Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Introduce the notion of Nested Documents

On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote: I'm not sure about this statement. My feeling is that many users understand spaces as "folders" (they make the analogy with the file system). Moreover, whenever we display a space in the XWiki UI we use the folder icon, so we encourage the users to make this analogy. What's the difference at a *conceptual* level between the notion of parent/child we have right now and the notion of nested documents you propose? I don't see it. You even use "parent" and "child" words below to explain the "nested" notion. The word "nested" sounds very technical to me. I don't know about French, but in my native language the translation for "nested" is not a commonly used word, unlike parent and child. It seems easier to me to explan to a user that a document can have a parent document and some child documents (the parent / child relationship) then to explain them that a document can be "nested" inside another document and can "nest" other documents too. You mentioned JCR on the next paragraph. Are JCR nodes identified by the position (path) in the tree? I think we should make a distinction between the way we identify a document and the way we access that document. I like the fact that currently when you change the parent of a document the document identifier (reference) stays the same. > In JCR[1], there is only one concept: the "node". A node can have a > content, and a list of child nodes. In XWiki, documents could become a kind > of nodes, and we do not need spaces anymore. > If we don't have space anymore, we could ask ourselves: "How the rights > will be propagated to the children documents? How do we distinguish rights > applied to the documents and the rights applied to the children?" > I think the easiest solution is to inherit the rights from the parent to > the children, unless an object prevent it. We already have this kind of > mechanism with XWikiRights and XWikiGlobalRights. XWikiRights would be > applied for the current document, and XWikiGlobalRights for the document and > its children. > But changing the XWiki model is a lot of work, that we don't have time to > achieve for 7.2. So we propose to make it step by step. > The first step is to change the UI to hide the notion of space to the > users. Concretely, each time a user wants to create a page called `A`, we > actually create the document `A.WebHome`. So any child of this page would > be created in the `A` space, like `A.Child`. But this child would be in a > space too, so it would be `A.Child.WebHome` actually. I find this 'A.WebHome' thing too complex. Look at the document hierarchy tree http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Document+Tree+Macro#HD… . We can hide the spaces already by relying on the parent / child relationship. > Then, when we display the `A.WebHome` page, we remove all mentions to the > `WebHome` name. In the UI, it will just be presented as the document `A`. > This is a good point, knowing the fact that the term `WebHome` have no > sense for the user, neither in English or in other languages. > Again, these changes are only for the UI. For the applications, it is the > developer's job to decide if the app will create documents like > `Document.WebHome` or basic documents just as before. > The question of what to do with AWM comes up. When a user creates an entry, > should it be a new-kind-of-document (`AppSpace.Entry.WebHome`) or an > old-kind-of-document (`AppSpace.Entry`)? The first option is good for > consistency and for the new possibilities it offers, but the second is > better for retro-compatibility. And the question will be the same for all > existing applications that create pages. I believe we should answer these > questions on a case-by-case basis and deserve their own mail threads. > This proposal also implies to change some macros, like the {{space}} one, > and some panels. But I believe there is no blocking-point there. > Finally, after these steps are accomplished in 7.2 and polished until the > end of the 7.x cycle, we will refactor the XWiki model (something we dream > about for years). > To sum up, the idea we propose is: > On the short run: > > - Hide the notion of space in the UI. > > - Hide the `WebHome` name in the UI. > > - When a user creates a page from the UI, it actually creates a space with > a WebHome. > > - Remove the current parent/child mechanism which is outdated (and > confusing) compared to the new hierarchy. > On the long run: > > - Remove the notion of space in the model, and replace it by "nested > documents". > > - Tune the rights system to inherit rights from parents to children. > Of course, we can discuss the technical details and the implementation > strategies. But for now, we need to know if you accept the general idea > (nested documents). I'm not convinced. I don't see why we should drop the parent/child relationship in order to introduce something similar but more complex. Thanks, Marius > Thanks, > > Guillaume D. > > [1] JCR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_repository_API_for_Java > -- > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com) > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > Committer on the XWiki.org project > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs