21 Jun
2007
21 Jun
'07
1:31 p.m.
On Jun 20, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:
I don't agree that much about the parallel between plugins and
xarlets..
The process of working with plugins and xarlets is in my view quite
different..
Most use cases will want the most important plugins already
installed but have the ability to activate/deactivate. The reason
is that applications will often base themselves on these plugins
and we want them as easy to install as possible.
Concerning xarlets they can be installed on top of the core XWiki..
so for me it's much easier to consider them out of the platform.
But in the end I think it shows that there are
- core components
- external components
Core compenents (plugins or xar, but most often plugins) are stuff
that you need to build upon.
External components (plugins or xar or gwt apps, but mostly xar or
gwt apps) are stuff that are mostly used by itself, by the app you
build
So I think we can discuss a lot about that organisation because in
the end both organisations are right..
However what I see in your current proposal is that we don't have a
repository for small external components.. we only have the "big
application" component..
In my proposal we have:
XWiki = Platform + Applications
where
Platform = Core (i.e. components + others) + Reusable components
(what you call external components I think)
What you want (I think) is:
XWiki = Core + External Components + Applications
meaning you'd like to remove the notion of Platform and instead show
Core at the top level:
xwiki/
|_ core/
|_ components/
|_ applications/
Personally I don't mind that much although I liked the dichotomy
Platform/Applications which was simple enough to explain I think.
For me Platform = any bit than can reused as is in an Application.
I don't think it's that good to put stuff like
the "Packager" app
or the "Document Template" app or the "FAQ" app in the core..
I wouldn't put it in the Core. But I would put it in the Platform.
neither I think it's good to put it in the
"big application"
repository.
Right.
I don't think this is true for plugins which you
prefer to have in
the core so that they are ready to use on any recent XWiki install.
Same applies to plugins. There are some that are Core plugins and
there are some that reusable plugins that can bundled in applications
but not needed in the core.
In order to close this proposal, I'd like to know what others think
about this remaining issue between Ludovic's vision and mine. I have
the feeling the issue is more a terminology issue than anything else
though.
Thanks
-Vincent
Ludovic
Vincent Massol a écrit :
On Jun 17, 2007, at 12:00 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:
--
Ludovic Dubost
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XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
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I'm giving an overall +1 to Vincent's proposal except for the
xarlets.
I feed that having the xarlets in the platform will either make
us end up with small applications in the platform, or have us mix
small and big apps in xwiki-applications.
I think we need xarlets outside but not in xwiki-applications.
So
1/ I agree with stephane xarlets should not be in the platform
2/ I agree with vincent that applications should be "big
packages" like watch, curriki, chrono, xem.. It does not means
they have to have java plugins but it means they deserve the
"product" or "application" name..
So maybe
xwiki-xarlets (small XWiki applications)
xwiki-products (product level XWiki applications)
The problem is that if you follow that logic you should also move
xwiki plugins out of the platform as plugins are reusable code in
the same manner xarlets are reusable UIs. Also, in the near future
a xwiki components would be able to package both xwiki pages and
Java code in a JAR so the distinctions between xarlets and plugins
will be blurred and they'll simply be components. A component will
be able to provide only code, UIs, or both. This means that all
the code and UIs that make the default wiki will be scattered into
various components.
So if we follow your logic that xarlets (and thus components) do
not belong to the platform (and I think they do) then we end up
with what I mentioned in my reply to Stephane:
xwiki/
|_ xwiki-core/
|_ xwiki-components/ (or whatever you want to call it)
|_ xwiki-applications/
But my preference currently goes to:
xwiki/
|_ xwiki-platform/
|_ xwiki-core/
|_ xwiki-components/
|_ xwiki-applications
i.e. platform = core + reusable components (where core will become
in the future a set of components itself and core will simply be a
list of components that go together, i.e. a packaging)
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
Vincent Massol a écrit :
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Any other feedback on this?
* So far we have Stephane and Sergiu who have answered.
* Sergiu said he was ok with the structure I proposed
* Stephane didn't quite agree and proposed something else to
which I replied (no new answer from Stephane yet ;)).
We need to make way to XEM and Watch so I'd like to start
implementing this ASAP. Please comment if you agree or don't
agree as it'll be too late once I start the work :)
Thanks
-Vincent
On Jun 12, 2007, at 6:36 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Note: This email supercedes all my other proposals on the SVN
> directory structure.
>
> The rationale for this mail is that we're starting to have lots
> of applications built on top of the xwiki platform: XWiki
> Enterprise (default wiki), XEM, Watch, Curriki, Chronopolys,
> etc. We need to accomodate them in our directory structure.
>
> Top level structure
> ===============
>
> /svnroot/xwiki/
> |_ xwiki-platform/
> |_ xwiki-applications/
> |_ xwiki-enterprise/
> |_ xwiki-enterprise-manager/
> |_ xwiki-watch/
> |_ curriki/
> |_ chronopolys/
> |_ xwiki-extensions/
> |_ xwiki-eclipse/
> |_ xwiki-concerto/
> |_ sandbox/
>
> where:
>
> * xwiki-platform is the xwiki platform on which all the
> applications are built.
> * xwiki-applications are applications that extend the platform
> with: skins, xwiki pages (XAR), plugins
> * xwiki-enterprise is the name of our previously known "default
> wiki" application.
> * xwiki-extensions are any other extensions of xwiki not
> fitting in xwiki-applications. For example the XWiki Eclipse
> integration, etc. I've put concerto there but I'm not sure what
> it'll look like.
>
> Definition of xwiki-platform
> =====================
>
> /svnroot/xwiki/xwiki-platform/
> |_ tools/
> |_ core/ (JAR)
> |_ plugins/ (JARs)
> |_ skins/ (ZIPs)
> |_ dodo/
> |_ finch/
> |_ albatross/
> |_ web/ (WARs)
> |_ gwt/
> |_ standard/
> |_ xarlets (XARs)
> |_ selenium/
> |_ blog/
> |_ calendar/
> |_ ...
>
> where:
>
> * tools/ contains tools used to build the platform and xwiki
> applications
> * xarlets/ contains independent xwiki apps (we need a word
> better than xarlets and different than applications which we
> should reserve for things like curriki, xwiki enterprise, xem,
> etc) that can be installed in any running xwiki app
> * In the future core/ will be replaced with:
> |_ components/ (JARs)
> |_ xwiki-model/
> |_ xwiki-storage/
> |_ ...
> * In the future web/ will be replaced with UI components (see
> the UI proposal for more)
>
> Definition of xwiki-enterprise/
> =======================
>
> /svnroot/xwiki/xwiki-applications/xwiki-enterprise/
> |_ wiki/
> |_ distribution/
> |_ distribution-test/
>
> where:
>
> * wiki/ contains the xar pages
>
> Generic definition of an xwiki-application/
> =================================
>
> /svnroot/xwiki/xwiki-applications/<app name>/
> |_ wiki/
> |_ web/ (optional)
> |_ plugins/ (optional)
> |_ skin/ (optional)
> |_ distribution/
> |_ distribution-test/
>
> For example for xwiki-watch/:
>
> /svnroot/xwiki/xwiki-applications/xwiki-watch/
> |_ wiki/
> |_ web/ (the gwt stuff)
> |_ distribution/
> |_ distribution-test/
>
> I think this pretty much includes everything we currently have
> in SVN.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>
>
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--Ludovic Dubost
Blog: http://www.ludovic.org/blog/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost AIM: nvludo Yahoo: ludovic
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