21 Feb
2018
21 Feb
'18
5:39 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 6:23 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
vincent(a)massol.net
vincent(a)massol.net
that?
in
> > >> skins
> > >>>> &
> > >>>>>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> > >>>>>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the
admin UI,
and
has
a
> > >> color theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, otherwise,
if
not
"What
confusing,
> > we
> > >>> can rephrase it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Caty
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks
> > >>>> -Vincent
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>> Caty
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks
> > >>>>>> -Vincent
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<
> > >> valicac(a)gmail.com>
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hi,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> As some of you know, in January we had another
session of
> usability
> > >>>> tests
> > >>>>>>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have
prioritized [1]
> some
> > >>>> issues
> > >>>>>>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+
Roadmaps.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create
a dedicated Logo
On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 3:43 PM, Ecaterina Moraru
(Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
skin /
The default logo will come from file system or the base skin or the new
page Vincent proposed. It will not be the current logo, but the default
logo.
I don't think we can remove the logo from the color themes. It is powerful
when you want to provide user/space/wiki diversity. But those cases are
advanced, so whomever is having such an advanced setup might need to know
what they are doing.
The "show where is coming from" idea is interesting.
Instead of "default logo" we could display the "current logo" with a
"Customize" button near it, and depending where this logo comes from, to
take the user to that logo attachment selector modal, either in the skin or
color theme, space, wiki, etc. Not sure how hard it is to implement and if
that behavior won't be again confusing, without explaining our
inheritance/priority logo selection mechanism.
Thanks,
Caty
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 3:32 PM, Marius Dumitru
Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
to
I don't get it. I thought the usability
problem was that it's not
straightforward
to *change* the logo. How is the proposed solution helping the user
change
the logo when the color theme he selected
specifies a logo? The user
still
> needs to go to the color theme to change the logo. Or to the skin, or the page
preferences, etc. The user still needs to know where all these
places where the logo can be defined are and check each of them to make
sure the logo he sets is not overwritten.
It doesn't fix the solution entirely, but allows the user to set his logo
as the default logo. We should try to remove the overwrites from the color themes and fallback on the default logo.
Overwriting the logo from
skin/color theme/space will still be possible, but this should be used
only
in advanced use cases.
Currently we are providing too many XWiki logos in the custom Color
Themes
(for example in the case of dark colors) and we
duplicate the logo in all
these places, forcing the user to know the priority order.
Currently there is no UI to change the default logo. You can only change
it
from the file system.
From the Administration, the user instead of changing the Skin logo, go
to
the CT. This could also be improved by: (A)
making sure the Skin logo is
as
easy to change as the one from CT, (B) maybe
change the order of
displayed
configurations from (Default Logo, CT, Icon
Themes, Skin) to (Default
Logo,
Skin, CT, Icon Themes) - this order would better
present the priority
order, but it would put on a lower place the CT change, which is quite
often and popular.
---
So for this proposal we had Thomas, Alex, Guillaume, Vincent, me agreed.
Marius, let me know if you have other questions / suggestions.
My worry is that if we don't remove the logo from the default color themes
then the users will complain that "they set the logo from the
Administration and it doesn't have any effect". Another solution is to show
what is the current logo in this new section and indicate where it comes
from (e.g. from color theme).
Thanks,
Caty
support
the
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> After talking to Caty we’ve defined the following Use Cases and
algorithm
for
selecting which logo to use:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1
>
> Note 1: In the near future we also need to implement Nested Pages > (i.e. inherit WebPreferences).
> Note 2: We need to decide where to store the user-defined system-wide
> default logo. I’m proposing to define a wiki page for that, somewhere
in
> > the XWiki space. One idea could be to have a XWiki.BaseSkin page on > main
wiki to hold base skin overrides (from the FS).
>
> Let us know what you think.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:30, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol < wrote:
>
>> Hi Caty,
>>
>>
>>> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol < >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> valicac(a)gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <
vincent(a)massol.net
> >
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi Caty,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo
can be
> > >> overridden
> > >>>>>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki
or page
> > level”.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Several questions:
> > >>>>>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do
you do >> Using a
>>>>>> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>>>>>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the
logo,
> >>>> which
> >>>>>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin
UI, > > i.e.
> > >>>>>> where is it materialized?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a
development
>
point
> >>>> of
> >>>>> view.
> >>>>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo
using
> > >> this
> > >>>>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default
logo > the
> > >> skin
> > >>>>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem.
This
way
> the
> > >>>> Color
> > >>>>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The description is technical I know, still there are so
many
ways
> in
> > >>>> XWiki
> > >>>>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is
welcomed.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it
were a
> > vote)
> > >>>> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other
ways
of
Theme
> >>>> changing the logo and it
adds yet another way on top of the
existing
> >> ones,
> >>>> making the situation even more complex…
> >>>>
> >>>> So for me we need to:
> >>>> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and
explain
> >> what
> >>>> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the
user
> >> would
> >>>> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or
not
> >> either?
> >>>> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new
Admin
> UI.
> >>>> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page
and
> > >> attach
> > >>>> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color
> and
> > >> adds
> > >>>> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin
OR
> add
> > an
> > >>> attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy
> technically
> > -
> > >> I
> > >>> guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
> > >>> Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can
be
> > >>> inherited / overridden by
the Color Themes.
> > >>
> > >> See my previous reply about this.
> > >>
> > >> So I now understand that your idea would be:
> > >>
> > >> Default system logo (Admin UI)
> > >> |_ Skin logo (Skin)
> > >> |_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki
> > >> |_ Space Skin logo (Skin)
> > >> |_ Space Color Theme logo
> > >>
> > >> In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT
has a
logo
>> defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin
defined
> and
> >> that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki the
> >> current wiki has a skin defined and it has a logo then use it,
> otherwise,
> >> if the default system logo is defined use it, otherwise, use a
default
> >> xwiki logo.
> >>
> >> However I don’t see why a Color Theme would inherit from the skin.
> What’s
> >> the rationale? What additional use cases does it provide?
> >>
> >
> > Well the use case is that I want to experiment with the colors and
see
> > > which one I like as the default colors. Also maybe I want to have
> > different
> > > Color Themes on some wikis / spaces.
> > > If the logos are inherited it's fine, I am not forced to attach the
> logo
> > > for every other ColorTheme available. I just the default logo once.
> > Again,
> > > nice if I want to change the logo, I just change it in one place, in
> > every other color theme that exists out there.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> See the list of use cases I started in the previous reply. Please
add
> > new
> > >> use cases if you see some that I have missed.
> > >>
> > >> Note: The other issue with the above is that we’re missing nested
> pages.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> -Vincent
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as
does
>> it
>>>> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom
skin?
> >>>> Using a color theme?"
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different
> Skin/CT
> >>> with a different logo for that level. If you think that is > > >> section
> > >>>> in
> > >>>>>>> Administration".
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Although we made some improvements in this area,
users still
> > struggle
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>>>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3
minutes). Plus
> there
> > >> is
> > >>>> a
> > >>>>>>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes
overriding.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo
section inside
the
>> Themes
>>>>>>> section of Administration
>>>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>>>>>> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me know what you think,
>>>>>>> Caty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
>>>>>> Tasks5/Prioritization/