6 Jul
2016
6 Jul
'16
11:32 a.m.
On 06 Jul 2016, at 11:24, Thomas Mortagne
<thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
I don't think you understood what I mean. XWiki is not the only
software out there that allows sending mails. If you have your own
SMTP server then you can just use any mail client to send mails trough
it, not need to request a myxwiki.org wiki for that.
Indeed I had misunderstood :) Good point.
Thanks
-Vincent
On 06 Jul 2016, at 11:15, Thomas Mortagne
<thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
I think they do because the mail sender api requires PR and on a farm you don’t get it.
And if they want to use java mail they need groovy which also requires PR.
Do you see a way for them to send mail without PR?
> On 06 Jul 2016, at 10:54, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06 Jul 2016, at 10:31, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>> IMO ideally we should have <current wiki> -> <main wiki> for
each
>>> configuration property, not all or nothing. Exactly like standard
>>> XWikiPreference based configuration properties.
>>
>> This is what we have, it’s already per-property.
>>
>>> As for the 1 vs 2 I really see no reason to forbid overwriting part of
>>> the configuration in his own wiki for use cases like myxwiki.org for
>>> example.
>>
>> The question is: Do we really want local admins on myxwiki.org to be able to use
their own SMTP servers? I guess with ours we could configure some anti-spamming techniques
to prevent myxwiki users from spamming people. At least we would have the mail logs in our
SMTP server when some third party decides to blacklist us.
>
> 1) The SMTP server is not the only thing you can setup there (for
> example it's interesting to change the default from mail address for
> you wiki). But you might still want to use your own SMTP server for
> you wiki (becauseou have a SMTP server which provide some analysis of
> the mails, storage, etc.).
So we could easily decide to use the local wiki only for some properties if we want.
> 2) I don't see the relationship with spam. The only thing really
> important for spam is who is allowed to send mail, not really who is
> allowed to choose the SMTP server. Allowing someone to configure his
> own SMTP server actually only decrease the load on the main SMTP
> server and the chance of it being used for spam in case it's
> overwritten.
I explained the relationship in the previous mail. In short: controlling the SMTP server
allows you take some actions/monitor mails.
They don't need XWiki to send mail trough their own SMTP server. And
>> again what would be blacklisted is this other SMTP server so we don't
>> care.
>
> Indeed, good point. I was thinking about myxwiki.org being blacklisted but you’re
right, there’s no reason for myxwiki.org to be blacklisted; it’s not the one sending the
mail.
>
> So I’m still in favor of option 2. Anyone strongly in favor of option 1? I’d like to
start modifying the code soon so please reply asap.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>> PS: I’m playing the devil’s advocate (trying to represent Denis ;)) because
I’m also preferring option 2.
>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>> -Vincent
>>>>>
>>>>>> But I don't mind too much getting rid of the two [Backward
compatibility] steps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:56 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-13546
("Error in the log when sending a mail through the Mail API”). One way to fix it
would to always look for the Mail.Config page in the main wiki instead of in the current
wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually the current algorithm is the following when looking
up a mail configuration property:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * <ul>
>>>>>>> * <li>Look in Mail.MailConfig in the current
wiki</li>
>>>>>>> * <li>[Backward compatibility] Look in (current
space).XWikiPreferences in the current wiki</li>
>>>>>>> * <li>[Backward compatibility] Look in
XWiki.XWikiPreferences in the current wiki</li>
>>>>>>> * <li>Look in the xwiki properties file</li>
>>>>>>> * </ul>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also need to implement
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12435 (“Use the Main Wiki Mail Configuration if not
overridden at the subwiki level”):
>>>>>>> “
>>>>>>> Right now when sending a mail in a subwiki, the configuration
is taken from that subwiki's Mail.MailConfig document.
>>>>>>> In a non-farm use case, it's a pain to have to configure
SMTP settings for each subwiki.
>>>>>>> It would be better to look into the main wiki's mail
configuration when there's no overridden config at the subwiki's level.
>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I can see 2 options.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Option 1: Drop support for looking for configuration in
subwikis
>>>>>>> ========
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Rationale: there are few use cases that require overriding
the mail config in a subwiki
>>>>>>> * Potential issue: if we stop looking for *.XWikiPreferences
or for <current wiki>:Mail.Config then we won’t migrate configurations but always
use the config from the main wiki. So backward compat is theoretically broken.
>>>>>>> * But it’s likely that the config in subwikis is the same as
the config from the main wiki anyway. It’s also likely that if a subwikis smtp server is
configured, then the main wiki is also configured. So it could be acceptable with a
message in the Release Notes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Option 2: Continue supporting overriding in subwikis
>>>>>>> ========
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Stop bundling Mail.Config for subwikis and modify the
config algorithm to be:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * <ul>
>>>>>>> * <li>Look in Mail.MailConfig in the current
wiki</li>
>>>>>>> * <li>[Backward compatibility] Look in (current
space).XWikiPreferences in the current wiki</li>
>>>>>>> * <li>[Backward compatibility] Look in
XWiki.XWikiPreferences in the current wiki</li>
>>>>>>> * <li>Look in Mail.MailConfig in the main
wiki</li>
>>>>>>> * <li>Look in the xwiki properties file</li>
>>>>>>> * </ul>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve discussed it quickly with Denis who prefers option 1
since he even sees the ability to configure the smtp server at the wiki level a potential
issue (bypassing the farm admin).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally I’m hesitating and I’d hate to remove the local
override and then find some use cases where we need it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> -Vincent