19 Sep
2013
19 Sep
'13
11:54 a.m.
2013/9/19 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
On Sep 19, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau <
gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
subwikis
Yes, and so it is already inconsistent with the Home menu, whether or not
we implement the Denis suggestion...
2013/9/19 Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
>
> On Sep 19, 2013, at 10:21 AM, "Guillaume \"Louis-Marie\"
Delhumeau" <
> gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>
>> +1, I like this idea.
>>
>> Anyone else?
>
> The only downside is that it's not very logical with the rest of the
menus
which use
the format: "<prefix>:<name>".
For example: "Space: <spacename>" or "Page: <pagename>".
It is already the case when you are in the main wiki and you have (in my current proposal).
No, your proposal doesn't touch "Space: <spacename>" or "Page:
<pagename>"…
Thanks
-Vincent
> If we were to remove "Space:" and
"Page:" prefixes then I'd be +1. Right
> now I'm more +0.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> 2013/9/18 Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu>
>>
>>> Looking at the screenshots, I was wondering if we shouldn't use the
same
>>> "HOME" label for the single
wiki case, since the wiki name has no real
>>> meaning, and it could became the home of a workspace environment, or
of
> a
>>> multiwiki farm. This would make it more consistent over time, than
> having
>>> the "Wiki: xwiki" changing to "HOME" when a subwiki is
created. I am
> only
>>> talking about the menu label here, not the content.
>>>
>>> WDYT ?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
<
>>> gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You can see some screenshots in the JIRA:
>>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9475
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> LM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/9/18 Fabio Mancinelli <fabio.mancinelli(a)xwiki.com>
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie"
Delhumeau
>>>>> <gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Indeed, the proposal A was based on
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/PortalMenuinstead
>>>>>> of
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu
> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then I suggest to call your proposal: E.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me recap:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Proposal A : Tiny "Home menu".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Proposal B : XWiki right side menu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Proposal C : Wiki crowded menu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Proposal D : Add a menu on the top-left logo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Proposal E : The complete "Home menu" proposed by
Caty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I like both B and E.
>>>>>
>>>>> I liked E because it keeps the left area the same. Since all the
wikis
>>>>> are equal, so it should be
the area for manipulating it. But since
the
>>>>> main wiki is "more
equal" than the others, it's good to show it. I
>>>>> understand the problem of E but I cannot think of another place
where
>>>>> to put this menu.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I don't like of E is just the "home" label.
>>>>> Home will become too overloaded. Every wiki has a home, now with
that
>>>>> menu there will be a home
which is the home of the main wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> I cannot think of a better alternative besides "Main" that
suffers
of
>>>>> the same problem (since every
wiki has a Main space).
>>>>> Maybe calling it "XWiki" can really be a possible
solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Fabio
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About E:
>>>>>> Some issues IMHO:
>>>>>> - The amount of menus is not the same when you are in the home
wiki
>>> and
>>>>>> when you are in the subwiki.
>>>>>> - Do we really need to have a direct access to the documents,
the
>>> users
>>>>> and
>>>>>> the applications of the home wiki when you are in the subwiki?
Can't
>>> it
>>>>> be
>>>>>> confusing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2013/9/12 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac(a)gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Vincent Massol <
vincent(a)massol.net
>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You forgot one proposal which I like:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> == Proposal D ==
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Generalize the XWiki home (the logo at the top left)
>>>>>>>> * When you click on the logo you get to the home of the
current
>>> wiki
>>>>>>>> * The proposal is about generalizing that feature to
allow
>>>> navigating
>>>>>>>> either to the wiki home, to the main wiki or to the list
of other
>>>>> wikis
>>>>>>>> * It could be done by showing a menu arrow when the mouse
hover
>>> over
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> logo and when the mouse moves over the arrow, show a menu
with
>>> first
>>>>>>> entry
>>>>>>>> = "Main Wiki" (or "Home Wiki" if you
prefer) and a second entry
>>> with
>>>>>>> "Wiki
>>>>>>>> Index" for example.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I like with this is that the user is already used to
use the
>>>>> logo as
>>>>>>>> a way to navigate to the home of wiki.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> -Vincent
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guillaume Louis-Marie
Delhumeau <
>>>>>>>> gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi developers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tuesday evening, after trying to fix all issues that
integrate
>>>>>>> Workspace
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> XE made, I had a bit of time to work on this JIRA:
>>>>>>>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9341 "Menu
improvements when
>>>>>>>> Workspaces
>>>>>>>>> activated".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The idea was to quickly implement the Caty's
proposal for M2
>>>> (which
>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> scheduled for the day after). I made it and I sent a
pull
>>>> request. I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> also sent a mail to Vincent to show him my work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> == Proposal A ==
>>>>>>>>> There is some screenshots (Proposal A):
>>>>>>>>> Logged as admin:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png
>>>>>>>>> Not logged as admin:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu-non-admi…
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can get it from this commit:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/8c1c1bac2cde30f9024525e50249…
>>>>>>>>> (except that
I have changed the wiki icon for this screenshot)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I just want to link again the 'Home Menu' full
proposal
>>>>>>>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In your screenshot is:
>>>>>>> * Home
>>>>>>> ** Administer Main Wiki
>>>>>>> ** Wiki Directory
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What it was proposed:
>>>>>>> * Home
>>>>>>> ** Administration
>>>>>>> ** Wikis Index
>>>>>>> ** ....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Administer Main Wiki" was proposed as:
>>>>>>> - "Administration"
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> - "Administer Home" / "Administrate
Home"
>>>>>>> depending if you were located in Home or in the (sub)wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We though this menu was confusing and not consistent
with the
>>>>> current
>>>>>>>> menus:
>>>>>>>>> - Why do we have a link to the *main wiki*
administration when
>>> we
>>>>> are
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> (sub)wiki? Does it make sense?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an administrator I think it has sense to be able to
administrate
>>>> both
>>>>>>> the current (sub)wiki you are visiting and also the home
(mainwiki).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Why do we have the main wiki (called Home) in
the left of the
>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>> wiki, space and page? The fact that there is
actually a "main"
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>> "sub" wikis is only due to the
implementation. We could imagine,
>>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> future, a new implementation where there is no
distinction
>>>> between
>>>>>>>> "main"
>>>>>>>>>> and "sub", but where we have an
independent "system" that allows
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>> to create and manage their wikis. Then, it seems
better to call
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> menu
>>>>>>>>>> "System" or "XWiki".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The "main" and "sub" is transformed
in "home" and "wiki". The menu
>>>>>> displays
>>>>>>>> the hierarchy: Home > Wiki > Space > Page and
is also consistent
>>>> with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> way our cascading works for our preferences (rights,
etc.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - When we don't have the admin right on the main
wiki, we only
>>>> have
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> single item in this menu, meanwhile wiki, space
and page has
>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> content.
