31 Jul
2013
31 Jul
'13
10:19 a.m.
BTW, I also need to know if we only integrate "Workspaces" in XE, or if we
integrate the whole XEM in XE (workspace + wiki-manager + app manager)? Do
we want to keep XEM in our base products or do we want to have only one
product (XE)?
2013/7/31 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com>
I am not again to see the "wiki" term as the
whole system and to call
subwikis "workspaces" (if it is a better word), as long as we do not have
both concepts of subwikis and workspaces.
Please send your votes ;)
Louis-Marie
2013/7/30 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com>
Hi everyone!
I vote for B.
I think we should completely *drop the notion of workspaces* and *only
have the notion of "subwikis"*. During the creation wizard, we just add
an option "use the global users only" that the user can enable or not (it
should be enabled by default). So there is no type.
Then we drop the WikiManager and the WorkspaceManager UIs, and we create
*a new unified one to manage all the subwikis*.
On the wiki index, we could show all the wikis where the user have the
"view" right. All others wikis will be hidden for him (I think it is the
use case of myxwiki.org).
In this way, everything is more simple and both the use case of current
wiki farm and workspaces are supported.
Thanks,
Louis-Marie
2013/7/30 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi Caty,
See below.
On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu(a)xwiki.org>
wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>
>>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2 some days ago,
there's
>> this time:
>>>>
>>>> "
>>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home page - Caty +
>> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but he's
going to
>> work full time on XWiki development and
especially on UI aspects
from now
>> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need
you! :)
>>>> "
>>>>
>>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having
Workspaces
>> integrated in the default XAR. Thus
I'm sending this email to ensure
we all
>> agree about this.
>>>>
>>>> The rationale is:
>>>>
>>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki (standalone
>> version or install the default XAR) they get to see the power of
XWiki.
One
>> of the very important differentiator of
XWiki vs other
wikis/solutions is
>> our multi-tenancy feature and most of
people downloading and
installing
>> XWiki don't see it.
>>>>
>>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the committers
mostly
>> polish the default which doesn't
include those. The UIs of XEM/Wiki
Manager
>> need polishing. Having them in default
will ensure that we take them
into
>> account and make them first class
citizens when we develop.
>>>>
>>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements required to
>> integrate this by default:
>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki
>>>>
>>>> Here's my +1
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive XWiki.
Without
>>> multi-wiki features, it still looks
like a wiki, but if the homepage
>>> changes from a "welcome to your wiki" page to a "here are
your
>>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki "becomes" something
else in
the
>>> eyes of our users. I used quotes
since nothing changes on the
inside,
>>> the multiwiki feature has been there
since the beginning, and the
single
>>> wiki mode can still be used.
>>
>> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The plan
is
that
>> the home page doesn't change. All
that changes for a first time user
>> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will have more entries (Add
Workspace
>> or Add Wiki or both, Caty is still
working on the proposal).
>>
>
> Proposals:
>
> * Changes to the Menu
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu
* "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots which
the
colibri skin, right?
* "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following
since we don't have any UI for them:
** Administration. I don't even know what it
means at the global
portal/system level
** All documents. Currently we don't have a
LT that displays all docs
from all wikis
** Applications Index. I don't see what you
would do in this one.
Listing all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure
it's needed
** Note: Users index should list all global
users
* I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that represents
a single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a menu entry to represent
the current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or "Portal" or
"Farm" or …,
i.e. something that represents the whole system and have only system-wide
actions in it.
After more thoughts I think it's ok for a first version to have the new
"Home" menu entry to represent the main wiki. However all subwikis menu
entries should have the same entries except for "Wiki Index" which should
only be in "Home".
In the future though, in the new model, we'll have a notion of System
(farm of wikis) and maybe we'll implement it differently than in a wiki.
But we can take care of this at that time… ;)
Right now the more important for me is to agree that we have only 1
concept: the notion of "Wiki" and to replace the notion of
"Workspace" just
by a checkbox in the wiki creation wizard:
"Allow creating local users" (which is unchecked by default).
Note that we'll also need in 5.3+ a new right IMO: the right of creating
a new wiki. For 5.2 we could just have a check in the wiki creation wizard
page (for example on the user having Admin rights on the main wiki). If an
Admin wants to change that to allow everyone to create a wiki he could edit
that page and change the check.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
* "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as
now + Users Index for listing all
local users of the current wiki + Application
Index for all apps of the
current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the current wiki
> * Wiki/Workspace Creation
>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
> (please chose between Option A, B or C)
Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept of
workspaces and
come back to the concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much simpler
for the user. What we call "workspace" can be seen as a configuration for a
wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only.
Thanks
-Vincent
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
>
>>
>>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages and
>>> disadvantages. On one hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki is a
>>> collaborative platform, not just a wiki, so people that need
>>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that XWiki
isn't
>>> another boring wiki. On the other
hand, people that are just
looking for
>>> a wiki that's nice to use and
"not-ugly", might be put off by yet
>>> another layer of complexity, and might drop XWiki from their list of
>>> candidates. In other words, it alienates even more the kind of users
>>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly complex.
>>>
>>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the other? It
would
be
>>> in line with our vision of
"enterprise collaboration", but I still
think
>>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate
any kind of users.
>>>
>>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask in the
first
>>> step of the distribution manager what
kind of usage do we want. In
the
>>> meantime, we can still polish the
pages that will go in the
"workspaces"
>>> flavor.
>>>
>>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in 5.2, unless we have
really
>>> good backwards compatibility and a
flavor for a simple wiki for
textual
>>> collaboration.
>>
>> I hope the above allays your fears :)
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
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