, > Louis-Marie > > > 2013/9/19 Vincent Massol &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt; > >> >> On Sep 19, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; >> wrote: >> >>> yes, the 'Index' was proposed in order to have consistency between the >>> entries: 'Documents Index', 'Users Index', 'Applications Index', 'Wikis >>> Index', etc. (Obs. the Applications Index is not yet implemented, but the >>> entry should provide a livetable that allows filtering for entries of a >>> certain type: documents, users, wikis, etc.) >>> >>> the alternative was to have 'Documents Directory', 'Users Directory', >>> 'Applications Directory', 'Wikis Directory'. >>> >>> I think that the 'Index' version is much shorter than the 'Directory', >>> while having a more generic meaning. Alternatives: 'List', etc. >>> >>> Just for the record, the proposal uses the "plural" form of the entities. >>> It would be great if an english speaker could give its opinion on the >>> correct form. >> >> I'd say singular form is better than plural but then I'm not a native >> English speaker ;) >> >> Regarding Index vs Directory, I don't know. >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >>> Thanks, >>> Caty >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < >>> gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> 2013/9/19 Ludovic Dubost &lt;ludovic(a)xwiki.com&gt; >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> This looks good. I have a comment though on the "User index". I'm sorry >>>> if >>>>> this was already discussed. >>>>> >>>>> My first reaction was that it's not really telling me what it is. I >>>> suppose >>>>> it's the "User Directory". Maybe my english is wrong, but why not just >>>>> calling it "User Directory" like it is right now. >>>>> >>>>> I suppose the reason is to have "Document Index" followed by "User >>>> Index", >>>>> but I don't think it's the same thing. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, the idea was to have a consistency between names in the menu. Is >> that >>>> true Caty? >>>> >>>> But my english is not good enough to say if it is correct or not... >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ludovic >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/9/18 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau &lt;gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; >>>>> >>>>>> You can see some screenshots in the JIRA: >>>>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9475 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> LM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2013/9/18 Fabio Mancinelli &lt;fabio.mancinelli(a)xwiki.com&gt; >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau >>>>>>> &lt;gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>>> Indeed, the proposal A was based on >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/PortalMenuinstead >>>>>>>> of >>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Then I suggest to call your proposal: E. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let me recap: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Proposal A : Tiny "Home menu". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Proposal B : XWiki right side menu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Proposal C : Wiki crowded menu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Proposal D : Add a menu on the top-left logo. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Proposal E : The complete "Home menu" proposed by Caty. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I like both B and E. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I liked E because it keeps the left area the same. Since all the >>>> wikis >>>>>>> are equal, so it should be the area for manipulating it. But since >>>> the >>>>>>> main wiki is "more equal" than the others, it's good to show it. I >>>>>>> understand the problem of E but I cannot think of another place where >>>>>>> to put this menu. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I don't like of E is just the "home" label. >>>>>>> Home will become too overloaded. Every wiki has a home, now with that >>>>>>> menu there will be a home which is the home of the main wiki. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot think of a better alternative besides "Main" that suffers of >>>>>>> the same problem (since every wiki has a Main space). >>>>>>> Maybe calling it "XWiki" can really be a possible solution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Fabio >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About E: >>>>>>>> Some issues IMHO: >>>>>>>> - The amount of menus is not the same when you are in the home wiki >>>>> and >>>>>>>> when you are in the subwiki. >>>>>>>> - Do we really need to have a direct access to the documents, the >>>>> users >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the applications of the home wiki when you are in the subwiki? >>>> Can't >>>>> it >>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> confusing? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2013/9/12 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Vincent Massol < >>>> vincent(a)massol.net >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You forgot one proposal which I like: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> == Proposal D == >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * Generalize the XWiki home (the logo at the top left) >>>>>>>>>> * When you click on the logo you get to the home of the current >>>>> wiki >>>>>>>>>> * The proposal is about generalizing that feature to allow >>>>>> navigating >>>>>>>>>> either to the wiki home, to the main wiki or to the list of >>>> other >>>>>>> wikis >>>>>>>>>> * It could be done by showing a menu arrow when the mouse hover >>>>> over >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> logo and when the mouse moves over the arrow, show a menu with >>>>> first >>>>>>>>> entry >>>>>>>>>> = "Main Wiki" (or "Home Wiki" if you prefer) and a second entry >>>>> with >>>>>>>>> "Wiki >>>>>>>>>> Index" for example. