9 Sep
2014
9 Sep
'14
3:41 p.m.
On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru
(enygma2002@gmail.com(mailto:enygma2002@gmail.com)) wrote:
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped
support for it, there is no
logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
-1 because:
A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples
of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what
they are using...
C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on
Windows Server 2003! (see below)
D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since
it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
More elaborate answer for point B):
You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported
anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support
it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its
successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history):
- Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004
- Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006
- Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010
- Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14,
2015 for Windows Server 2003.
So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop
support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose
dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Eduard
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
My vote goes to:
+1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
-1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
+1 to support IE8 for Colibri
My rationale:
- Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
modern browsers.
- Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
third-party JS dependency.
- We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
mention other companies)
- IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser
means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on
it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
pick Colibri
Thanks,
Caty
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > >
wrote:
even
with
this
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http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
wrote:
vincent(a)massol.net>
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
wrote:
> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
s/upgrade/apply/
> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, vincent(a)massol.net < wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com
(mailto:thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com)) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> IMO we should modify
>>>>>
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>>>>> with something like "we
support what Microsoft support". It's
simple
>>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why
the hell would we do what Microsoft
does
>>>> not ?).
>>>
>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
older versions.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream
support"
>>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
>>> since that's what we are talking about here.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to
make.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet…
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie"
Delhumeau
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
support it!)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means
not
IE9/10/11
>>>> >> only.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > See
>>>> >>
>>>> >> .
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor
does.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots
of
committers
>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
>>>> >>
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>>>> >> recent market share.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they
don’t seem
to show
>>>> >> similar data:
>>>> >> >> -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>>>> >> >> -
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>>>> >> >> -
http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to
support 80%
of users
>>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and
AFAICS includes:
to
>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
>>>> >> >> - FF latest
>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high.
However IE10
is less
>>>> >> high (probably because
those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded
to IE11)?
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Thanks
>>>> >> >> -Vincent
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net (
vincent(a)massol.net
>>>> >>
(mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
andreea.popescu(a)xwiki.com
>>>> >>
(mailto:andreea.popescu@xwiki.com)) wrote:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and
IE11" thread I’d
like to
>>>> >> propose
>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting
these versions
are:
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9
are still
widely used
>>>>> >> by
>>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently
choosing to update IE10 and
versions
>>>> >> IE11.
>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers
-> Desktop
Share by
>>>> >> Version)
>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85%
users and IE11
by 16.61%
>>>>> >> users.
>>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as
the older (IE8 -
people,
>>>> >> 20.85%
>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is
still
significant.
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed
to support
only the
>>>> >> latest version of each
browser, which is basically what we’re
doing except
>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is
that it takes time to support all
browsers and the
>>>> >> community can only do so
much. Companies offering paid services
on top of
>>>> >> XWiki could support the
other browser versions for their
customers.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different:
I’d like
that we
>>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of
because I
and
>>>> >> feel XWiki will be
successful if the majority of people can use
it without
>>>> >> problems.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
>>>> >>
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>>>> >> we were to support at
least the top 6 browser/versions we would
cover 70%
>>>> >> of the user base. For IE
this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
strangely
>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser
in market shares, way above most of the
others… Not
>>>> >> supporting it ATM would
mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
problems
>>>> >> supporting, say the top
10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,
if that’s
>>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5
browsers with
>>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose
that
we
try it
>>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a
burden
for us or
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>>>> >> it’s manageable.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for
that
>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version
for each
browser or
>>>> >> instead support the
highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for
the
>>>> >> marketshare approach.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Thanks
>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>
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>>>> > devs(a)xwiki.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thomas Mortagne
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
--
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