1 Aug
2013
1 Aug
'13
6:46 p.m.
I vote for D (not B anymore).
2013/8/1 Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
Hi,
I like this option. Waiting for further agreement on the sister thread
about workspaces, I think this is a good solution for XE 5.2.
The downside is that we lose a bit of simplicity, but it's a tough topic.
Guillaume
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
ensure
them
homepage
is
the
> colibri skin, right?
> >
> > * "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following
since
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
all
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
simpler
looking
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On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>
> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>
> > Hi Caty,
> >
> > See below.
> >
> > On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol <
vincent(a)massol.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu(a)xwiki.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> >>>>> Hi devs,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2 some days
ago,
> there's
> >>> this time:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "
> >>>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home page - Caty
+
> >>> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but he's
> going to
> >>> work full time on XWiki development and especially on UI aspects
from
now
>>> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need you! :)
>>>>> "
>>>>>
>>>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having
Workspaces
> >>> integrated in the default XAR. Thus I'm sending this email to
we all
wikis/solutions
>> agree about this.
>>>>
>>>> The rationale is:
>>>>
>>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki (standalone
>> version or install the default XAR) they get to see the power of
XWiki.
One
>>> of the very important differentiator of XWiki vs other is
>>> our multi-tenancy feature and most of people downloading and
installing
> >>> XWiki don't see it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the
committers
> mostly
> >>> polish the default which doesn't include those. The UIs of
XEM/Wiki
> Manager
> >>> need polishing. Having them in default will ensure that we take > into
> >>> account and make them first class citizens when we develop.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements required
to
> >>> integrate this by default:
> >>>>>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's my +1
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive XWiki.
Without
> >>>> multi-wiki features, it still looks like a wiki, but if the > >>>> changes from a
"welcome to your wiki" page to a "here are your
> >>>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki "becomes"
something else
in
the
>>>> eyes of our users. I used quotes since nothing changes on the
inside,
> >>>> the multiwiki feature has been there since the beginning, and the
> single
> >>>> wiki mode can still be used.
> >>>
> >>> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The plan
> that
> >>> the home page doesn't change. All that changes for a first time
user
>> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will
have more entries (Add
Workspace
>>> or Add Wiki or both, Caty is still working on the proposal).
>>>
>>
>> Proposals:
>>
>> * Changes to the Menu
>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu
>
> * "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots which
> we don't have any UI for them:
> > ** Administration. I don't even know what it means at the global
> portal/system level
> > ** All documents. Currently we don't have a LT that displays all docs
> from all wikis
> > ** Applications Index. I don't see what you would do in this one.
> Listing all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure it's
needed
> > ** Note: Users index should list all
global users
> > * I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that
represents
a
system-wide
single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a
menu entry to represent
the
> current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or "Portal" or
"Farm" or …,
> i.e. something that represents the whole system and have only > actions in it.
>
> After more thoughts I think it's ok for a first version to have the new
> "Home" menu entry to represent the main wiki. However all subwikis menu
> entries should have the same entries except for "Wiki Index" which
should
> only be in "Home".
>
> In the future though, in the new model, we'll have a notion of System
> (farm of wikis) and maybe we'll implement it differently than in a
wiki.
But we
can take care of this at that time… ;)
Right now the more important for me is to agree that we have only 1
concept: the notion of "Wiki" and to replace the notion of
"Workspace"
just
by a checkbox in the wiki creation wizard:
"Allow creating local users" (which is unchecked by default).
I've created the 'Option D' proposal
- used 'subwiki' term instead of
'wiki'
- used 'users isolation' checkbox to replace the notion of workspace
Thanks,
Caty
>
> Note that we'll also need in 5.3+ a new right IMO: the right of
creating
a
> new wiki. For 5.2 we could just have a check in the wiki creation
wizard
page (for
example on the user having Admin rights on the main wiki). If
an
Admin wants to change that to allow everyone to
create a wiki he could
edit
> that page and change the check.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > * "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as now + Users Index for listing
local
users of the current wiki + Application Index for all apps of the
current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the current wiki
> * Wiki/Workspace Creation
>
> (please chose between Option A, B or C)
Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept of
workspaces and
come back to the concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much for the user. What we call "workspace"
can be seen as a configuration
for a
> wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >> Thanks,
> >> Caty
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages and
> >>>> disadvantages. On one hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki is a
> >>>> collaborative platform, not just a wiki, so people that need
> >>>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that XWiki
> isn't
> >>>> another boring wiki. On the other hand, people that are just > for
> >>>> a wiki that's nice to use and "not-ugly", might be
put off by yet
> >>>> another layer of complexity, and might drop XWiki from their list
of
> >>>> candidates. In other words,
it alienates even more the kind of
users
>>>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly complex.
>>>>
>>>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the other? It
would
be
first
>>> in line with our vision of
"enterprise collaboration", but I still
think
>>>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate any kind of users.
>>>>
>>>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask in the >>>> step of the distribution manager
what kind of usage do we want. In
the
>>> meantime, we can still polish the pages that will go in the
"workspaces"
>>> flavor.
>>>
>>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in 5.2, unless we have
really
>>> good backwards compatibility and a
flavor for a simple wiki for
textual
>>> collaboration.
>>
>> I hope the above allays your fears :)
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
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