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What I like with this is that the user is already used to use >>>> the >>>>>>> logo as >>>>>>>>>> a way to navigate to the home of wiki. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau < >>>>>>>>>> gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi developers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday evening, after trying to fix all issues that integrate >>>>>>>>> Workspace >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> XE made, I had a bit of time to work on this JIRA: >>>>>>>>>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9341 "Menu improvements >>>> when >>>>>>>>>> Workspaces >>>>>>>>>>> activated". >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The idea was to quickly implement the Caty's proposal for M2 >>>>>> (which >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> scheduled for the day after). I made it and I sent a pull >>>>>> request. I >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> also sent a mail to Vincent to show him my work. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> == Proposal A == >>>>>>>>>>> There is some screenshots (Proposal A): >>>>>>>>>>> Logged as admin: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png >>>>>>>>>>> Not logged as admin: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu-non-admi… >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You can get it from this commit: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/8c1c1bac2cde30f9024525e50249… >>>>>>>>>>> (except that I have changed the wiki icon for this screenshot) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So I just want to link again the 'Home Menu' full proposal >>>>>>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In your screenshot is: >>>>>>>>> * Home >>>>>>>>> ** Administer Main Wiki >>>>>>>>> ** Wiki Directory >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What it was proposed: >>>>>>>>> * Home >>>>>>>>> ** Administration >>>>>>>>> ** Wikis Index >>>>>>>>> ** .... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM… >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM… >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Administer Main Wiki" was proposed as: >>>>>>>>> - "Administration" >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> - "Administer Home" / "Administrate Home" >>>>>>>>> depending if you were located in Home or in the (sub)wiki. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We though this menu was confusing and not consistent with the >>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>> menus: >>>>>>>>>>> - Why do we have a link to the *main wiki* administration when >>>>> we >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> (sub)wiki? Does it make sense? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As an administrator I think it has sense to be able to >>>> administrate >>>>>> both >>>>>>>>> the current (sub)wiki you are visiting and also the home >>>> (mainwiki). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - Why do we have the main wiki (called Home) in the left of >>>> the >>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>> wiki, space and page? The fact that there is actually a "main" >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>> "sub" wikis is only due to the implementation. We could >>>> imagine, >>>>>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> future, a new implementation where there is no distinction >>>>> between >>>>>>>>> "main" >>>>>>>>>>> and "sub", but where we have an independent "system" that >>>> allows >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> users >>>>>>>>>>> to create and manage their wikis. Then, it seems better to >>>> call >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> menu >>>>>>>>>>> "System" or "XWiki". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The "main" and "sub" is transformed in "home" and "wiki". The menu >>>>>>> displays >>>>>>>>> the hierarchy: Home > Wiki > Space > Page and is also consistent >>>>> with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> way our cascading works for our preferences (rights, etc.) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - When we don't have the admin right on the main wiki, we only >>>>> have >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> single item in this menu, meanwhile wiki, space and page has >>>>> more >>>>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>>>>> It does not look good. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the proposal there is >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM… >>>>>>>>> Although this is not currently implemented, the idea is that we >>>>> could >>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> list for example the "Users Index" a.k.a the "User Directory" >>>>>>> (especially >>>>>>>>> since workspaces have only global users and the directory is >>>> located >>>>>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> main wiki). In the proposal I've used " *** Index" in order to >>>> have >>>>> a >>>>>>>>> consistency between the index/directory applications naming. