15 Sep
2015
15 Sep
'15
3:23 p.m.
Hi Guillaume,
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Caty,
thanks for your message. Please see my answers below.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The hard-drive is the wiki not the Main space. Or, if you want to be
precise, the entire farm is the hard-drive, a wiki is a partition on
that hard-drive and a space is a folder on a partition. The Main space
is just one of the top level "folders". Blog, XWiki, Sandbox are also
at the top level. And you can create new top level "folders". When you
access XWiki you get redirected to the Main space by default but
someone may want the Blog space to be opened by default.
Hi,
The current behavior was reached after many discussions.
I understand. However, I only got the time to actually try and test XE 7.2
last week. And based on what Edy said, I'm not the only one who was
surprised by the current behavior :-)
Currently the concept of main wiki is expressed
as the 'home' icon, but is
not tied to a particular space. This is something we preserved and is
flexible enough for users with custom content to change the location of the
homepage or assigned a different space, for a different subwiki.
I understand this. I'm not questioning the current behavior, but the
underlying assumption. Given the new paradigm we're implementing with
nested spaces, why would an user want to change the location of the
homepage? To me, it's like saying that you would want the top level folder
on your computer to be something else than the hard drive itself. I don't
understand why that would be useful.
Do you have specific use cases in mind that I might be missing (other than
"this feature existed before")?
Also we needed to showcase differently spaces that are top level, vs. pages
inside the Main space, while having the limited
number of exceptions
created for the breadcrumb.
I think there are 2 separate problems here:
1. Where should we put all of the pages that are
currently in the "Main"
space if we decide that not all of them deserve to be top-level pages
Pages from the Main space are not top level. Main is top level, and
Main is on the same level with Blog, Sandbox and XWiki. Check the
document index tree. I have the feeling you're making a confusion.
2. Making it possible to have top-level pages in a
coherent manner
For 1., pages in the Main space could stay where they are for now. "Main"
would be the legacy space where we put useful tools for the management of
your wiki.
I'm discussing the answer for 2. below.
Also I wouldn't like that all the URL contain the word 'Main' Imagine that
besides the 'xwiki/bin/view/' we would
need to also contain the homepage
space?
My very point is that the home page wouldn't (shouldn't?) need to be
"Main". It would be "". IE, there would be nothing in the URL to
reflect
it. It would be a representation of the wiki itself.
I understand that technically this is not feasible right now and that we
*need* to have a specific page be the home page, which is the role played
by Main.WebHome. What I'm saying is that with the new system, I'd rather
have *.../xwiki/bin/view/WebHome => **.../xwiki/bin/view/ *would be the
whole wiki. That level would be the top level space (which is exactly what
has been implemented by the way). Do you see what I mean?
Although we have a convention that a certain page
is displayed as
homepage, this is not needed to be in the URL. 'home' icon is a link for
the homepage, not a physical location. Currently the 'Main' space can
contain pages useful for the display of the homepage, but is an 'optional'
space.
What I' suggesting is precisely that the home page be its own document at
the very top of the hierarchy, ABOVE what is currently known as
Main.WebHome. This is why while the user is on this page, she should see
only the home icon.
Is this making what I mean clearer? I'm just suggesting we push things one
step further in the direction that has already been established.
Thanks,
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
context
simply
in
homepage
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/DocumentLifecycle#HByusin…
whether
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thanks for the explanation. Please see my feedback below.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
homepage
Hi,
Yes, "this is not a bug, it's a feature!" :) I had documented it in a
small
paragraph [1] (see the note) but did not feel it
was worthy to be
mentioned
> in the release notes. Please feel free to rephrase if needed.
>
> It's not specifically about "Main", but about the current wiki's
(and
"Main.WebHome" is the default homepage that can be changed from
administration).
Does this feature (changing the home page) still makes sense in the of nested spaces? What is the point to define the
home page as
".../A/B/C"
when based on the new system, "C" is a
sub-sub page?
To me, with nested spaces the home page is always the same and cannot be
changed. You may want to add a redirect, but this doesn't change the fact
that the top page is the same.
> The effort is to try to avoid the situation where a regular user lands
on
> the homepage of the wiki (just accessed the
wiki or maybe he clicked
the
logo) and
wants to create a document. He enters the title and presses
"create". Obviously his intention was to create a page, and, more often
than not (IMO at least), his actual intention was to create a top level
document and not a child document of the wiki's current homepage.
I agree with this. However, in that case, shouldn't the home page be *https://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/* instead
of
*https://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/Main/* ?
Using short URLs, you could even have the home page under *https://
<server>/
*and then subpages at *https://<server>/A, **https://<server>/A/B* and
so
on. This would be in line with what most CMS do
and it would fix your
issue: any page created from the home is a sub-page at the expected
level.
Image the homepage gets changed to "Some.Deep.Document.As.Homepage".
> Without this "trick", a regular user would end up, by mistake IMO (and
by
using the
"next-next-next" mindset), creating the document
"Some.Deep.Document.As.Homepage.NewDocument".
As I said above, I actually think we should remove this feature in the
context of nested spaces.
> Even if the homepage remains the default one, I see no logical reason spamming
all the new documents with the "Main" prefix, the result being
an
artificially deeper hierarchy and longer URL.
Agreed. As mentioned above, ideally we'd remove it.
> If a user really intended to create a document as a child of the > (rare usecase IMO), he has all the tools in
the UI to simply do so.
>
> I agree that it's a minor consistency dent, but IMO the benefit
justifies
it.
I don't quite agree that it's minor. One of the implied goals of nested
spaces is to be able to have consistent URL naming (I know exactly where
page *https://<server>/A/B/C *is). Having a special case for Main breaks
this.
Similarly, when on the home page on the main wiki, I don't understand why
the breadcrumb shows both the "home" icon and "Home" text. Why keep
both
when the icon would be enough?
Thanks,
Guillaume
WDYT? (interested in more opinions on this since I've already had 2
eyebrows raised on this topic :) )
Thanks,
Eduard
---------
[1]
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <
guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
> Hi Devs,
>
> I started trying out XE 7.2 (SNAPSHOT from around 12:30 today) and I
was
> very impressed, the changes look quite
good!
>
> While playing with it, I had a question about how the "Main" space is
> handled. Here's what I did: from .../xwiki/bin/view/Main/, I clicked
the
> "create" button and created a sub
page, then a sub-sub page. Here's
what
> I
> > got:
> >
> > - .../xwiki/bin/view/SubPage/SubSubPage
> >
> > Although I was expecting this:
> >
> > - .../xwiki/bin/view/Main/SubPage/SubSubPage
> >
> > So I was wondering whether this was the expected behavior, and it
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> had been discussed before?
>
> Congrats & Thanks,
>
> Guillaume
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>
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