>>>>>>>>>> It does not look good.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the proposal there is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
>>>>>>> Although this is not
currently implemented, the idea is that we
>>> could
>>>>> also
>>>>>>> list for example the "Users Index" a.k.a the
"User Directory"
>>>>> (especially
>>>>>>> since workspaces have only global users and the directory is
located
>>>> in
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> main wiki). In the proposal I've used " ***
Index" in order to
have
>>>> a
>>>>>>>> consistency between the index/directory applications
naming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the idea is that even if now there is only one entry
in the
>>>>> submenu,
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> could have more entries (if they are related to the
Home
>>>> (mainwiki)).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - If you are in the main wiki, you have
"Administer main wiki"
>>>>>> twice:
>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>> in the Home menu, once in the Wiki menu.
>>>>>>>>>> - The left menu has too many items.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are on the main wiki, the menu changes from
>>>>>>>> * Menu in the (sub)wiki
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> * Menu in the Home (mainwiki)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeM…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The left menu contains items related to 'spatial
organization of
>>>>> content'
>>>>>>> inside XWiki (wikis, spaces, pages)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> == Proposal B ==
>>>>>>>>> Vincent thought it was not good enough to be
integrated in
>>> 5.2M2,
>>>>> so we
>>>>>>>>> started to iterate until having this proposal:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png(pro…
>>>>>>>>> B).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why putting this menu to the right side? It's
because, on the
>>> left
>>>>>>> side,
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> have Wiki/Space/Page, where you have actions that you
can
>>> actually
>>>>>>>> achieve
>>>>>>>>> on these Wiki, Space and Page. Actions like
"Administer",
>>> "Delete"
>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> "Rename". The XWiki menu does not provide
actions like that, it
>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> provides some shortcuts to navigate thought the
wikis. It's
>>> more a
>>>>>>>> "System"
>>>>>>>>> menu, like the Profile menu, or the Register action.
That's why
>>> we
>>>>> put
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> there. Moreover, it make the left menu smaller, which
is less
>>>>>>> confusing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't like this proposal because is breaking the
content
>>>> organization
>>>>>>> hierarchy: home > wiki > space > page.
>>>>>>> You can consider our current menu to be composed of
"Content ||
>>> User".
>>>>> The
>>>>>>> "Content" part allows you to create new content and
to see your
>>>>> location in
>>>>>>> the content hierarchy. The right menu is dedicated to User
related
>>>>> actions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also I don't like that it uses the name XWiki. Users want
to
>>> customize
>>>>>>> their instance and not even show it's running on XWiki,
making it
>>>> their
>>>>>>> own.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> == Proposal C ==
>>>>>>>>> We had also this idea:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png(proposal…
){kind=link}
>>>>>>>>> But we
didn't like it, because the "Wiki Directory" and the
>>> "Main
>>>>> Wiki"
>>>>>>>>> link are not related to the current wiki, meanwhile
actions like
>>>>>>>>> "Administer", "Index" or
"Delete" are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Crowded and serves as a double function.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> After having created the proposal B, I asked Vincent:
"What
>>>> should I
>>>>>>> do?
>>>>>>>> Do
>>>>>>>>> I commit it, without asking to the community?".
He said yes,
>>>>> because he
>>>>>>>>> wanted to have something to show to the community
that can still
>>>> be
>>>>>>>> changed
>>>>>>>>> for the RC1, and he applied the pull request.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, let me list again the 3 proposals we have:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A - "Home" menu (Caty's proposal):
>>>>>>>>> Current implementation:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png
>>>>>>>>> Mockup with the new skin:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/PortalMenu/Men…
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> B - "XWiki" right menu:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> C - Add actions to the "Wiki" menu:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I propose to start a thread where you can all give
your opinion,
>>>>>>>> regarding
>>>>>>>>> one of these proposals, and you can also bring new
ideas. We
>>> must
>>>>> have
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> consensus for the RC1!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 0 for proposal A (the left menu is too heavy).
>>>>>>>>> +0 for proposal B (not perfect IMHO).
>>>>>>>>> -1 for proposal C.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, my vote goes to Ver. A, but the way it was proposed:
>>>>>>>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Wiki / (sub)wiki)
>>>>>>> * Home
>>>>>>> ** Administration
>>>>>>> ** ---
>>>>>>> ** Wikis Index/Directory
>>>>>>> ** Documents Index
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Home/mainwiki)
>>>>>>> * Home
>>>>>>> ** Watch Home
>>>>>>> ** Administer Home
>>>>>>> ** ---
>>>>>>> ** Wikis Index
>>>>>>> ** Documents Index
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Caty
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