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So the idea is that even if now there is only one entry in the >>>>>> submenu, >>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> could have more entries (if they are related to the Home >>>>> (mainwiki)). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - If you are in the main wiki, you have "Administer main wiki" >>>>>>> twice: >>>>>>>>>> once >>>>>>>>>>> in the Home menu, once in the Wiki menu. >>>>>>>>>>> - The left menu has too many items. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are on the main wiki, the menu changes from >>>>>>>>> * Menu in the (sub)wiki >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM… >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> * Menu in the Home (mainwiki) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM… >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The left menu contains items related to 'spatial organization of >>>>>>> content' >>>>>>>>> inside XWiki (wikis, spaces, pages) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> == Proposal B == >>>>>>>>>>> Vincent thought it was not good enough to be integrated in >>>>> 5.2M2, >>>>>>> so we >>>>>>>>>>> started to iterate until having this proposal: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png(pro… >>>>>>>>>>> B). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Why putting this menu to the right side? It's because, on the >>>>> left >>>>>>>>> side, >>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> have Wiki/Space/Page, where you have actions that you can >>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>> achieve >>>>>>>>>>> on these Wiki, Space and Page. Actions like "Administer", >>>>> "Delete" >>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> "Rename". The XWiki menu does not provide actions like that, >>>> it >>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> provides some shortcuts to navigate thought the wikis. It's >>>>> more a >>>>>>>>>> "System" >>>>>>>>>>> menu, like the Profile menu, or the Register action. That's >>>> why >>>>> we >>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> there. Moreover, it make the left menu smaller, which is less >>>>>>>>> confusing. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't like this proposal because is breaking the content >>>>>> organization >>>>>>>>> hierarchy: home > wiki > space > page. >>>>>>>>> You can consider our current menu to be composed of "Content || >>>>> User". >>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> "Content" part allows you to create new content and to see your >>>>>>> location in >>>>>>>>> the content hierarchy. The right menu is dedicated to User related >>>>>>> actions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also I don't like that it uses the name XWiki. Users want to >>>>> customize >>>>>>>>> their instance and not even show it's running on XWiki, making it >>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> own. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> == Proposal C == >>>>>>>>>>> We had also this idea: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png(proposal… >>>>>>>>>>> But we didn't like it, because the "Wiki Directory" and the >>>>> "Main >>>>>>> Wiki" >>>>>>>>>>> link are not related to the current wiki, meanwhile actions >>>> like >>>>>>>>>>> "Administer", "Index" or "Delete" are. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Crowded and serves as a double function. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> After having created the proposal B, I asked Vincent: "What >>>>>> should I >>>>>>>>> do? >>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>>> I commit it, without asking to the community?". He said yes, >>>>>>> because he >>>>>>>>>>> wanted to have something to show to the community that can >>>> still >>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> changed >>>>>>>>>>> for the RC1, and he applied the pull request. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So, let me list again the 3 proposals we have: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A - "Home" menu (Caty's proposal): >>>>>>>>>>> Current implementation: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png >>>>>>>>>>> Mockup with the new skin: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/PortalMenu/Men… >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> B - "XWiki" right menu: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> C - Add actions to the "Wiki" menu: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I propose to start a thread where you can all give your >>>> opinion, >>>>>>>>>> regarding >>>>>>>>>>> one of these proposals, and you can also bring new ideas. We >>>>> must >>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> consensus for the RC1! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 0 for proposal A (the left menu is too heavy). >>>>>>>>>>> +0 for proposal B (not perfect IMHO). >>>>>>>>>>> -1 for proposal C. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, my vote goes to Ver. A, but the way it was proposed: >>>>>>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (Wiki / (sub)wiki) >>>>>>>>> * Home >>>>>>>>> ** Administration >>>>>>>>> ** --- >>>>>>>>> ** Wikis Index/Directory >>>>>>>>> ** Documents Index >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (Home/mainwiki) >>>>>>>>> * Home >>>>>>>>> ** Watch Home >>>>>>>>> ** Administer Home >>>>>>>>> ** --- >>>>>>>>> ** Wikis Index >>>>>>>>> ** Documents Index >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Caty