18 Sep
2015
18 Sep
'15
noon
On 18 Sep 2015 at 11:51:21, Marius Dumitru Florea
(mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com)) wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:34 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
wrote:
I guess it depends how you consider Children. If you consider it to mean Children,
grand-children, grand-grand-children, etc and use it as a general means, I guess it’s
fine. I don’t know if this is acceptable in English or not. What I know is that if you say
“Enfants” in French it can mean either immediate Children or all the children in the
hierarchy (grand-children, grand-grand-children).
Said differently, I have the feeling it’s better to have a More Actions menu entry named
“Children” than having one named “Descendants” because I feel Children is a term more
used.
Thanks
-Vincent
On 18 Sep 2015 at 11:27:33, Marius Dumitru Florea
(mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com)) wrote:
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:10 PM,
vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
I think right now it also shows A but this could be fixed.
On 17 Sep 2015 at 13:32:28, Eduard Moraru
(enygma2002@gmail.com(mailto:enygma2002@gmail.com)) wrote:
> With the introduction of Nested Spaces / Nested Documents, we find
> ourselves having to expand our terminology to accommodate the tree-like
> structure of spaces/documents that we are managing.
>
> IMO, we have started going in the wrong direction with using standard tree
> terminology directly in XWiki's UI, introducing new terms that simple users
> could be easily confused by or overwhelmed (this adding to the already
> existing ones).
>
> The specific issue I have in mind is how do we refer child entities for
> each concept (wiki, space, page) and how does this scale when the hierarchy
> increases.
>
> What I propose is that we Keep It SSimple (*™*) :) and just use the "sub"
> prefix for the concept at hand.
>
> Examples:
> * wiki -> subwiki (here we can continue using "wiki", as discussed
> previously [1], since we don`t actually support nested wikis yet, but if
> "subwiki" is used in a conversation it still makes perfect sense)
> * space -> subspace [2]
> * page -> subpage [3]
>
> The problem with the term "child", as pointed out by Marius in an offline
> chat, has indeed the issue that it can only be applied correctly for first
> level descendants, after which it becomes inaccurate, since starting with
> the second level the term "descendant" is more appropriate.
I’m not sure about this. I think Children could
be used generically to mean any level of Children but would need to be checked.
If you have A.B.C:
* the "Children" viewer (live table) will show "B, C" for A * the "Siblings" viewer (live table)
will show only "B" (or nothing?) for B
There’s no sibling for C in your definition.
Yes, I know what siblings are :) but I said "for B" not "for C".
If you had:
A.B.C
A.B.D
A.E
Then the sibling for A.B.C would be A.B.D. Thus if you’re on A.B.C and ask for Sibling
you’ll see D in the LT.
If you’re on A.B and ask for siblings you’ll see
only E (and not E, C, D since C and D are not siblings of A.B).
So you don't think that the statement
"E and C are both children of A but they are not siblings because they
don't have he same parent"
is confusing? > Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> So B and C are both children of A but are not siblings. That can be
>> confusing. You need the tree view to see the actual hierarchy.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marius
>>
>> >>
>> >> All of this becomes unnecessarily complicated and, IMO, we should
avoid
>> >> dealing with it by using the "sub" prefix which is much
easier to grasp and
>> >> accept.
>> >>
>> >> On a similar note, I also find the term "nested" to be a bit
unnecessarily
>> >> complicated, specially for non-technical and non-english native users.
>> >>
>> >> WDYT?
>> >
>> > I don’t like the “Sub" terminology because it’s incomplete. It’s not
complete because you still need words for Parents, Siblings, Root, etc.
>> >
>> > I'd much prefer to use a standard Tree terminology:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_(data_structure)#Terminologies_used_in_T…
>> >
>> > BTW Terminal Page could be replaced by Leaf Page if we wanted too but maybe
that’s too technical?
>> >
>> > I’d be ok to replace subwiki by Child Wiki/Children Wikis to be
consistent.
>> >
>> > So overall I find Child/Children, Parent, and Siblings very easy to
understand by any simple user. I find that using Sub, Parent, Siblings is not better (and
it would certainly not replace Sibling).
>> >
>> > WDYT?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Eduard
>> >>
>> >> ----------
>> >> [1] http://markmail.org/message/cehvpds5qmljq5f7
>> >> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace
>> >> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpage
>> >