11 Jun
2010
11 Jun
'10
3:22 p.m.
On Jun 11, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:46, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
This is my last try and if I'm not able to make my point come across I'll wait for
others to comment on this:
Take the "edit right" for example. You say it's a basic right. It's not
more basic from a user POV than a "forum edit right". They are at the same
level. The only difference is that one is "standard" while the other is an
"extension".
Thanks
-Vincent
On Jun 11, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
for
Probably, since for me the separation is simple. Basic rights are those we
have already, View, Comment, Edit, Delete, Admin, and no more (Programming
is questionable). On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 09:33, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>
> On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 22:50, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Caty and all,
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> For a while we've been discussing how the new Rights Management
UI
is
>>> gonna
>>>>> look like. After 5 prototype versions, we may have reached a
> conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please take a look at:
>>>>> *Prototype*
>>>>>
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Rights51Space
>>>>> *Explanations*
>>>>>
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/RightsProposal
>>>>>
>>>>> Please cast your vote if this is gonna be the final Rights
>>> representation,
>>>>> so that we may start the implementation.
>>>>> my +1
>>>>> Any feedback is welcomed and we can still added improvements to this
>>>>> version.
>>>>>
>>>>> The current version is a collaborative work done by me, Denis
> Gervalle,
>>>>> Raluca Stavro, Alex Busenius, Roman Muntyanu and many others
> (Guillaume,
>>>>> Sergiu, Vincent, Thomas). Thanks everyone for participating in the
>>> process.
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> I like it.
>>>>
>>>> One question: Why does it say on Rights51Space for the view right
that
>>> "Allowed only for evalica"
when view right is also allowed for all
users
> in
>>> the Admin group?
>>>
>>> Other questions:
>>>
>>> * Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be
"Users and
>>> Groups"?
>>>
>>
>> Well groups are also users at the end, but why not...
>
> The reason I mention this is because the first column says type and then
> you have "users" and "groups" and not just "users".
It's for consistency
and
> I think from a user POV they're both
different things.
>
>>> * Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"? For me
it's
> not
>>> related to advanced or not advanced. It's just a folded view and a
full
>>> view. A right contributed by some
extension might be as important as
one
> of
>>> the default rights.
>>>
>>
>> Well, this is a point of view. The basic interface allow managing
commons
>> rights, and will probably be the only
view allowed for users that have
> not
>> their profile set to "Advanced" (like what is done for the edit menu,
> which
>> is only shown to advanced users)
>
> Yes this is exactly what I think is wrong.
>
> Whoever has the right to modify rights should see all rights. There
> shouldn't be a notion of advanced or not because additional rights are
*not*
> advanced stuff. Actually to give an example,
the programming right
itself
could be
considered advanced while a new right such as "ability to post
messages in a forum" would be a basic right.
Our concern is simplicity, like the simplification done on the edit menu,
that became a simple button, preventing basic user to see objects,
classes,... Here, the goal is the same, provide a simplified interface the very basic rights that concern everyone and
that could be understand
by
all.
Additionnal rights will be added by additional component, so
these additional rights will not be uniform across all wikis, and user
with
basic knowledge of wikis will not be aware of all
those rights. These are
not the basic rights you found on any wikis, and anyone understand
immediately. So, these are obviously advanced in my POV. ie: "Ability to
post a message in a forum" is for admin, not for a basic user editing a
page.
Please, also note that changing a user from basic to advanced is in the
user
profile a task that a user with edit write on
himself could do. And that
even basic user may see current advanced rights status in a tooltips when
sets. So if a basic user understand its need of more advanced option, he
could go for advanced.
Also note that current whoever could modify rights is whoever has edit
right. So many basic user could be in a situation that allows editing
rights. But currently, only advanced user has the menu option to access
this
on a page. So, in practice, with the current
skin, nobody will see the
basic
only interface.
Finally, if you like Caty proposal of using Extended instead of Advanced,
we
can but that linking this to the advanced status
of a user will be less
clear. But if you dislike my ideas, I am open to drop it, this was just a
proposal :)
At this stage I don't like too much linking to the advanced status since it
means some rights are simple and some are advanced and choosing which are
simple and which are advanced is really difficult and depend completely on
the use case at hand (see my example with the right to post to a forum for
ex - I guess you could argue that the forum app would need to offer an admin
UI that would allow to easily modify the rights for it but then there
wouldn't be a single UI interface for changing the rights).
But maybe I misunderstood something.
Their meaning are obvious, these are the minimal
requirement for viewing, commenting, editing and deleting documents on any
secured wikis. So these does not require any experience to be used,
especially at the page level, and these will be common on all XWiki
instances. Since we are designing a better Rights UI, I hope that we will be
able to show it to users with less technical knowledge. This is for me the
goal behind having a basic interface for these rights and user, appart from
showing a clear resume of common rights.
Denis
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>>
>> Denis
>>
>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> Right interface is complex, but access to it is also possible for
> simple
>>>> editors not only for admins. Those only need to manage read/write
> access
>>> to
>>>> their page, and those will not understand the ins and outs of the
>>> extended
>>>> rights. This is mainly why we see this as 2 different view of the same
>>>> stuff: a basic view, and an advance view.
>>>> You have a similar behavior in the right management interface of
> Windows
>>>> ACLs.
>>>> Note that in basic view, you have a summary icon (currently a lock, but
>>> this
>>>> should be improved) that shows if there is some advanced rights locally
>>> set.
>>>> The tooltips for this icon list the rights locally set and their
>>> allowance,
>>>> but does not allow changing them (in the sample, the allowance is not
>>> shown,
>>>> this is probably a mistake)
>>>>
>>>> Denis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> -Vincent
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Caty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at
> [Proposal]
>>>>>>> Rights Management UI
http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey