2 Nov
2011
2 Nov
'11
10:16 a.m.
Hi,
On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
it's fast and everyone knows it. Same for Builder and Generator. Foundry
doesn't convey that, true.
this is not our current practice for existing names.
"build" in the name and in this regards is similar
to "AppWithinMinutes"
which doesn't have any of these words either?
human-readable
names) don't have to be the same (same as Page Title vs Page
Names).
+1 for this as well.
Guillaume
Thanks,
On Oct 28, 2011, at 8:43 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:
> 2011/10/28 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
>
>> Hi Marius,
>>
>> On Oct 26, 2011, at 7:14 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
>>
>>> Hi devs,
>>>
>>> We need to decide on a technical name for the "Application Within
>>> Minutes", i.e. the name of the platform module and the name of the
>>> space that will hold the Application Within Minutes pages. For now I
>>> committed my code in xwiki-platform-applicationWithinMinutes and I
>>> used the "ApplicationWithinMinutes" space name but this is not
>>> consistent with the way we named modules and spaces so far. Do you
>>> have any suggestions?
>>>
>>> We could use simply xwiki-platform-application, but it collides with
>>> xwiki-platform-application-manager, and I don't think it's a good
idea
>>> to merge them. Is application manager still used? Is it going to be
>>> replaced by the extension manager?
>>
>> AFAIK the Application Manager was about defining an XClass for grouping
>> pages together and forming an application (with a version, description,
>> etc).
>>
>> The Extension Manager is independent of this, it's just about
>> installing/upgrading/removing extensions. An application is just one
type
of
>> extension.
>>
>> So Application Manager is still a valid notion and we need it. I can
think
>> of several use cases:
>> - Ability to list all applications in the wiki
>> - Ability to tell a user that the page he's editing is part of an
>> application and ensure that he really wants to modify the application
(which
>> may require some merging later on if he
upgrades the application)
>> - Ability to remove an application
>> - Ability to list applications in the Application Panel we discussed a
>> while ago (we talked about mapping an Application to a space but in
practice
>> it doesn't have to be limited to
that)
>> - Ability to export an application from the wiki as an extension and
>> publish it directly on extensions.xwiki.org. I envision a page
listing
all
>> applications with an export button next
to them.
>>
>> AppWithinMinute would need to use the Application Manager IMO so that
it
>> puts all pages it creates under an
Application descriptor.
>>
>> So yes while AppWithinMinutes and Application Manager could be grouped
>> together there's no reason not to keep them separate I think.
>>
>> So ….. here are some ideas:
>>
>> * xwiki-platform-application/ --> "Application" space, i.e. what
defines an
>> application (this is the current
Application Manager)
>>
>> Then we have several possibilities for "AppWithinMinutes":
>>
>> A) xwiki-platform-appwizard/ or xwiki-platform-application-wizard/-->
>> "Application Wizard" or Application space
>> B) xwiki-platform-appwithinminutes/ or
>> xwiki-platform-application-within-minutes/--> "Application Within
Minutes"
>> or Application space
>> C) xwiki-platform-appcreator/ or xwiki-platform-application-creator/
-->
>> "Application Creator" or
Application space
>> D) xwiki-platform- appgenerator/ or
xwiki-platform-application-generator
>> --> "Application Generator"
or Application space
>> E) xwiki-platform-appfoundy/ or xwiki-platform-application-foundry -->
>> "Application Foundry" or Application space
>>
>
> I don't have a strong opinion on the technical name of the component
module.
> However the name of the space used is more
than technical. It is the
> branding of the application so it's a very important choice that we make
> here.
>
> AppWithinMinutes is an important application for XWiki Enterprise as it
is
> the feature that will show all users that
XWiki's flexibility is
something
> that is also for them and that actually
brings great benefits without
being
> too complex for non tech users. We should
make sure we can communicate
well
> around this feature.
>
> There are no proposals that are not mentioning the notion of
"Application".
> I agree with that as we want to push the idea
of Application here more
than
> just pure form data.
>
> Now there is no proposal that says "App" and not "Application". I
think
> "App" is more fun. It's clearly identified in people's mind. And
it's
> shorter which makes the name less cumbersome.
>
> Now if we go this way we mostly have to discuss the suffix. In the
> "classical names", you've proposed Wizard, Generator, Foundry. You
could
> have added "Builder".
>
> Now all these names are a bit overused. True they are clear, but they
don't
> have a lot of originality. They also
don't convey the fact that the
building
of the
app is "fast".
I think they all convey this idea of "fast". You use a Wizard because
> That's where "AppWithinMinutes" is better. It's more original, it
conveys
the fast
aspect in it's name.
I agree it's more original.
We could also use the "Wiki" aspect of
our way of building app:
"WikiAppBuilder" or "WikiAppGenerator" or "WikiAppCreator".
For me there's a problem with these 2 ideas ("originality" and
"wiki"):
In no other module/component/space names/anywhere we use this notion of
"originality" nor "wiki" (that would be really overkill since
we're a
wiki…:)). So next time someone proposes "PowerfulWikiScheduler" instead of
"Scheduler" I don't see any reason we shouldn't accept it.
Does it also mean we need to rename existing applications/spaces so that
they are
more "original"?
> I believe it's very important that our App tool is different than
anybody
> else's App tool. So I'm:
>
> +1 for AppWithinMinutes
>
> I could be
>
> +0.5 for WikiAppBuilder or WikiAppCreator
>
> I'm -1 for the others which have no originality. I'm -2 for
"Application",
> I'm -2 for "Generator" or
"Wizard" (we don't generate an app, we create
or
build
it).
Why do you include "wizard" here: it doesn't contain either
"create" or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_(software)
"A software wizard or setup assistant is a user interface type that
presents
a user with a sequence of dialog boxes that lead the user through
a series of well-defined steps."
"Many web applications, for instance online
booking sites, make use of
the wizard paradigm to complete lengthy interactive
processes, sometimes
becoming similar to automated online assistants. Oracle Designer also uses
wizards extensively."
BTW this wikipedia page is also mentioning the word "Assistant". Thus
"ApplicationAssistant" is an option too.
>> BTW we should probably move to using spaces in Space names when they
are
>> compound names (for example:
"Annotation Code" rather than
"AnnotationCode")
>> since they are human-readable names and
not ids.
>>
>> I'm not sure about that. The use of space makes very ugly urls. If we
were
> to change our current policy toward space
naming (which is one work or
> closer to camel case), we probably should go the way of the CMSes which
is
app-within-minutes
I think URLs (which are technical names) and Space names (which are
I'm currently against app-within-minutes as a human-readable space name
(this
would mean "annotation-code", etc). For me this is a technical name
(especially starting with a lowercase letter).
I'd like to know what others think. If most
people think that
"AppWithinMinutes" or "App Within Minutes" is
fine then I won't oppose it.
I prefer camel cased space names. I'm +1 for AppWithinMinutes space
name and xwiki-platform-appwithinminutes module name.
Marius
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Thanks
-Vincent
> Ludovic
>
>
>> My preference goes to A) (the xwiki-platform-appwizard/ short form and
>> "Application Wizard" space name) since I think "Wizard" is
the most
well
> known
terminology for what "AppWithinMinutes" is.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
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